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Im looking at selling my astra. What do people tend to use in the backroom - Ebay or Autotrader?
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I was thinking of using the "auction" function ebay rather than a classified listing. No reserve. Parkers says car is worth ~500 quid.
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You get ten pics , so use 'em all. One each front, rear, OS and OS, a shot of the dash showing mileage, front seats, rear seats, boot. Take the pics in a neutral setting, not on yr drive, so you can frame the pic decently.
Start on a Tuesday evg for a ten day sale to finish on a Sunday evening. For an extra 10p you can schedule the listing time, if you can't do it "live" on a Tues pm.
Start at £0.99, and mention that it will go to the end (you'll get loads od offers of £xx to go now).
If possible/financially viable, get a fresh MoT - buyers love the idea of twelve months "free" motoring.
I'd avoid listing it til January, now.
Edited by oldnotbold on 16/12/2008 at 11:52
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"And under no circumstances accept paypal payments".
Mookfish, Why no to paypal?
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Mookfish Why no to paypal?
Unless things have changed, in the event of a buyer claiming to have not recieved the item paypal will automaticaly refund them unless the seller can provide proof of postage, and they specificaly list what counts as proof.
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Paypal invariably finds in the buyer's favour if there is a dispute, and just DDs the money from your account if the buyer puts up a good story.
Cash is king, and there's no 3% charge from PayPal, either.
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I think the buyer protection arrangements only apply to certain items, eg things that are posted. However the fees are an issue. One benefit of paypal though is that you can ask for a deposit to be paid by paypal immediately at the end of the auction with the bulk of the money paid cash on collection.
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At this end of the market I wouldn't hold my breath for a deposit. The buyer may attempt to knock the price down on arrival though, so it's best to list any faults and be ready to stand your ground.
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Why on earth would anybody Paypal a deposit to somebody who has posted 10 pictures of a car on the internet.
A fool and his money.... (But then people seem to have invested in a "50bn" fund audited by a postman and his cat out of a broom cupboard in NY.)
BTW, Thursday evening is 10 days before Sunday; not Tuesday!
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"Thursday evening is 10 days before Sunday; not Tuesday!"
VMT for reminding me!
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If it is a reasonably expensive car I think some sort of deposit via paypal (if it is a proper dealer selling then 95% of them will be able to take a card directly) is a reasonable request.
If there is a major dispute then both paypal and card companies have procedures in place.
On a cheap car then maybe a £50 intention of goodwill if you are no going to collect for a while might be OK.
Most sellers & buyers on ebay are OK. The only times there are problems is when you get an obvious con such as "2007 BMW X5, 32k miles, £5,995" which, amazingly, people do fall for. ebay is only really a venue for agreeing a price in the case of cars - the actual transaction is the same as with any other method of purchase.
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>>Deposit via paypal/On a cheap car then maybe a £50 intention of goodwill
>>ebay is only really a venue for agreeing a price in the case of cars - the actual transaction is the same as with any other method of purchase.
I agree totally with assertion (2), and am completely unable to relate it to assertion (1). In the real world, would you ring up a number from a car advertised in Autotrader and agree to give them a deposit before you went to view it???????????!
Paypal chargebacks are not available on cars. Credit card companies are not obliged to give chargebacks where paypal is involved. You are asking to be ripped off.
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Another tip is to looked forward to when the auction ends and check if there's anything on the telly that gets a big audience. That can distract the very people you want to look at your sale.
Be very honest, and if you don't want to be disappointed, put a reserve on it. There's no going back once it's sold and DON'T PANIC. It may seem to going nowhere but towards the end, it'll take off with the canny/hopeful late bidders. I have won with just 20 seconds to go. Do a quick check on bidders and say that only bidders with a min. 10 transaction history will be accepted. If you lose your nerve, you can always withdraw the sale, but be ready with a good excuse.
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Do a 9 day auction and start it so it finishes at around 8pm on a Sunday. This gives two weekends for people to view plus most people are home to bid at that time. Start at £1 and no reserve if you are brave or really want shot of it. Lots of clear pics, lots of detail about the condition, be honest, answer questions promptly and be available for viewing.
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I was thinking of the no reserve for thing as my faulty Fiesta is going on as soon as I get chance to take daylight pics, I am worried that it may fetch too litte, what s the worst that could happen if i made a last minute excuse and lost my nerve? Could I simply say the rod went through the block at the last minute? :p
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Start it off at what the scrappie will give you! £25.00, by the way.
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I would rather stand on market street selling my MAF for a fiver than selling it for £25! This morning I was thinking £285 is my lowest, now I am thinking more like £250 but that might come down still.
