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Are there any private buyers out there who buy new cars? If so why - it seems to be a complete rip-off or am I missing something? Why pay £15,000 for a good family saloon when you can buy a much better used-car for the same money? Surely after 6 months the new car looks just as dirty as the used car.
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Are there any private buyers out there who buy new cars? If so why - it seems to be a complete rip-off or am I missing something? Why pay £15,000 for a good family saloon when you can buy a much better used-car for the same money? Surely after 6 months the new car looks just as dirty as the used car.
Agreed. As an example a recent family company car. Bought by the firm for 18k. Sold in mint nick after 2 years and 120k for 3500 quid.
14k for the joy of a new car. Plus of course they don't stay new for the whole 2 years anyway.
Why would a private owner put up with that?
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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Forgive me for stating the obvious but its people to whom the money is nothing. Example, friend of mine is a barrister and needed a car for the nanny. Ordered a Peugeot 307 and had it delivered, did not even go to the garage to see it before ordering, had seen a picture in the papers and thought it looked cute!
Just be grateful that someone is doing it and bearing all that depreciation for you.
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I've heard it argued that for small cars (Fiesta type size) the extended warranty and free servicing deals, if you can find tham, make it worth buying new. I'm not a small car person so I've no experience of whether this really works.
GJD
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Probably true that small mini cars are worth buying new as they don't usually take high miles, whilst the "lumps" are a steal at second hand prices. I can't ever imagine forking out nearly £30K for an Omega when you get an almost new one with about 20K on the clock for less than a third of that! There are of course exceptions, the marquees e.g. mercs and beamers seem to hold on to their value well, including the new minis. There are of course tax perks for businesses buying new cars, but when you think a new astra costs you over £10K there's a lot of choice in that range! Of course I suppose if money is no object, it would be nice to have a brand new car exactly to the spec and colour trim you require.
S.
_____________________________________
SVPworld (incorporating PSRworld)
www.svpworld.com
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Toad
Where's the problem? That comes out at 12p/mile depreciation. At a guess repair costs were low, so as far as the company's concerned it wasn't a bad deal. At least half the miles would have been under warranty, and if it came with an unlimited miles warranty so much the better.
I have bought both new and second hand. Last time I bought new. Discount through a broker, plus a cashback offer on the car, plus GM points. It would have cost as much to buy a 2yo through the dealer. Three years warranty, and I got the spec and colour I wanted, plus ABS which is rare second hand. I know it hasn't been crashed, trashed or thrashed. Service costs will be minimised. I won't be spending time or money fixing it. I won't worry about it breaking down when we are driving it.
Running cars cost money however you do it, and it suited me to do this deal. Yes, someone may get a 'good deal' when I sell it, but that's fine by me.
It's true that some expensive cars (but not all) can lose huge amounts very quickly, and they are not worth considering new for a private buyer. Certainly for the smaller, cheaper cars it's by no means so clear cut.
Regards
John S
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DB,
If you don't mind me pointing out there was a long and oft repeated discussion on this in the old BR.
The concensus as I recall was that all folks are different and what might be important to you, might be unimportant to others and vice versa.
There were, in the past, some rather more forcefully put opinions than so far presented on this thread, which resulted in the agreeement that a little more tolerance would not go amiss.
It distills down to its the new car buyers choice, and if their opinion is different from yours so be it, does not mean to say they are right and you are wrong, or indeed vice versa. Might I suggest you reflect on that.
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I'm with Thommo on this - long may people buy new. A few grand for driving it off the forecourt? That'll do nicely sir. Means some of us can get better value later.
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I agree too - if people with more money than sense don't mind paying £000's for the 'kudos' of having a new plate on their drive, good luck to 'em - more 'bargains' for the rest of us poor souls !.
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I'm with Thommo on this - long may people buy new. A few grand for driving it off the forecourt? That'll do nicely sir. Means some of us can get better value later.
I bought new, but you won't get any 'better value' off of me as I'm keeping the car it until it goes to the scraphead!
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I bought new, but you won't get any 'better value' off of me as I'm keeping the car it until it goes to the scraphead!
Thants the exception to my new car buyers are morons suggestion.
You buy a 106 for 5.5k keep it 15 years.
That's cheap motoring by any standards..
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Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
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The last car I sold (Cyd will know which one) fetched only 90 quid. BUT it only cost me 150 and I had it for over a year and did 20,000 miles in it including many memorable weekends away, e.g. at Le Mans. I wasn't planning on selling it but my first overseas posting forced the issue.
