|
What amazes me is that we have companies like Bristol and Morgan who by rights should have folded 40 years ago, yet somehow, they carry on - they must be doing something right.
|
"they must be doing something right"
They charge a lot for a car produced in small numbers. So it is profitable to make these.
|
|
|
|
Many of us can remember it, DC, and like you I am reluctant to commit money to the car industry... yet again...
As i said perviously none of the local firms in my neck of the woods who are laying off (and have gone bust in a couple of cases) are anything to do with the car industry and therefore seem to have no clout at all... so we in our area suffer with no help... now if the Gov were to put some of that money towards our firms...
I have one suggestion for the car industry... stop spending so much on new model development... we are quoted that a new car costs millions to develop yet looks little different to the old model... that money could be better spent I'm sure...
|
|
Some new cars are said to cost billions aren't they! Why not prolong the lifecycle? Apart from in the States where they are selling the wrong product at the wrong time (SUVs/trucks).
|
|
|
|
|
The problem is that when big companies fail the impact they have is enormous enough to take out a lot of small, adaptable businesses as well. I agree with you that Jaguar shouldn't be bailed out in a 'BL' kind of way, but a gentle let-down is better than a sudden collapse and might even cost less. Politicians can't say as much of course, but I note the interesting language used today by the Bush adminstration, which is apparently aiming to prevent the 'disorderly collapse' of the US car manufacturers. They are not saying they aim to save them, just prevent the collapse from becoming disorderly, with all that implies socially and economically. Interesting.
|
OK, we live on a small island with congested roads and no political initiative to improve that road system.
The oil that powers our vehicles will run out. The CO2 emitted from those vehicles may be ruining our planet.
The physics of our road system and our speed limits mean that high performance cars cannot be driven to their full potential, indeed they are boring to drive compared with smaller cars.
Logically, we should have a motor industry producing small, fuel-efficient cars that our drivers would buy in great numbers.
Never mind those minor bumps and scrapes, your car is cheap and you don't worry. Hence insurance costs are lower.
So, we produce Jaguars, Land Rovers. Rolls Royces, Bentleys, Morgans, oh, and a few Nissans, Hondas and other cheaper brands when the workforce is not laid off.
Meanwhile the "sensible" cars are produced abroad and imported.
My point? We have lost our way as a sensible manufacturing nation.
My solution? Sorry lads, don't have one unless we tackle the lunacy of legislation that controls every move we make in life in today's UK.
|
|
With all of these surplus vehicles at the Docks, and factories shutting down, the government and councils etc... would be better buying them for public service use as POLICE cars, staff cars etc... in a massive procurement scheme. I bet the French are doing that.
|
|
Our government will spend OUR money on employing more public service workers. However, for each "worker" in the public sector, 2-3 administrators will be needed to keep an eye on them.
|
It seems to me that these companies need a leader, someone who is passionate about their survival - THAT is why Morgan and Bristol survive, single-minded direction and leadership. They invest wisely, spend as little as possible and grow only when it is sustainable.
They might not make millions but they keep going which is better than going under.
The reason that my valeting work hasnt grown into anything more than me and a small car is because I choose it to be that way. Infact over the last two years, ive made 30% savings on running costs and as it stands, I could if needs be, take a 25% paycut and still stay afloat. Why? Because its mine and I want to suceed and when times are hard, survive.
I think a huge part of the problem is that these big companies seem unable to tighten their belts.
|
|
|
|
Completely agree DC. I don't pretend to know anything about economics but I remember being taught that a basic economy demands we dig materials out of the ground, turn them into raw materials, make something useful with them - create a manufacturing economy, which then supports a service sector. I am in the private sector myself, as a manufacturing chemist and have seen bad times, been made redundant and had to adapt,like many people. I don't wish to see the car industry collapse and mass redundancies but I see no reason why they should be treated any differently to any other industry. Where do you draw the line? What about household appliances, the furniture industry, for example?
And how much can the taxpayer support, with dwindling manufacturing base and financial/services sector heading for ruins? I am really quite worried about the future, fortunately I have no debt and own my house, but nevertheless reading the informed press and the informed comments on HJ is disconcerting.
|
Bazza, you state the obvious regarding a sensible economy.