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Rattle, you paid £350 for it. Since then the MOT has reduced to 4 months from 6? Or was it 6 from 8?
In any event, that has reduced its value by 25 to 33%. Say £90-120
So that leaves you at £230-£260
And the clutch has gone. The parts will cost, what? £80. Leaving £150-£180.
And then the poor devil who buys it will have to fit the clutch, which even in these tough economic climes for hard-working families must be worth £50.
And whilst it may well have had one careful owner (you), it's had 12 careless owners. I reckon you'll be lucky to get £100 for a non-runner with 4-6 months' MOT. More likely some joker will put in a bid so your eBay fees will be £25, and you'll end up having to pay a scrappy £25 to take it away.
Would you pay £350 for it now, if it had a working clutch? Unlikely! So why would anybody give you £250 without a working clutch?
Your car may yet cost you a further £50.
OP, on the other hand, has a worthwhile car. It runs and drives. NB, the eBay auction is 10 days, not 9.
And time it to finish at 8.12, or 7.52, or something - too many people set automatic auctions to finish at exactly 8.
Edited by Mapmaker on 16/12/2008 at 19:54
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It now has 5 months MOT, and 4 months tax, the OPs does have several faults too like a faulty gearbox it will need work.
I've been quite surprised and quite sucessful in selling none runners on ebay before but I do realise it is a risk.
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> Start it off at what the scrappie will give you! £25.00, by the way
I would start it at 99p, listing fee will be cheaper and by the time it gets to even £25 it would have had a few bids. Buyers like something others are bidding on too so it encourages competition (and a better price for the seller) by the apparent interest the item has. By the time it gets near to it's actual value, only the real buyers will be left, the chancers who thought they'd get a years motoring for £17.50 will have gone.
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I agree totally with assertion (2) and am completely unable to relate it to assertion (1). In the real world would you ring up a number from a car advertised in Autotrader and agree to give them a deposit before you went to view it???????????!
No, but if you complete an Auction and are the winning bidder whats the incentive to complete the purchase if, for example, you see another car you fancy? Seller is then left to relist the item - more time taken.
To put it another way would you visit a showroom and agree to the purchase of a car, but not expect to leave a deposit prior to you returning to complete the purchase.
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If you see a car in Autotrader and want to hold it then I think it is perfectly reasonable to place a small deposit.
If the car is completely misdescribed then ask for your money back. We seem to live in a depressing world where it is automatically assumed people lie. In fact, I reckon in 95% of cases even with used cars people are still usually perfectly honest.
ebay can be an excellent place to buy cars. I've bought about 15 in the last year. One or two maybe a bit iffy, 3-4 way better than expected and most about as any reasonable person could expect them to be.
Just use a bit of common sense and don't look a gift horse in the mouth.>>
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"If you see a car in Autotrader and want to hold it then I think it is perfectly reasonable to place a small deposit. "
I do not disagree... but how would a deposit be paid?
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The easiest way is probably by direct bank transfer. With the new faster payment system it is instant and free so ideal for paying £50 to somebody. There is also a good record of the transaction and if they have a UK bank account there is a good chance that the seller is in fact who they say they are.
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You'd be pretty nuts to pay £50 to someone you have never met for a car you have not seen.
OK, if you win the auction having already inspected it, but I've bought three bangers on the Bay, and in all cases I spoke to the seller after the auction, agreed a collection time, kept to it, and paid 100% on arrival after I'd checked the car and the docs.
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I want any buyer to pick the car up sharpish. Until they do, I can't pick up my next car as I would need to transfer the insurance over. I don't have a driveway and will not allow an uninsured car on the street.
I think I would need to set a condition that collection is very soon after the auction ends or the car goes to BCA.
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pd. Would you REALLY give money to somebody whom you have never met, and have no idea whether they really exist? Once you've paid money by bank transfer there's no way of getting it back. And if it's only £50 or a couple of hundred the police aren't going to be interested - nor is anybody.
Nuts, nuts, nuts!
So far as OP is concerned, he should state in the ad his desire to get rid of the car asap. "Car to be collected within 48 hours of auction ending." In order to ensure this happens, I shall be relisting the car on a 3-day auction. I can obviously end this auction within 24 hours of its finishing time provided you turn up. If not, it will be sold to somebody else."
Otherwise you'll hang about for a week or so, then relist it for another 10 days, then hang about for another week.
TBH with this sort of car a 3 days listing is probably more than adequate. I guess there are 100+ similar cars on the site, and the extra week probably isn't going to make for many more hits.
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" Until they do, I can't pick up my next car as I would need to transfer the insurance over. I don't have a driveway and will not allow an uninsured car on the street."
