This is my third Fiesta, first one was actualyl very cheap to run but the engine was terminaly warn, we got 4000 miles out of it and all it needed was an oil change, new plugs, some brake work for the MOT, spent less than £150 on repairs, car would not start two months after MOT, knowing the engine was knackered I just scrapped it for £80.
Out of all my friends I consider to have the most mechanical knowledge that is the problem, the BIG problem is I do sometimes see problems but let my heart rule my head, and think oh it won't be a problem in my ownership, which really means it will cost me money next week.
My dads Fiesta has been ok, it does have some issues now but nothing that makes it unroadoworthy and it seems to cope with 12k a year easily. His is the same age as mine but on two plates near (VIN both 96). I think the fact the clutch has gone soon after replacing that door latch is what is making me a bit sick now. Normaly I would just think oh new clutch, they go on old cars so what, but I am worried if I don't cut my losses now I will regret it. I do have some emotional attachment to it though, as its the first car I have bought since passing.
I am now in no rush so will jsut take my time in getting a replacement, I am self employed so a loan will be tricky, so a good banger no mroe than 10 years old is the best way to go here.
I feel biter as I had lost £100 on that Corsa too some people will remember, when posting what happened in the test drive people rightly told me to avoid which I did, and still glad I did.
Edited by Rattle on 10/12/2008 at 22:27
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Rattle, cheer up!
You are learning a lot of valuable lessons in how to keep a car on the road cheaply, and you are learning from your mistakes. Your mistakes have not been expensive ones, and will stand you in good stead later on.
If you feel fed up with this, just do a few quick sums on where you'd be if you had gotten easy credit a few years ago and bought a new Fiesta or similar on some sort of hire purchase: thousands of pounds worse off than you are now.
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I suggest looking in the local classifieds for an old Honda that's been owned by an old boy with service history....they can be found and they've been looked after. Might not be trendy but then neither is crawling under a car on a regular basis
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Insurance is massively expensive on older japaneese cars though, I don't know why, but they are coming it at over £100 a month, paying £66 now. Kia Rios are slightly cheaper but they are supposed to be horrible to drive, and there has been no crash tests. New Hyundai accents are ok, but the older ones are not safe according to HJ CBC. Skoda Fabias are too expensive.
What I want is just not in my price range and that is why I have ended up with a dud. I have seen a lot of cheap Astra MK3s which tend all be rust free but I am sure I can be opening another can of worms here.
A Daweoo Lanos might do the trick, as it is mainly GM parts, they are reasonably safe and probably well looked after.
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It's a trade-off, Rattle...you've got to weigh the extra insurance cost against the expense and frustration of having to replace bits. Small cars are fine when they are new but don't stand the test of time as well as more expensive cars. I had a few old Mk. 1 and Mk.2 Escorts on the basis that they were cheap on parts. Not so cheap when you're replacing parts every five minutes though :-(
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Good point, I could live with something Focus size, but anything bigger will cause parking issues for me.
So it is a sub £800 under 10 years old rust free uncool car that is fairly safe, not powerfull, comfortablish, not too bothered about MPG. I would have to free up the money I have tied in my Fiesta first then have a good look round, I won't rush into it this time.
I wish I knew somebody selling a car then it would make this dilema a lot easier, pretty sure I will end the life of my Fiesta though.
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My brother-in-law is selling his Fiat Punto 1.2 due to being made redundant and needs all the cash he can. Well looked after (he's no mechanic so all garage maintained) and it has proved very reliable (unlike his employer!).
I would agree with several other posts - very small cars tend not to fair too well over the years unlike bigger models that appear to cope better with the all the shake-rattle and roll of 1000's of miles on our roads.
I've had Fiesta, Escort and Xsara cars - current is Megan Estate. All (except Megan which is brand new) were about equal in terms of cost of parts compared to mileages and age and initial capital layout.
I travel all over the country with work (so my Megan is clocking up the miles), but I could esaily bring the Punto to wherever you are and prove its relaibaility if you were interested.
