An ADI yesterday told me to turn this obsession into a positive and play a game always making sure you don't go over 30mph in 30's but also without realising it. He said to get used to how 30 feels so you will hardly need to use the speedo.
Last night I got myself into a real panic about it, but I am going to try and relax now. My dad does 12k a year and has only ever got one NIP and that was on the way back from a funeral on a 350 round trip.
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An ADI yesterday told me to turn this obsession into a positive and play a game always making sure you don't go over 30mph in 30's but also without realising it. He said to get used to how 30 feels so you will hardly need to use the speedo.
And remember that it's a limit, not a target. Half the problem comes from trying not to do anything less than 30.
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Half the problem comes from trying not to do anything less than 30.
What problem? The problem of the widespread massacres and great worldwide psychic suffering caused daily by careless psychopaths driving round town at 31mph?
For heaven's sake give it a rest. You mimsers are far, far more boastful than any proper driver I have ever met. 'Ooooh, aren't we nauseatingly respectable and bon enfant?'
Yes, you are, utterly nauseatingly. Bad cess to you. And may your particulate filters reward you by clogging twice an hour.
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>> Half the problem comes from trying not to do anything less than 30. What problem? The problem of the widespread massacres and great worldwide psychic suffering caused daily by careless psychopaths driving round town at 31mph?
Relax Lud, before you blow a gasket or get eaten by these monsters which you appear to be starting to see everywhere. The problem I was referring to was the problem described by the original poster who was having difficulty in co-ordinating two tasks.
And no, I don't have a particulate filter, so you're out of luck on that front. ;p
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these monsters which you appear to be starting to see everywhere
heh heh NW. It is not I that see monsters everywhere but others, the sort of people who imagine that every speed limit violation is reckless and dangerous by definition.
I won't cite Goebbels because you've bagged him. Will Ieng Sary do?
(nasty snigger)
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heh heh NW. It is not I that see monsters everywhere but others the sort of people who imagine that every speed limit violation is reckless and dangerous by definition.
Dear me, Lud, you're still seeing more monsters. :(
I don't believe and don't argue that every speed limit violation is reckless and dangerous. Many are dangerous, but some are anti-social rather than dangerous, some have other adverse effects, and some are harmless.
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And remember that it's a limit not a target.
I've always thought there's a bit of doublespeak in that one. You will get marked down on your driving test for not making progress if you drive below the limit for no good reason. If I wanted a word to describe something that I needed a good reason not to achieve, I think "target" would fit the bill very well.
Half the problem comes from trying not to do anything less than 30.
There are bowling ball drivers who reach the 30 limit and sit at 30 all the way through, regardless of what's going on around them. They give the impression of not being aware of any of the good reasons why the target might not be achieveable right now. They frighten me. Not only for the sake of those around them at the time, but more generally because I worry that they may feel that, as long as they don't let the needle rise above 30 then they are most, if not all, of the way to ensuring that they don't put anyone at risk.
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"There are bowling ball drivers who reach the 30 limit"
When I used to use the M67 at the weekends years ago I used to see this on the motorway. Where it goes from two to three lanes at Hyde you'd get a driver doing 50mph in the left lane which would then become the middle lane. Would they move over to the left - no. To make a point I'd indicate and go all the way around and back to the middle lane and still they didn't change lane.
Then at the end of the M67 they would continue at the same 50mph all the way along Hyde Road despite the lower speed limit!
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You will get marked down on your driving test for not making progress if you drive below the limit for no good reason.
I can see the point if you are doing 20 on a clear road, but are you really gonna be in trouble with the tester for doing 27 or 28?
There are bowling ball drivers who reach the 30 limit and sit at 30 all the way through regardless of what's going on around them.
They frighten me too. The OP seemed to be on the right track by being concerned that too much time looking at the dial was leaving too little time to observe what was happening on the road.
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I can see the point if you are doing 20 on a clear road but are you really gonna be in trouble with the tester for doing 27 or 28?
Well I'm not a tester so I don't know, but I would have thought (and hoped) that within an mph or two is fine. I didn't think the "it's a limit not a target" message was aimed at people who, given a clear road, are worried about doing 28 instead of 30. I thought it was aimed at the bowling balls who haven't realised that sometimes 30 is much too fast. And in that case I think the sentiment is admirable - it's just that the words used aren't quite the right ones. Something like "it's a target not a requirement" would seem more correct.
But then I'm quite happy with the concept of a target that, due to circumstances at the time, often can't be achieved. Perhaps to some people that comes across as a contradiction.
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It'd be better if more cars had the sort of head-up speed display found in a Toyota Yaris or Citroën C4 rather than the old-fashioned peer-through-the-spokes-of-the-steering-wheel dials which are still fitted to most new cars.