Your current insurer may offer short-term cover for two, or you can put one on a short term policy from companies including Norwich Union. Saves a lot of hassle.
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I'd also suggest using Norwich Union short term policy on one car - it is approx £10/day I think. if this is for a very short time then it might not cost too much.
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Actually, if I judged them to be OK then yes I would and often do. There seems a "Daily Mail" obsession on this forum at times that everyone in the entire world is cheat and liar. That is not the case.
If I'm travelling a long way to view or collect a car I want to make damn sure it is there and available - not sold to somebody who came along later. £50 is probably less than it would cost in petrol to go and view it.
I certainly think it is acceptable to ask for a holding deposit after an ebay auction if the collection is not going to be within 2-3 days.
The general trick with ebay is to judge the seller as much as the car. I buy hundreds of cars a year and do occassionally dip into ebay (there are some brilliant buys amongst the dross) and never view them - I just do not have the time. Most (although the caveat is that I do not usually buy at the banger end) are fine as long as you accept a used car is never perfect.
90% of the time I reckon you can spot the dogs and cons from the adverts and if not then by speaking to the vendor. I've had the occassional disaster where I have declined to buy and ended in an argument but not very often.
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The alternative to E-bay is Autotrader.
There's a good range of similar Polos on there- with prices ranging from the very cheap (£200 - £300) to the stupid (£2.5k for 1998 Polo with similar mileage to mine).
Advice comments on pricing strategies? And how should I manage the issue of the faults on mine (i.e. the box- which seems ok now its had the oil topped up - but you never now - and still has an oil leak) plus the niggles.
I really don't want to get the car MoT'd for sale - I worry about opening a can of worms...
Edited by LondonBus on 24/12/2008 at 10:43
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If the box is fine post fill-up, and stays fine during a test drive, then what's the issue? If it had been running like a bag of nails, and you fitted new plugs, leads etc., and then it ran OK, would you tell them how it was before?
Short MoT is a killer for me, but maybe there are others out there with more money/less brain. Whatever you price it at you'll have to be prepared for a substantial knock back if the MoT is short - it's a weakness any buyer should try to exploit. If it's got 12 months and priced sensibly then you can hold your ground.
Why do you think it'll fail the MoT?
Edited by oldnotbold on 24/12/2008 at 11:32
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Two reasons:
i) Advisory that front bushes were starting to delaminate in Feb 2008. They might be fine but....
ii)Advisory of small hole in front n/s gaiter - but has passed the last two MoTs with this despite the fact that it shouldn't have....
With a car of this age, it might pass the MoT with no problems. Or cost money.
Edited by LondonBus on 24/12/2008 at 12:28
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"it might pass the MoT with no problems. Or cost money. "
Which will be the view of most buyers, too.
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bangernomics.tripod.com/bangval.htm
With a new MOT, and four decent matching branded tyres and service history you'll get (I'm guessing, and now that the 'box is fixed) £500+ (somebody might give you over, you never know your luck). And
With 3 months MOT and none of the above you might get as little as a couple of hundred. Who would buy an old banger without the best part of a year's MOT?
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Noted - although the tyres match each other i.e. one brand on back axle, other brand on front.
Box isn't "fixed" - the top on oil will probably stop it jumping out of gear. Car is still worn and going to need money spending on it.
If I was keeping it, and doing the repairs myself I reckon I need to spend say 50-60 quid on bits for the MoT - plus servicing materials. Cheap little runner if you have maintenance facilities. However, with even our local indy having a £50/hour labour charge...
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It's just a sort of "This is my treasured car, I look after it well, and I can prove it 'cos if you look at the tyres you can see I only have Goodyear Eagles on it" compared to "err, well there are 4 tyres by different manufacturers whom nobody has heard of, and they're remoulds anyway - what do you mean, 'spend money on a car'?"
Flick through some eBay ads and read the ones with full stops, capital letters and sentences; must add 25% to the value of the car...
You have lots of space to describe your love affair with the car; use it. Don't use capital letters, over-large font etc. Make sure the ad is neatly formatted. And ideally use an eBay account with some feedback.
All depends really on how much effort you're prepared to go to for a couple of hundred pounds.
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I'm not desperate for the extra £200.
By the middle of January we would be able to pay £5,000 in cash for the next car.
Attitudes to how one owns/operates a car vary. I've noticed a few on this website:
a) Bangernomics
Buy a cheap car, run it cheaply, do your own maintenance. Ditch it when it gets expensive.
