My pick up has leaf springs at the rear, during my pre winter waxoyling session i jacked the vehicle up by the chassis to allow the springs to separate and gave them a good coating of the stuff to lubricate/protect them.
The ride definately improved, but there's always the nagging thought of dirt sticking to the waxoyle and causing wear between the leaves.
I seem to recall some classic cars having their leaf springs bound in some sort of waterproof canvas, and during this years summer i will probably pressure wash those leaves, grease and bind them up.
A chap on another forum wondered whether this would be any good
tinyurl.com/9u7mfd
Or does the BR have any other suggestions for a way of binding/protecting the springs or am i being a tad odd again.;)
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I have seen this tape used in a harsh marine environment and it is good stuff. It is flexible, heavily impregnated and waxy. Should be ideal for leaf springs.
Edited by Old Navy on 21/12/2008 at 09:39
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Odd? Possibly, but that's OK!
Instinctively I would be reluctant to cover them on the basis that while it might stop stuff getting in it may also keep more moisture etc around them. No science behind that advice I'll admit but just feel that if they were intended to be covered that they would be already.
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Surely the springs should be okay without needing any attention at all. Are they not made to be maintenance free? I would have thought if you were to ever have any problems with them then it would be via fatigue and a leaf snapping, rather than any rusting problem.
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Denso tape - we use it extensively to cover exposed securing nuts. Good stuff, so I'm told, and this is on items that are expected to last for 80 years!
Edited by mfarrow on 21/12/2008 at 10:49
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Deso tape is the buss good swag. not 100% sure if it suitable for leaf springs though.
Yes leaf springs do need regular oiling i would not personaly use waxoil. Old sump oil is as good as anything or if you can get it hydraulic oil as it is very penatrive.
Some of the old Rover P5's Used to have their leaf springs covered in a leather case which was full of grease
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>>am i being a tad odd again.;)
What does the vehicle's service schedule say?
If inter-leaf lubrication is part of the schedule, then, OK, but, if not, there are good reasons to leave well alone.
Is spring failure on your vehicle a common problem?
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Thanks for the replies folks, on the subject of servicing schedule NC it says nothing, but then thats hardly surprising these days.
Why do you think it could be a bad idea NC.
Are leaf springs designed to run dry? If so rain water would provide some lubricant anyway.
My vehicle has only been out since 06 as a proper UK supplied vehicle, so no history of failures yet, but the previous model could suffer with spring fatigue over time.
I wanted to do 2 things here, 1 to stop the leaves corroding, and 2 to lubricate the rubbing surfaces to prevent wear (thinning of the leaves over time with subsequent weakening) and to help with a smoother ride, which unless i'm mistaken the ride did feel smoother following the waxoyling of the leaves.
The denso tape, and thanks for the recommendations and thoughts chaps looked as if it could provide some protection to stop muck and bullets ingress, and i take on board the thought that it could also keep unwanted moisture in as well.
Trucks used to have the auto lube system which included the spring shackles, and the oil would over time soak the springs too.
Now i don't suppose for a minute that the shackles on the pick up would be designed for oil soaking, so i didn't really want to use oil or grease, hence waxoyle as it doesn't damage any rubber bushes or brake/fuel pipes it should come into contact with.
Any further thoughts?
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>>on the subject of servicing schedule NC it says nothing, but then thats hardly surprising these days.
It's not necessarily a conspiracy GB, it's just that these springs aren't designed to be lubricated. If they were, it would be in the schedule.
>>Why do you think it could be a bad idea NC.
As leaf spring suspensions can rely upon inter-leaf friction for some of the damping, your suspension is now underdamped compared to the design case.
>>Are leaf springs designed to run dry?
Generally, yes.
>>If so rain water would provide some lubricant anyway.
Possibly, but water will be much more easily squeezed out of the inter-leaf gap than waxoyl.
>>but the previous model could suffer with spring fatigue over time.