As it came with a second-car-in-bits the few replacement parts it needed were sourced by rummaging around in the shed. Fuel costs were admittedly higher than average as V8s aren't known for their frugality.
;-)
CMark
PS depending on where we end up next, I could be looking at my very first new car (owned by me) - Subaru Lagacy GT-B.
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I bought a new BMW 328 (pre-ordered, delivery was on launch day) in 1998 for £31,500. Sold it for £18,250 last year with 30k on the clock. Though the depreciation was large, the total running costs were one £110 service at 16k plus road tax after the first year - no tyres, no AA membership, no other service bills. I also got to claim some costs back from the taxman. It turned out that it was cheaper than taking a 320 as a company car.
I now run 3-4 year old cars instead, at today's prices they are pretty good value.
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I asked myself this question when my 9 year old Micra expired after 3.5 years of ownership. It was cheaper to ditch the car and buy another rather than get it repaired. I ended up buying a new Ford Ka. The advantages I could see were reduced servicing costs, 3 years warranty to protect against serious faults, no MOT for 3 years, a known history (not thrashed), and a car in nice condition. My last car was a Micra bought under the Nissan approved scheme, and it worked out expensive: almost a grand a year purchase cost i.e. comparable to new. What's more I had quite high servicing costs, including underbody welding, and several serious faults including the speedo going. So a new purchase is better than buying used from a main dealer for a small car. Used Ka's seem to cost a fortune too.
So far I am getting an average of 48 mpg from the little fella and I am not sure if a car that had been thrashed for a year or two would do this well. The official combined is 42 mpg.
A colleague who usually services his own car came to the same conclusion and bought a new Peugeot 206.
I guess that if you service it yourself, and can inspect the car before purchase to determine whether or not the engine has been thrashed, then buying a used car privately might be the way to go.
From what I saw, the non main dealers were selling used cars at the same price as the main dealers, but in poorer condition. (This was for Micras.)
As for a high end car, such as a Merc or a Beamer, I can only guess that it is kudos that drives new purchases. £60K on a car. Ouch.
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I buy new because
I want to
I can afford to
I import and save money
I sell my import after a year and get all my money back (yes, I do!)
I don't want someone else's cast off
I don't buy secondhand tv's, fridges, washing machines etc etc.
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First 5 reasons seem fair enough but to compare the depreciation of £13,000 on the BMW mentioned above with buying a second hand tv or fridge seems a bit odd! Each to his own I say!!
PhilW
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>>the depreciation of £13,000 on the BMW mentioned above with buying a second hand tv <<
I bought my TV secondhand, saving £1,800 - it lost 60% of its value in a year, really makes the Omega look good.
You could always reduce the argument to see what the real reasons are for people buying the cars they do. Such as: you have a 3 year old car, why not a 6 year old one? Why don't you buy secondhand trousers as they serve the same function as new ones?
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The Watcher,
You and FiF have got it absolutely right - it is simply a matter of choice.
Read the thread by Roland(try a search) on 'High mileage Bores' which sums up the differing opinions on this subject.
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I wouldn't buy new because..
1) Absolutely - as is your right, and we 2nd hand buyers all need you to.
2) Pre-requisite I would have thought.
3) Savings seem good on some cars - not worth the aggro (if you measure your time in cash terms) on others.
4) You can make money on brand new and second hand - I bought a Carrera in '91 - yuppies were offloading, sold it for a £1500 profit in '95. Buy an SL even on non-import and I'd be surprised if you couldn't make a bit.
5) Only a problem if you can tell with the naked eye - balance this against the chance of delivery niggles on a new one - not exactly unknown.
60 Those items are so cheap they're more disposable.
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>>>Why pay £15,000 for a good family saloon when you can buy a much better used-car for the same money?
A few years ago I bought a used audi for about his sort of money. It has done well but it will soon be replaced by a brand new Seat Leon for about the same amount of money.
The Seat has the same toys as my Audi, the same engines and for my money I get a brand new one. Aside from badge snobbery it wasn't much of a descision to make.
btw. You loose driving a secondhand car of of a dealers forecourt too.
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Yes, you make a very good point. Unless you buy old second hand or unpopular \ large second hand cars, you still lose money on them.
To re state, Im saving £5k on an import, highly spec'd 320d SE. I could sell it new unregistered and make a conservative £1500 - £2000 now or, sell it in 12 months and get back what I paid for it.
Totally agree its everyone's right to buy as they wish. Strangely, I wish I only had a desire to buy second hand! Why is that?