This is my first post, so no idea if such an offer is "ethical", or indeed how to make direct contact.
Good luck with whatever you buy next, but I would listen hard to what most folk are saying - replace now without sinking more into it and learn from the process.
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Sorry to hear of your woes, Rattle. You seem to feel you were partly to blame for the failure of the clutch, but it was clearly on the way out anyway.
However, this surprises me: "I am a new driver so I am sure that would have gone some way to burning out the clutch, I have been a bit heavy on it twice, and I ride it at lights (the way I was taught)."
Are drivers really taught to ride the clutch at lights? I thought the best practice was to put the handbrake on, the gear stick in neutral and release the clutch. Anything else is pure laziness, surely, and guaranteed to wear the clutch components.
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Yep but it is something I will change as soon as I get a new car or if a flip and get this clutch fixed ( my sister said she will give me £100 towards the new clutch) as a Christmas present.
It is because you can get away quicker, e.g not have to start putting into gear when the lights change. The way we are taught is to put clutch down, into first gear, hand brake on. When I get a replacement I shall be doing the neutral handbrake on method!
Also thinking about it the couple of times when i felt was heavy I was heavy on the gass trying to get the damn thing to move, I now realise it was because the clutch had been slipping all along.
I think I knew yesterday the clutch was slipping but I thought I would get away with it for a few more months, but today at the junction just revs, more revs, must have ended up putting 4000rpm on it at one point just to try and get the thing to move, and that is when the clutch smell happened, then just instantly after that I heared the bang, which was the spare wheel tray but for a second I thought the engine was blowing up, so turned the ignition of instantly.
It all happened so quickly, why is the car not moving? whats that smell? bang.It actually drove faily well on the way back home, although it was clearly slipping.
Edited by Rattle on 10/12/2008 at 23:20
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I'm teaching my stepson to drive and he also has lessons with an instructor. He rides the clutch at the lights and apparently it's so you are ready to move off when the lights change. A few lessons in mechanical sympathy may be in order here. I hasten to add it's not my clutch he's burning out! ;-)
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However I asked my driving instructor about this, dosn't it burn out the clutch a while back. He said his is on 40k and is still the original clutch, so yes it does shortern the life, but not that quickly it seems. Driving lessons teach no mechanical sympathy at all.
On a second note, does anybody know what caused my first sympton when the car was being really lumpy in 3rd? that could not be the clutch could it? Unless the ECU got confused with the constant gear changing as I was having trouble engaging.
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I'm teaching my stepson to drive and he also has lessons with an instructor. He rides the clutch at the lights and apparently it's so you are ready to move off when the lights change. A few lessons in mechanical sympathy may be in order here.
For now, he should go with what the instructor says. You're right on the mechanical sympathy issues, but the instructor knows what style of driving is required to get through the test.
Once he's got his full licence, he can start being kind to cars again.
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Yep, in a test if he leaves in neutral that is not a minor or fail its perfectly fine. The problem is in a test its all too easy with all the preasure to miss the lights changing till the last minute, then you have to put into gear, and move off, that delays you about 2-3 seconds and that becomes a minor or serious if the lights change as you set off, but 2-3 minors in the same box can become a fail. So inexperienced drivers in a test should always ride the clutch at lights.
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For now he should go with what the instructor says. You're right on the mechanical sympathy issues but the instructor knows what style of driving is required to get through the test.
Quite agree, NW. Procedures have changed somewhat since I took my test, that's why he has additional lessons with an instructor. There's enough for a learner driver to contend with in today's traffic conditions without bothering about wearing his clutch out
cc
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Now that you've got the car in a relatively working order (from what you're saying the only thing wrong with it is the clutch and a buzz from the pump that may or may not be a problem) there are only two options that I can see:-
1) Fix the clutch (after all, the cost to you must be very limited thanks to your sister's generous donation)
2) Buy a new car (and by that I mean new or nearly new)
If you go out and buy another bangernomics car you will end up spending £500 on a car and then have no guarantees about it's condition. You also strike me as someone who can't live with strange noises or broken bits, old cars come with these so you will most likely end up spending more money to put the new banger into top notch condition.
