I'm looking at around 2002 models, about £6-8K. Which would be the better overall choice to keep for about 5 years? Both renowned high power 6 cyclinder diesels, the BMW better handling and faster? Mercedes is the better cruiser, but not to say the BMW is anything less than excellent. Or would a 2002 330d be better (c class has no competitor to the 330d)
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I think if you drove the 330d, you'd have to be pretty hard not to fall in love with it. One of the most all round capable cars at any half sensible money IMHO, as long as you don't want lots of interior space.
Big wheels on the Sport models look fantastic, but wreck the ride quality. SE a better bet for comfort / cruising, but they don't look as nice.
A nice late E46 330i or d will be my next car.
Cheers
DP
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I actually do want a 330d but the e320 cdi are very affordable now.
Do 330d sports have 18" wheels? The thing with BMWs is their petrol and diesel engines are equally good. I was considering a 320d but heard about turbo failures and it being only a 4 cylinder engine.
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Auto or manual?
According to the CBCB, MB's autobox are a potential problem area: "The transmission oil cooler of automatics is sited in the radiator matrix, so failure can lead to coolant entering the transmission and destroying it, leaving the owner with a bill of £4k - £6k."
If what you really want is a 330d, I'd have thought the driving style of the 5 series would be much closer than that of the E class. Having driven FIL's 5 series, though, it feels like a much bigger car on the road than you might expect.
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Most automatics have their oil cooler in the radiator, it's not particualrly strange.
What is an issue is that MBs from the early 2000s did have a problem with one particular brand of radiator, where mixing of transmission oil and coolant could happen. Usually, the first sign of this was a juddering from the geabox.
MB can/could perform a test of the automatic transmission fluid to detect traces of anti-freeze.
Better than simply avoiding the car altogether would be to check the correct operation of the gearbox, and either fit a remote gearbox oil cooler, blocking up the radiator mounted one, or by fitting a new radiator which is not subject to this very specific single problem.
An E320 CDI, or an S320 CDI will probably be the replacement for our E300D - but not for a few years yet!
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Do you REALLY want to sink 6-8k in a car that might cost you that much again if something goes wrong?
Look at 1998 models, and limit your capital spend to (I'm guessing now) 1-2k?
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Common, it is not going to cost 8k in repairs, unless you are really, really unlucky and you destroy the whole engine....and you insist on replacing it with a new one.
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I was in this particular quandary a couple of years ago.
I tested a 330D (E46), but found it to be a bit too small on the inside, and there seemed to be a lot of road noise from the 18 inch wheels fitted.
Next up was the E class (W210) BUT these models do suffer from the dreaded rust problems that seemed to affected a number of mercs of this period. The wings, boot lid, doors were affected on all the cars I went to see, to a greater or lesser extent. A real shame, as the engine is really strong and it's a good size.
Then I went to see some 530D's (E39), good size and layout of the cabin, handling not as sharp as the 3 series but to be honest I preferred it, stable but still agile and comfy, and way better than the merc. And the strange thing is, the E39 only weighs about 55kg more than the 3 series
So you can guess which one I bought. 530D auto. With a tuning-box fitted and it'll do 650-700 miles on a tank of juice on a run and crack 60 in just over 7 seconds.
From years of driving Citroens, it's made me enjoy driving again (no offense meant Citroen owners). Can be fun when I want it to be, and relaxing for when I don't.
Just my thoughts, that's all..........
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>>BUT these models do suffer from the dreaded rust problems
Yes, the information I'm not sure about is when did MB do something about rusting W210s, and improve their specifications and processes. Phrased another way, are there any that are "safe"?
I can't imagine MB did nothing about it, because it must be costing them a fortune in body repairs.
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Most things I have read have said avoid Mercedes of this era as they were pretty shoddy.
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I didn't know the e classes had so many problems. I really like the look of them. The old 530d don't look as good in sport form - looks a bit overdone. But the 525d looks good though. Are manuals better than autos in BMWs?
The previous 330d sport looks good including with 18" wheels but I'm not too keen if it affects the ride too much. I have a mk1 focus 115 tdci and its brilliant because of the engine and how the drives. What would a 330d have over a mk1 focus tdci apart from performance? I'd be very interested to know.
Other cars I've considered are:
Jaguar xtype 2.2d
Jag stype 2.7d (looks a bit like a bentley?)
Do the jags have decent diesel engines?
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What would a 330d have over a mk1 focus tdci apart from performance? I'd be very interested to know.
An outside lane sole occupancy permit and a use-of-indicators exemption card ;)
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I think the rust problems in Mercs were finally resolved from Nov 2003 build or so.
Edited by CJay{P} on 12/12/2008 at 15:22
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MB only really solved rust POST 2003 when they adopted galvanised steel.
Persoanlly I would not touch a MB E class of that period: there are LOTS of electrical issues.
I think MB Enthusiasts' Magazine has a buyers guide this month: seen in WHS so read it free.
A whole long list of issues incl Auto Brake Assist which fails after c 80k miles and parts are £800+
Forget old ideas about Mercedes quality. Post 1998 to 2004 they were as bad as Renault but added rust to the problems...
Plus servicing costs are two arms two legs and half a body...
Read HJ Buyers Guide and run away. And the various Mercedes forums.
They are full of issues..
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An outside lane sole occupancy permit and a use-of-indicators exemption card ;)
Thats performance related...
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>>MB only really solved rust POST 2003 when they adopted galvanised steel.
That's the odd thing, because there's more galvanised steel on a W210 than there is on a W124, but, W124s, while they do rot, it's only in old age. I can't imagine that many W210s will reach 20 years of use, while that's a fairly common lifespan for W124s.
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Having looked very closely at a rusty M-B, the problems appear to be two-fold. The primary problem is exceptionally poor steel - rather like the material FIAT used in the '70s. Parts I have seen removed from these cars are rusty all the way through with the rust in laminated layers.
The other problem is unbelievably poor detailing. Plastic undershields with no drain holes or inappropriately positioned holes trap water against the poor steel components. Even the plastic front bumper has a water trap where it meets the wing.
Given these circumstances, paint quality is academic. I had always been an admirer of M-B quality in the past, but I smelled a rat when my brother bought an early A class and I examined it closely. Steering wheel on the opposite side of the car from the rack pinion? Joke.
I think their engineers must have either retired en mass or walked out at the thought of a merger with Chrysler. As far as I can ascertain, BMW have always kept their engineering integrity and have not generally committed these stupidities.
As always though, fashion accessories command unreal prices if you add everything up...
659.
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I think their engineers must have either retired en mass or walked out at the thought of a merger with Chrysler. As far as I can ascertain BMW have always kept their engineering integrity and have not generally committed these stupidities.
Hmmm...E36 steering column anyone? BMW are NOT perfect, in fact they have made a lot of poor engineering designs, but people seem to overlook those.......
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Many MB cars were built in SA. Steel quality there was poor. Apart from Cape Town and Durban , cars do not rust much in SA..(Rather like Fiats built in Italy in the old days)
EDIT
BMWs do not rust as a rule. My E30 was near perfect when 10 years old.
Edited by madf on 12/12/2008 at 18:36
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