A 8+year old Merc, built at the nadir of their quality cycle, with 100+K miles looks like a project more than a get-in-and-go utility item for me. Seven years is just about the right time also, for major bits of stuff to need replacing, which may include: cats, suspension bits, shock absorbers, exhausts, aircon overhaul, ancilliary electrics/functions etc. They're also prone to rust in this era (up to mid 2003 if memory serves..?).
If the service history includes or documents any/many larger non-service items (as above), I'd bank having on having to replace/repair at least some of those. Not cheap.
Edited by woodbines on 04/01/2009 at 12:33
|
Thse cars are a good design, very strong and generally very reliable, with huge interior room.
A chap i know that uses MB E class's for private hire tells me that the 210 was far roomier inside that the 211, which bears out many observations here where current models seem to be getting bigger overall but with no increase in internal space.
The 240 isn't particularly loved and if you wanted a 210 i would be looking for the bomb proof 300 turbodiesel, tremendous torque and good economy.
If you could stretch to a 320cdi, the performance is truly amazing.
Not all of these cars rust through, i believe a lot depends on the previous owners care, leaving 6 months of salt crust lying around the wheel arches and door extremities doesn't help to keep them rust free, and how many people do you know that have the good sense to fully hose off the underbody at the end of the winter or even touch up stonechips before they fester.
You will have to examine any one of these very carefully, bearing in mind there are many hundreds of cases where MB have replaced doors/wings/bootlids and repaired dozens more panels under warranty on cars 4 to 8 years old, so the vehicle you are looking at may well be rust free or it may have had all the rust repaired, the MB bodyshops are good, you will have to be pretty good to be able to tell its been done.
Peel back the door skin rubbers and have a look there too.
If your chosen car has full MB history and no unapproved body reapirs (they will measure the paint thickness to check) they may well still honour rust issues on that car, its a bit of a lottery.
More disturbingly, there are 2 points that must be closely examined, the front cross member gets salt water trapped by the tight fitting under tray and will corrode right through, easy cure, just put some washers between the tray and cross member to allow water to escape.
And the front spring cups which are welded to the inner chassis corrode through under their sealant unseen and its known for these cups to shear off whilst people are driving them, i understand the bump stops prevent catastrophic results, but its hardly something i'd want happening.
Remember not all 210's will be like this and a good one is a lovely safe car.
Always worth a look in HJ's carby car guide up top.
|
|
I've seen W210 taxis in Germany with over 500,000km. As gb says there are good ones and bad ones. The interior is enormous and it is very comfortable over long distances. I had an E240 on 4 week hire a long time ago and I remember a very smooth drive but a lack of low down torque and high fuel consumption.
|
Anyone know if there are any good W123 230 TEs out there (or 300TD) or maybe a W124 230,300 or 300D. These were lovely cars.
I have also heard that if considering a W210 the older indirect injection 300 Turbodiesel is a better bet than the 320 CDI estate even though I was utterly seduced by the latter when I drove one (really DID shift and so practical for kids, booze run)
|
I have posted on the W124 thread. In many places, the engineering is complex. After 15 years, it fails. Replacemnet is NOT cheap.
See central locking, steering air suspension, suspension bushes , wiring issues etc.
Anyone who thinks they can run a Mercedes costing over £30k new cheaply is deluded.
The engineering is light years behind that of Toyota /Lexus and the build quailty is also poor by comparison.
If you want cheap longevity buy a Lexus LS400.
|
Neighbour had a steering rack go on one of these, £1,000 from an indie 2 years ago !
MVP
|
I have to say I'm with madf on the LS400.
A friend bought an immaculate, well maintained, but high mileage early car two years ago for about £3500. We all said it would be written off within 6 months with the first serious problem it suffered. We were wrong. Still going and still as quick and smooth as ever, even with 160k on the clock. It's had two services (indie) and a couple of front suspension bushes. Never broken down, all the toys still work, and goes like something off a shovel with 280 bhp under the bonnet.
Easilly the best built I have ever come across. I can't think of many engines which will put tiny ripples in a glass of water resting on the inlet manifold at 5500 RPM, let alone with 160,000 miles on the clock (yes, it really does work!). Awesome engineering.
|
I used to be a great fan of Mercedes engineering quality - the W124 cars and earlier were a real pleasure to work on (it's when you take them apart to do a routine job such as replacing an instrument lamp that you really see the detailing). OK, the diesels and smaller engined variants were slow and the bigger ones thirsty, but these things were a pleasure to own and use from an engineering point of view.