By lubricating the leaves, for a given change in load, and a given dynamic loading, your leaf springs will now deflect further, and hence be more stressed, which could reduce their fatigue life.
>>unless i'm mistaken the ride did feel smoother following the waxoyling of the leaves.
Yes, because you've removed a designed in damping mechanism, so there's less force being transmitted to the body.
>>Trucks used to have the auto lube system which included the spring shackles, and the oil would over time soak the springs too.
The springs would only be soaked if the timer which set the delay between pumps had been mal-adjusted. After fitting, say, a new spring shackle, we would turn up the tiumer for a while to get plenty of lubricant though, and the oil would blather everywhere, but, when the system (Interlube) was turned back down, that didn't happen.
While I know that, like oilrag, you're a martyr to OMD (Obsessive Maintenance Disorder), I think that in this case, you've crossed the line between sensible servicing, and ill-advised tinkering.
Edited by Number_Cruncher on 21/12/2008 at 13:54
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Come on - you know your pickup is worth it! wefcogaiters.com/web/html/product/product_body.shtm
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Just when NC had got me convinced that i was wrong...again,
VB comes up with the perfect solution, now i have a feeling that the company concerned may be supplying the classic and vintage car market, i wonder what the reaction would be when i requested a set of leather spring gaiters for a...hilux..;)
To be annoyingly honest i think that NC may be grudgingly right..on this one occasion... and i shall try to get help for OMD, whats worrying me is the compulsion i shall feel as i liberally splurge the waxoyle about in the vicinity of the rear springs.
Father Dougal and the big red button signed 'do not press' spring to mind.
Thanks for all the good thoughts and suggestions, i promise to delete the link provided by VB from the top of my favourites....sometime...
And when Finnigans shares fall to nothing i know where to point the finger..
Where does one get help for this problem..;)
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Where does one get help for this problem..;)
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Doctorchris? Dont ask anyone in technical!
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A Rolls Phantom limo we used to service had bound leaf springs.
I can remember admiring how well the leather (possibly canvas) had been cut and stitched.
We always thought it was to prevent any creaks from being heard in the passenger compartment as much as a maintenance item.
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We always thought it was to prevent any creaks from being heard in the passenger compartment as much as a maintenance item. More likely to stop the remains of run-over peasants desecrating the chassis! ;-)
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GB, NC
From the Ford workshop manual for a Mk1 Escort circia 1968-74, graphite grease was to be used between the leaves of the springs.
StarGazer
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>>graphite grease was to be used between the leaves of the springs.
In this case, the hydraulic dampers will be sized appropriately, assuming that no damping is provided by the spring itself.
I've given this a bit of thought (It's a while since I've given leaf springs any thought at all!), and in GB's case, the suspension damping is provided by two sources, the hydraulic dampers, and the inter-leaf damping.
The hydraulic damping is fairly constant in rate, but, the inter-leaf damping is load dependent. I suspect the lack of damping caused by lubricating the leaves will make itself most obviously felt when the pick-up is fully laden.
In some ways, there's some subtelty in the as designed case.
For the purpose of illustration, I'll wite about viscous damping - the damping ratio is given by
Zeta = c / 2 * sqrt ( K * M )
where;
Zeta is the damping ratio
c is the damping rate (Newton Seconds per Metre)
K is the spring stiffness (Newtons per Metre)
M is the mass (kg)
This equation can be applied either to the sprung or unsprung mass, where one can see that for a given spring and damper combination, the unsprung mass is much more heavily damped than the sprung mass.
However, with leaf springs, the damping rate, c, rises with the mass, so, as you load the vehicle up, the damping ratio does not reduce as it does for vehicles fitted with springs with low internal friction.
I've been a little naughty, as the inter-leaf damping is not viscous damping, but, equations combining viscous and friction damping would soon become completely opaque.
However, for while leaf springs might be termed a crude and agricultural engineering solution, there are clever and subtle details in their specification.
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