I'm afraid with bangernomics the general rule that I thought was to only write the car off when a bill comes to more than the car is worth. By your description this Fiesta may not be perfect (although it's had a lot of work so should be getting close) but it is certainly worth more than the cost of a clutch change. Let your dad replace his parts with bits from a scrappy!
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That is the other way of thinking.
The car is nice to drive and I have just put two decent tyres on it, the other two tyres are in very good condition. My mechanic says the brakes are fine, but they still make a noise, they are sharp though and certainly never had problems stopping quickly, there is a little clunk from the back which may have been the spare wheel tray which fell of tonight. I was planning on getting a second opinion on the brakes after Christmas just to make certain. The engine is good, no smoke (apart from in this weather), it is not using coolant, does not use oil, does not use brake fluid.
I would want the brake pipes done though if I am spending more money on it. Also before the clutch burnt out it was running lumpy in third? could this to do with the clutch or could I suddenly find myself paying for a new clutch only to still be runny lumpy and more big bills?
I am going to ask my mechanics opinion, he has told us to throw cars away in the past even when we have offered him the work, I am just feeling emberassed as I am at the moment his number one customer.
I will ask him how much a clutch will be, but if I remeber rightly the plate is about £70, he will charge full rate for thid job no doubtso that is £90 labour for three hours. On top of this brake pipes will be a good £60-£70 and there may or not be a potential issue with the suspension.
I could buy a new car and find it burns 1 litre of oil a day, and the cambelt could snap. I think it really does depend how much a new clutch will cost. It has always started first time in these very good mornings so I am confident the engine itself is reliable.
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Rattle: a car whose clutch isn't worth replacing isn't worth having. A car that's worth having is worth a new clutch. That anyway is my instinct. If it's all right in all the other ways - and I must say you are quite good at making it sound well dodgy - then get the clutch done by a decent independent if you have found one yet. It shouldn't cost more than about £150 including proper parts. Off the top of my head really, but don't let anyone soak you ral money for it.
A clutch is a consumable part, designed to wear out. Bad driving will get through one very quickly, good driving will make it last for ages.
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Thanks Lud, I am sort of swaying more to looking into having this done now, because as Blue pointed out if I bought a new car I will find things wrong with it. I had budgeted for new pipes and about £100 for possible suspension issues in the new year but the clutch has just thrown me a little as I did not expect it so soon.
I used to drive my old Fiesta a lot and I was even worse with that, had no clutch issues at all so it is fair to say the clutch was on its way out from day one and my dad did not spot it (I can't blame him, not many people would spot a slipping clutch in its easy days).
The buzzing noise could be the fuel pump (i.e lumpyness) but am I right in thinking a fuel pump for this engine is pennies and an easy job?
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3 hours to fit a fiesta clutch???? naw..
I had a mark one fiesta, and had a clutch put in over a lunch hour... AND had time to drive to the chippy, buy 2 portions, drive back and eat said chips along with the techy who did the clutch...
id say he did it in 15mins start to finish!
I myself have done an escort 3 clutch in an hour and a half, at home on axle stands.
Rattle.... I think you expect to much from a banger... the whole poing of running a banger is not spending money you dont NEED to spend on them.... keep them legal, but learn to live with small faults and buy budget! £39 each for 2 tyres? Im sure you could have got them cheaper than that!
I have nearly always run bangers, the only time I didnt, cost me big time!
I paid £4k on the car, only for the cam belt pulley to break taking a set of valves with it (belt changed 1500 miles before) followed 9 months later by the auto box exploding - at the point I cut my losses and sold the car as it was... I lost a lot of money there....