Two things have happened.
Firstly these cars are now old. Despite probably the best spares back up in the business, these cars will need lots of parts now and their poor running efficiency (by today's standards) makes keeping them now a doubly expensive luxury.
Secondly, M-B with its abortive flirtation with Chrysler went through a truly dreadful patch and produced cars for almost a decade which were just not fit for purpose. The subject of this posting falls into this category - these cars are not worth having, at any price.
I hope that when the post '04 cars are about 10 years old, we will see that they have fixed their rust and other problems. Until then, no money from me.
659.
|
I can only assume that many people that are slating the W210 have never actually owned or driven one for a considerable period of time?
I can only base this on my own (albeit long association) with Mercs.
Firstly, there are W210's out there at absolute BARGAIN prices for the amount of car you get for your £££. It seems to have a bad reputation but mine (E240 2.6 - year 2000) has given me 5 years of reliable, efficient and cost-effective motoring. There are a couple of very minor rust spots but these are surely characteristic of any vehicle coming up for it's 10th Birthday. Let's be honest, how many X reg Fords/Vauxhalls etc. do we even see on the road to compare (let alone those that have been built with the ability to clock up 200K+)?
Apart from routine A&B servicing, I have had to buy a new 'cat' - not bad considering it's got 110K on the clock (60K of which I've added over the past 5 years).
The car itself is an absolute dream to drive; the engine purrs at ANY speed, kickdown is extrtemely powerful and whilst idling you cannot actually hear ANY engine noise inside the vehicle whatsoever; a colleague I chauffered on a recent business trip thought it had actually died at the first roundabout we stopped at - in his words "this car slaughters the nuts off my Audi for drive, comfort and build quality". His company Audi is less than a year old and has been back to the dealership twice already for a leaking driver's door sill !
In contradiction to some other views, I have to say that the most unreliable Mercs I've ever owned were W124's! I had two, both of which suffered from pretty major fuel and electric problems once they had covered in excess of 85K. Whilst in a MB Dealership around 1994 having my car serviced, they brought in a 1991 190E model whose front suspension had collapsed whilst still under its first 3 yr. warranty!
I also own a 1979 W123 and beleive me - the W124 doesn't hold a light to it's predecessor. I have read that when the W124's were brought out, German Taxi Drivers actually caused quite a stink with the 'powers that be' in Stuttgart about the W124's build quality (or rather, the lack of it).
All I can say is that my own experience of owning a W210 isn't reflected by other comments across some forums on the internet. They are spacious, drive like an absolute dream, quite efficient for fuel (given their power and six) and, most importantly given the amount of cretins on the road these days, they are as solid as a tank.
Hope this balances slightly the negative press of W210's.
A minor point - I also think the W210 is the last Merc built that has that characteristic Mercedes interior look.......the more recent crop of various series Mercs appear to have shares in a plastic company when sat in the cockpit!
|
I was very negative upthread.
Let me put it like this.
Apart from Kas, how many really rusty cars do you see on the roads? Modern cars built after 1995?
Answer: not many: but I would say of the rusty ones, the worst affected are Mercedes...
Based on my own eyes..
And read the Mercedes Forums and then the Lexus forums...(US and UK). The contrasts in stories are quite telling...
The MB Owners Club forum has a Sticky heading labelled " Rust"!
forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=5
And to prove my point
forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showthread.php?t=51829
Edited by madf on 11/09/2009 at 15:58
|
Find me a similar spec. second hand Lexus that's as comparative price wise to a W210 and I may see your point.
Show me more second hand car for approx. £4K than a Mercedes W210 from ANY other manufacturer, and I may come around to your way of thinking.
As for your issue about other cars post 1995 - I spend most of my day on Motorways and Mercs aside, I really don't see that many cars M plate (1995) onwards...................although I do see quite a few Fords & Vauxhalls on the hard shoulder of the M25/M1/M6 at Weekends. I'd also like you to see the rust on my neighbours Wife's 55 plate Punto Sports - a car that cost her £12K new has literally fallen apart.
Mercedes are not immune to the natural elements of the environment nor mechanical failures BUT obviously a well cared for model will outlive many of it's competitors........'based on my own eyes' of course!
|
|