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Buy new because there is no option. We need a big MPV and have settled on an Alhambra TDi. All the cars under 2 years old have been got by the dealers and are 85% of the new price. The mark ones are nothing like as nice, and the car supermarkets have overpriced non uk spec euro imports with bits missing. Importing from holland saves me a mere £1K off the discounted dealer price.
Stuff it, negotiate a big discount and get my wife to write of the depreciation against tax. It will smell nice too, for a few weeks.
David
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I can source the Alhambra 1.9 TDi PD SE 6 speed manual to UK spec for 23150 euros collect yourself in Holland. UK VAT and OTR charges need to be added.
I gather this works out at around 10% off UK price even with the low euro.
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Watcher
It all sounds too easy - are you bull***ing us or what?
How do you sell? Are you in the trade? My experience is that it is very difficult/impossible to sell new or nearly-new cars privately - most people will need a warranty when shelling-out big bucks.
Also, aren't buyers put off big-time by the fact that the car is imported?
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I have always bought second hand - usually beaten up old rubbish admittedly, but I have fond memories of a 1600E cortina that ran for about an hour or two between rebuilds.
More recently my wife had a Peugeot 106 1.5D - we paid £4.5k for it just under 3 years old with 55k on the clock. The car was a nightmare. kept overheating. Do you know the car doesn't have a temperature gauge - yes honest, no temperature gauge. the first you know of any overheat is when the engine destroys itself.
Paid pots of money for head gaskets, new head, various other problems and eventually a new engine. A fortune spent the car was still rubbish so decided to change it.
When you add up the initial cost, repairs, and severe depreciation it cost us nearly £300 per month for the 2 years we had it.
We used it as deposit on a brand spanking VW Polo 1.4 match which we are very happy with. We pay £150 per month for 3 years and at the end of 3 years we will owe the Dealer £2700
The car will be 3 year, one lady owner with about 30k on the clock - so worth about £5k (and of course it will be mint so could be worth a bit more)
We could either give it back and pocket the difference, Pay the £2700 and the car is ours or we could use it as a deposit against another new one and continue the deal for another 3 years. Or, we could buy the car off, sell it privately and use part of the proceeds as deposit against another 3 year deal.
In the mean time we have no MOT's, the car is under manufacturer warrenty so no repairs, and we have peace of mind. Oh, and I have a happy wife - which i've just discovered is quite a good thing.
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I always buy new now because I can afford to and I don't want other people's cast offs anymore, I had enough of that when I was a kid.
When you buy second hand you don't really know what you are getting. I for one wouldn't want to buy an ex Avis hire car, especially if someone like me had been thrashing it from new, not bothering to run it in etc!
Anyway where would Dogbreath & co get their so called bargains from if it wasn't for private punters buying new. Ex lease/hire cars? I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole!
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My 2ndhand Peugeot 106 has also blown the headgasket, didn't know because no temp gauge! It certainly reduced any cost advantage. However I will probably still buy 2nd hand, just choose more carefully - no more French cars for me in future. My old Sierra ran for 10 years without any engine work needed.
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The modern motorist is a well pampered soul, buying a new car that never breaks down and never needs it's bonnet opened, except when the dealer services it. As he does an average of 10000 miles a year, this can be once every two years. He doesn't read the handbook, so he doesn't realise that the aircon needs to be run regularly or it will eventually fail. He is proud of his car, so he starts it up every week and backs it out of the garage to wash it. He then starts it up and drives it back into the garage afterwards. His wife drives the kids to school every day, all of quarter of a mile.
After three years he sells it. Low milage, immaculate.
If you're lucky, you won't be the one to buy it.
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This thread is like running into an old friend - as was mentioned above, this is an oft visited topic in the BR.
I've jumped sides from my old position, having decided on getting a new car. I think the main motivation is that we can afford it, but it's easy to bring out some standard reasons like 3 years warranty with no worries, and with our car, 50k servicing too. The worry of large bills on an old car is always a factor, annoying then that you sell the slightly newer car with the higher mileage and then the older one brings up a carribean holidays worth of bills!
Of course, buying a pristine ZX TD (or a shed actually) and paying the bills to keep it on the road would still be cheaper than the new car, so perhaps it's just vanity.
Lee.
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I do both. Buy a new one and keep for 10 yeats and buy secondhand and keep /sell as and when.
Please keep buying new as I get loadsofbargains buying secondhand:-)
I don't care what anyone elses's motives are. Just keep buying new, hardly using it and selling after 1-2 years at a huge loss. Please!
(and if you wash and polish it regularly that will be fine: you're just running it in for me and saving me money. Thank you Jeeves)
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