My last 3 cars have cost me; £250, I ran for a year and sold for £250 (was too expensive on petrol........next one £200 and scrapped due to rot after 9 months, and the current one £500....
New cars? no thanks...
1/ lose to much in depreciation
2/ have to pay to have serviced.. I can do myself....
3/ too much to go wrong.... I believe in KISS.... Keep It Simple, Stupid... all the old cars I had, with points, carbs etc ONLY once did I get towed home - crankshaft broke on an old viva!
the amount of times Ive been towed home due to ECU failure, or some other engine management fault? at least 4 times in the last 5 years.... give me points and a carb any day!
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Swiss sadly mine is the hydraulic kind and I think these are harder to replace then cable clutches found on older Fiestas? When I bought the car I expected to have to spend around £250 on it before the MOT, and another £200 at MOT, I knew it would cost me money, but there was a pay as you go element, e.g I could get none urgent jobs done after earning more money than I expected, but with a loan I would have to repay it each month regardless of how much I earn.
Do I agree with about new cars, finding a balance is the problem. The tyres I bought when I decided to tkeep the car long term, rather than paying £15 each for some remoulds plus fitting it seemed to make sense to buy two brand new good brand ones. I was nearly killed bya faulty tyre was a kid so this is not something I will shrink on. I was also busy at the time with jobs so hunting round for cheap used tyres would have cost me money.
I have been pricing up plates and I can get a kit for £30, how I do know if its a decent brand? Or does the brand really matter? I only do 3000 miles a year if that, and will only keep it another year anyway. I still have not decided to keep or sell, there is a lot of good things about this car as well as bad.
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I would stick with bangers for a while Rattle. I`ve seen people really suffering with monthly car re-payments and not able to live a normal life as a result.
If you did the clutch on the current car - it should be `as new` and robust enough to deal with your inexperience on pulling out of junctions. How long is the MOT though and is it expected to get through on areas such as bodywork? Surely too, there`s nothing better than Ford for cheap parts and availability at scrap yards?
Whether you keep this, or get another banger, another couple of years will transform your driving and confidence, greatly reduce the risk of a prang and put you in a better position for something better.
Perhaps (with respect) the other thing is to try to stop examining your car too closely or worrying about it. `Looking for trouble` because you almost always find it on a car of this age.
If you haven`t already, why not get full breakdown cover for a year? - let them take the strain a bit (getting your money back) and giving the confidence to undertake some long distance trips.
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My first car was a banger - a Fiesta Mark 1. In 18 months it had new exhaust, engine mount, front brakes, couple of tyres, a clutch and I changed the thermostat.
Back then about £300 of repairs - same as I paid for the car.
I had no problems paying for the mechanical bits because even at 14 years old and almost 100,000 as it was very reliable, burnt no oil and did the job.
What killed the car was the floorpan going through - at this point I knew it was time to say goodbye, but I was reluctant as it ran so well.
If the bodywork is fine get the clutch fixed.
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>If the bodywork is fine get the clutch fixed.
The bodywork may not be fine - Rattle has already done the sill(s) ...
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It sounds eminently scrapworthy, although I fully expect Rattle to waste hundreds of pounds more on it, including the £100 given by his lovely sibling, which money could be used to buy a decent old car to replace this _thing_.
Still, it'll keep the post rate up. I bet the next problem will be something expensive steering-related, or expensive and electrical. What do you guess? I bet there's something expensive and rust-related right now!
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>>What do you guess?
The exhaust will start to blow. And a quick trip to Kwik Fit to have it done will sort it. (£110)
However they will identify a crucial need for four new shocks "spot the difference, or your money back and the old ones refitted". As it's a safety issue, Rattle will, quite rightly, immediately pay them £150 for the set. Having spent so much on the car, he might as well have his tracking done at the same time "just in case" because he "can't be too careful" (£65).
And a bargain £25 oil change into the mix too. It's only £350, total, and the car was so cheap he won't mind spending it.
That's if Rattle actually exists, of course. I'm sure I've seen his style before - bell boy?