Upside: Cheap motoring (providing you can do your own maintenance and remain detached)
Downside: If you're on x (as I am), then the cost of one's time outweighs risk of breakdown.
b) Applicance
I'm in this category. Buy car on a functional basis (like a washing machine), keep maintained. Keep running til starts to get unreliable and get rid of.
c) "Pride and Joy". Buy car (new or newish) and love and cherish and look after. Dispose either after a few years or when the vehicle is a wreck.
d) "I never have a car with an MoT" - this owner buys a brand new vehicle and ditches it at the time of the first MoT. Benefits: Nice new vehicle. Disbenefits: Can suffer from teething troubles. Expensive (if they're paying for it themselves).
Attitudes not on this website:
a) "What do you mean - change the oil?" - the individual who buys a vehicle and never services it ever. Maintenance only gets done when something goes wrong. Can be identified by a oil check on the car. That's not oil - that's black toffee.
b) "I can't hear the car making funny noises - I always have the radio on". My wife is in this category. Despite being a skilled intelligent individual, totally clueless when it comes to vehicles. Car starts making funny noises (in ours caused by i) dying aux belt and then ii) leak on gearbox eventually resulting in 5th gear problems) and they get ignored. And as we know noises are a good sign of potential problems. This category also have problems because they don't read the manual. And as a brake fluid changes and cambelt changes aren't "standard service items" they don't happen when they should do...
Edited by LondonBus on 24/12/2008 at 14:56
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Great post Londonbus I think it really sums it up. My dad is in the never change the oil bit. He never ever gets the car fixed, I now at least force him to get the oil change done once a year and did get him to change the lower wishbone arms when they were about to crack but other than he leaves it all to the MOT.
I personaly would be insulted if my car failed the MOT as it means it wasn't roadworthy at the same time I cannot do the repairs myself.
I do love the idea of bangers but I am no mechanic and I simply cannot ignore knocks from the suspension so after Christmas I am going to think long and hard about getting rid of my car while it still has value and then saving up for something a bit newer or well maintained. My car literely has had zero maintance for years from what I can tell.
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Great post Londonbus I think it really sums it up. My dad is in the never change the oil bit. He never ever gets the car fixed
Didn't you take him with you as the expert when looking at your current or potential new cars? :-S
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There's not actually that much difference between (some ways of doing) (a) and (b).
Now, Rattle's approach to (a) was to buy the worst old banger he could find, and spend a fortune on it. No!
Bangernomics has nothing to do with running a grotty old never-been-serviced banger; and everything to do with appreciating that just because a car has 100k on the clock and is 10 years old, it's not necessarily had it. It still makes sense to pay a man to service it; it's not any more likely to break down than any other car - and certainly less likely than a brand-new car.
The difference between (a) and (b) is the capital cost. Running costs can be similar.
OTOH:
>>By the middle of January we would be able to pay £5,000 in cash for the next car.
Are you really that short of spare cash? If so, I question whether you should be spendnig every last penny of spare cash on your car.
I don't know why anybody needs to spend that sort of money on a car at the moment. Try ebay item 130276460031 - 57k miles; new cambelt; FSH 2003 Legacy Estate. £1,950.
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I don't know why anybody needs to spend that sort of money on a car at the moment
LondonBus's MD wife for a start, and Stunorthant's "misses" for another. One who is in a top rated profession, while the other is financially stretched [to the extent of saving money on fuel by taking to riding a bicycle] and is buying on credit.
Logic or rational thinking do not enter in to the equation.
My wife is in this category. Despite being a skilled intelligent individual, totally clueless when it comes to vehicles. Car starts making funny noises .... ... And as we know noises are a good sign of potential problems. This category also have problems because they don't read the manual.
I bet she understands her patients very well who treat their health in the way she treats her car!
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We want a car that will do the business. £5k will buy us a modern vehicle via retailer that will do the business.
We're paying cash for the car. Not using credit. And as previously discussed we'd like a newish vehicle that does the business.
We don't have facilities to do car maintenance.
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Not using credit
The credit reference was to Stunorthant's "misses".
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>>We're paying cash for the car.
Apparently only just... You appear to be using your last £5,000 in the world - on the basis that you won't have the money until the middle of January.
If you drive your wheelbarrow into your double-glazed patio door, your central heating blows up, followed by your cooker and your washing machine, and somebody slashes all 8 tyres on your cars - all just as you set off on your fortnight's skiing holiday, how do you come up with the cash?
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Apparently only just... You appear to be using your last £5,000 in the world - on the basis that you won't have the money until the middle of January
Well apart from the money sitting in my cash ISA (which I don't want to withdraw - and lose the tax wrapper), my other half's savings accounts/ISA, and the fact we live in a house we own outright (and therefore have relatively low costs of living)....
We have money. By the middle of January the £5k will sitting free and clear in our bank account. We're in the very nice situation of going out and buying a newish car using our money - not the the bank's!
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