For knowing your instantaneous speed at a glance they are definitely easier, but I just can't get the hang of driving with them. I've driven a C3 with a digital speedo, and I had a Yaris as a courtesy car just the other day and I really don't like it.
I find it much harder to judge accelerating up or braking down to a particular speed (up to 68 on joinging a motorway, or down from 58 to 28 approaching a village from an NSL, or from some lower speed back up to 28 as the road opens up after passing a hazard for example) with only the instantaneous number. Overshooting or undershooting the target speed not only risks violating the posted limit, but also interferes with beautiful smooth driving perfection as you brake or accelerate to correct the error.
I find the trend of the needle is an invaluable aid to judgement and timing, and it also feels much easier to detect and monitor in the peripheral vision.
I don't think I'd have a problem with a big digital readout for the number if I could have a traditional needle too.
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>You don't have to drive with the needle precisely on the dot of 30mph.
Indeed you don't - because of what has been said above, it is safe to travel at an indicated 32 (at least in any car I have owned) without worrying about being caught on camera (I say that because I have not yet been). I believe makers of speedos, or makers of cars which use them, design them to over-read by about 5%.
As to French cars, I presume they build them to indicate Km. The dual-calibration dial introduces another variable.
Edited by Andrew-T on 28/11/2008 at 16:00
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When I tried putting the speedo on my Mondeo into diagnostic mode and select the digital readout, my obversations were:
- The needle has some "inertia" and lifting off does not see it dro straight away whereas the digital readout changed instantly
- The digital display seemed closer to the sat nav speed
I don't feel I have to glance at the speed all the time. If you're finding this difficult you could always get a GPS unit that projects a heads up display of your speed in front of you.
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The other thing to do is find out what gear your car is most comfortable in at 30 and use that gear - after a while you'll get to know what the car feels and sounds like at that speed and will not have to keep glancing at the speedo.
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i once asked a Policeman with a hand-held radar type gun thingy (very nicely) if he would mind "checking" my speedo reading for me. He seemed only too happy to oblige, so i drove towards him at as close to 30 as i could, he registered me at 27mph, so in a 30 zone i knew i was ok if i inadvertently crept up to 32 ish.
Billy
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Think I'd have asked him to check my attempt at 30mph in a 40mph zone. :)
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I was of the opinion that speedos were allowed to read up to 10% over, so I recently strapped a TomTom to the bike and decided to find out. At 100 mph on the clock, the GPS read 91mph. However, at 60 mph, the GPS read 56 to 57mph and at 30 mph, the bike clock was more or less accurate. I then tried a similar run in the car and found that again, the car speedo was more or less accurate at 30mph but way out (9%) at speeds up to about 90.
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I found this on the Mondeo using sat nav and/or the digital mph display. The faster you went the more the speedo over read. Bear in mind the speedo is analogue in display only and is displaying what it is told. The needles have no physical connection to speed, revs, fuel level, temperature etc.
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If I remember correctly, long before EU requlations the law was that the speedo could not under read and could over read by up to 10%. At that time, late 60s - early 70s there was a belief that car manufacturers would in fact calibrate the speedo to over read so that the owner would have an optimistic view of the performance. It was also said that the mileage recroder would over read to give an optimistic idea of fuel consumption.
I wonder does the same thing goe on today with onboard MPG computers ?
Edited by lotusexige on 28/11/2008 at 17:29
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LOTS of variables involved in this one.
If you compare true speed to indicated speeds - as some magazines do - you'll often see that the %age over-read differs between speeds. So at 50 you may be 4% over, but at 30, it may be 7% over.
The local myth/excuse of "They'll allow you 10% leeway" keeps coming up.
But often the boy-racers have shoved on a set of bling wheels/tyres which will really stuff the calibartion, as they are not the same rolling circumference!
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Maybe I'm uniquely talented (LOL) but I don't have a problem with combining observational skills and maintaining a particular speed. For me, the speedo is another thing to be monitored along with what's in the mirrors, what's happening around me and anticipating what the doddering old fool in the beige Daewoo in front is likely to do next.
I don't hang around when I'm driving, but the only speeding tickets I've received up to now were on occasions when I knew I was speeding. Whether the speed limits made sense is, of course, a different argument.
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I agree Bagpuss. No need to look at it all the time. If you do then one could argue you're not even in proper control?
Only caught speeding once (don't speed now and only ever did on a motorway) but that was when I was doing 35,000 miles per annum. A bit of extra mph saved a lot of time overall. South Wales to Manchester was quite quick at times.