Our economy is based upon an Empire that is long gone, moved on to a financial services economy that has collapsed, leaving us nowhere.
We must rebuild a manufacturing base of small, adaptable industries.
The only model of this that I know is that of the Black Country of the late 19th and 20th century, although there are many others, I'm sure.
However, our government strangle innovate industry with laws designed to regulate "big industry".
|
Some things we still do quite well - boats for example, where Sunseeker is a global leader, though their market might fall for the same reason as Aston Martin who have laid off huge numbers.
I'm at a loss to understand why a large company whose products have fallen out of favour deserves saving, when no doubt some smaller ones who also have failed to adapt will be left with no support and so will fold.
We must remember though, that some of the modern industries are in many ways also making things, even if they get shipped on a CD or over the wires. A software engineer is making a product, in my book, in just the same way that our grandparents' generation turned out machine tools. The application may be very different, and also the working conditions, but if it brings in ? or $ then it's still valid.
|
ONB, one of the firms I was talking about was Sealine who produce similar and equally respected product to Sunseeker... they have shut down three factories locally... no hint of help from the Gov though... I'm sorry but I strongly feel that the motor industry is not a special case... it employs 1 million people, but there are many, many small and not so small industries who employ in total far more than that but who will get no help...
Re exchange rates... Paypal was quoting me 1.0234 Euros to the £1 yesterday... how long before its worth more!!
Edited by b308 on 19/12/2008 at 09:01
|
sadly, all socialist governments end up trying to defy reality and shape it into what they want it to be. Labour is no different.
In a recession the market has to find a value for everything, and when it has, recovery can begin. You might not like it but it is *** reality ***.
Jaguar might be worthless as people realise that their cars are pretty much pointless. Who knows? The market will decide. However, government has distorted the market with outrageous taxation so it's hard to tell.
And I mean governments of all types, not just the Brown junta.
Jaguar will get help, if it does, because it will benefit mainly labour voters. That again is ***
reality ***
New Labour has no connection with Zanu PF so the reference has been chopped, I can assure you of that as I have relatives in Zimbabwe and its not funny
Edited by Pugugly on 19/12/2008 at 11:35
|
We could all help...by buying British....but i suspect it's too late, because too many of you bought something from abroad because you fancied it, rather than buying something made here... and i'm not talking about BL's rubbish either
instead of buying a 3 series or an A4 or a C class etc, buy an X Type...they're perfectly acceptable cars...instead of a 5 series, A6 or E Class buy an XF..that's a wonderful car
when you drive through France, most of the poulation drives a French car, ditto Germany for German marques
(puts on hard hat and awaits the response)
|
WP, that's fair enough if you're looking at high end cars or a mid-size saloon/estate. Those of us who want, for example, a small 7-seater or a cheap city car, don't have much choice in the way of British-built these days.
I do quite fancy an X-type estate when I replace my Fiat Stilo Multiwagon, but as I won't be looking for brand new I don't see the advantage in buying British.
|
"instead of buying a 3 series or an A4 or a C class etc, buy an X Type...they're perfectly acceptable cars...instead of a 5 series, A6 or E Class buy an XF..that's a wonderful car."
I followed a 58 plated XF this morning - good looking car, but the build quality was shocking - even from a car distance away I could see dismal panel gaps and one of the reversing sensors in the rear bumper was clearly standing proud.
Now I know that sounds like nit-picking but if this is the standard of the workmanship then who in their right mind would spend their hard earned on one?
|
We could all help...by buying British....>>
How do you define that? By ownership of car company, build location of car, or where the parts for said car come from?
|
Change the title of this thread, it's not a bail-out!
"The company [JLR] has described itself as ?a healthy, viable business?, which needs short-term support to cope with ?a national emergency requiring urgent action?.
They're healthy and viable but got no money - so it's not a real problem.
|
needs short-term support
Thats what Banks provide isn't it?
But then they'd have to pay interest and actually pay it back... which they'd rather avoid... so they'll try to get Gov money which they don't have to?
|
|
|
|
|
|