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You can see why I'm flipping the Polo. It's not the first £100 you spend fixing stuff on an old car that's the problem financially. It's the successive series of problems (at a £100 a throw) which pop up after you spend the first £100.
Wouldn't it be sensible to work on the principle of having a maximum spend rate for a banger - (say £150 on repairs a year) and once you exceed the spend rate, ditch the banger?
Edited by LondonBus on 11/12/2008 at 13:01
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I'm sure I've seen
The thought had occurred, but without any particular names.
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It hadn't occurred to me, until you sowed the seed of doubt...........
Has Rattle ever criticised lorry drivers? ;>)
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Look at it this way:
You are not contemplating making a long term investment, it doesn't matter what the car is worth. If £150 buys you motoring for a year, it is cheap even if the car then collapses in a heap. (And if you then buy another similar, you will have a spare good clutch kit just in case) Everything you have previously spent on the car is irrelevant - the decision rests solely on the likely return from this £150, compared with the probably much larger amount you would have to spend on some other car.
And there is a chance you will be lucky. There is now much less to go wrong than on another unknown car, and, which is important, you have knowledge about the state of your car, which you don't about any other.
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I don't think I'd trust a clutch kit for thirty quid.
I'd suggest it's time you got down and got dirty. Why are you thinking of changing the brake pipes. Get a stiff bristle brush and a pot of grease, get under the car, brush loose dirt off the brake pipes and smear them with grease.
With the money you're saving there and your sister's donation, you've paid for the new clutch.
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Rattle. Bad luck.
You may well be temperamentally unsuited to running an old car. Old cars rattle and squeak, they have tyres that are more than 2 years old... And they're fine. Absolutely fine.
Learn to love second hand tyres; learn to be grateful for the existence of twin brakeing circuits. Your brakes won't ever fail. And if they do, you've got two sets of brake pipes anyway.
The judder in third might just be a slipping clutch.
There's a SAAB on the classifieds on here for £95.
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I agree with CP
I too would swallow the bill and change the clutch. You are going to have to spend significantly more to get another car, and who's to say that won't have an expensive failure in a few months?
£150 is a lot of money to find, but when you consider that many people spend upwards of three times that in a month to finance a car which is haemorrhaging value by the week, yours is still among the most financially shrewd way of motoring that exists today, even with the clutch change cost factored in.
After spending this money, the car could run for years without any further significant cost. You just don't know.
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>>I too would swallow the bill and change the clutch.
As the Irishman said, "I wouln't start from here."
If I were OP, I'd have sold the car the moment I brought it home and suggested spending £200 on it; it's been nothing but trouble since. There's gratitude for you...
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Sorry to hear of your troubles. Buying cheap cars is a bit of an art form - sometimes you get a masterpiece, other times a bit of tat.
I had great success with 1980's jap cars ( non-rusty ones ). My best buy was a 1986 Mazda 323 1.3. Had two months MOT but went straight through. Cost me £200 off ebay, only had 70k on clock and full history. Never went wrong and was reasonable way to get about if a little old hat.
My rule with buying old cars is buy pre-electronics generation as expensive repairs are much rarer.
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Just poke about in Autotrader to see what's available for £500 quid or less, with MOTs and tax, even. tinyurl.com/626qof tinyurl.com/6pdobx tinyurl.com/5jvg26
There're plenty of cars about.
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Those guys at Cheltenham Trade Centre seem to have got the right idea to get punters in, FT, I've been meaning to post about them for a few days. All their cars - even the £500 ones - come with:
Full tank of petrol,
12 months warranty,
New Cambelt
6 months tax
12 months MOT
And red-hot cheap prices too.
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>Buying cheap cars is a bit of an art form - sometimes you get a masterpiece, other times a bit of tat.
But Stu - if you don't have a nose for art, you can't tell the masterpieces from the tat, and you should maybe take better advice? But I suppose we all have to make our own mistakes in order to learn from them.
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