Ironically, it was at a weekend when I got done and I know I was speeding. But the traffic cops on a motorway in South Wales were out on a clear day with not many cars about. No debate though - I was speeding that day. Still have the points on the paper counterpart even though this was nearly 10 years ago ;-)
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I now rigidly stick to all speed limits, even the "we've removed the roadworks and forgotten to take away the 80km/h signs" ones. In my present job I am absolutely dependent on the car, a ban would be a disaster. Nice to drive at very high speed on the unrestricted autobahn sections though!
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Still have the points on the paper counterpart even though this was nearly 10 years ago ;-)
you're not coming up to a 10 year change on your licence and forgotten about it, are you? Not trying to be a clever dick..but...there's going to be loads of people get caught out by this. If you've still got the old paper copy, then you've obviously not changed your photocard licence, as they would have swapped the paper bit as well...and...you have to change the photo card every 10 years, to update your photo.
current cost £17.50...checked today with DVLA... as dug out my paper copy for a courtesy car arrival and noticed it to be in v.poor condition. If you change in your paper copy early, you've got to include the credit card type one as well, so you might as well send another up to date photo with it and they'll start you off with another 10 years from that date.
The photo cards are only valid for 10 years, whereas the old paper only d/l's were valid until you were 70 yrs old.
Edited by Westpig on 28/11/2008 at 18:18
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Thanks for the warning Westpig. I actually got the points February 1999 and got my paper license replaced with a photo one in June 1999. So license needs replacing in 2009. I have moved since but not before the points would have expired. I have been and presented license after an accident and the officer (on tape) said it was clean.
No need to change if I don't have to. Technically I have no pints. Others might appreciate your warning :-)
Edited by rtj70 on 28/11/2008 at 18:32
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I have moved since but not before the points would have expired.
No need to change if I don't have to. Technically I have no pints. Others might appreciate your warning :-)
If you have moved house, you NEED a new licence!
www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/Need...8
''You must tell the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) immediately of any changes to your name, address or both. You can update your driving licence online or send it to DVLA for amendment. A new licence will be issued free of charge unless your photograph?s due for renewal.''
So you MAY get lucky and get a free one?
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Thanks Swiss Tony... I have had a new licence since moving in 2000 but the points would have still been on it. So that people don't think I am illegal:
- Points on licence in Feb 1999
- New photo licence in June 1999 (when they came out?)
- Moved in Feb 2000 and so get a new licence
- Points still on licence of course...
- Accident in November 2004 - need to produce said licence.. licence accepted as "clean and no points on it"
- Still have the same licence today from 2000 and will get a new photo/licence for June 2009
It still has the points as they were still active at the time. What I was saying is no need to change after the points no longer apply. They are on there but cannot be taken into account.
Now back to the Speedo thread.... thanks for the concern. Rob
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I honest cant say ive ever had this problem of fixating on the speedo unless im in a car I dont know and ive yet to learn its particular levels of speed sensation and noise in various gears.
A quick glance should be all that is ever needed. After that you just maintain your speed. Neither of these actions are especially taxing. Any experienced driver should have this skill set sorted. Newer drivers, crack on and get it learnt, there are far harder aspects to driving.
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A place where I've had a problem recently was on the A511 from Ashby de la Zouch to Burton on Trent, a single carriageway stretch of road with a limit mainly 30 mph but some 40 mph stretches and 9 speed cameras in the space of mabye 7 miles (first time I've ever driven on that stretch of road). Upon reaching Burton after regularly glancing at my speedo, turning west onto the A444, it was dark, had a youth in dark clothing run across the road in front of me, I would have seen him a split second sooner but I had just been regularly glancing down at my speedo for the last 15 minutes so I didn't see him as soon as I would have because I was still glancing down at my speedo every few seconds. And they call them safety cameras.
I know that I will probably get the "You should be able to judge your speed" comments but thats not that easy when it's dark, you're an on an unknown road an you're trying not to creep over 30 mph.
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I know that I will probably get the "You should be able to judge your speed" comments but thats not that easy when it's dark you're an on an unknown road an you're trying not to creep over 30 mph.
In the dark, on an unfamiliar road; yes, there's a lot to concentrate on, and well done spotting the person crossing the road. But if sticking to the limit was that much of a distraction, why not reduce speed so that you could check the dial less frequently and have a little more reaction time?
I'm not trying to criticise your driving here, just to suggest a solution.
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>>It'd be better if more cars had the sort of head-up speed display found in a Toyota Yaris..
A good point. The first thing I noticed while driving a Yaris recently was how clear the speedo was and how well it was positioned. I could easily see what speed I was travelling at without taking my eyes off the road.
Clk Sec
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