The A1(M) northbound tunnel Hatfield Tunnel will close from July 2009 until May 2010 and then the southbound tunnel will then be closed until April 2011.
The Highways Agency propose to operate a contra-flow system for traffic on the A1(M) when each of the tunnels is closed.
The closures are to make the tunnel compliant with the Disability Discrimination Act.
preview.tinyurl.com/572t5d
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Am I alone in thinking that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, on two counts.
First that a tunnel has to comply with the Disability Discrimination Act.
Second that it takes a year to, according to the linked article, lower emergency doors, paint the walls, install some matrix signs, CCTV, some loudspeakers and install a fire alarm.
Edited by james86 on 02/11/2008 at 16:30
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Disingenuous to blame Disability Discrimination Act - surely this is a widening of the tunnels to work with the widening of the M25 and preventing future bottle-necks?
While they are doing that they are going to take the opportunity to lower the emergency doors - which would have to be rebuilt anyway if they are widening the road. Painting the walls, installing signs, CCTV, loudspeakers, enabling radio signals and automatic fire alarms are just to do with up-dating the safety in the tunnels.
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There is no widening of the A1(M) tunnels as part of these works.
If you think that the Disability Discrimination Act is the newspaper putting a spin on a story, how about a more official document - preview.tinyurl.com/626kqy (it is a pdf)
Edited by AF on 02/11/2008 at 17:47
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Agree that closing each tunnel for 11 months seems over long - though as AF's link above shows lighting, drainaige and fire detection kit (amongst other things) are also being upgraded.
Why however is it ridiculous to require a road tunnel to be DDA compliant?
Edited by Bromptonaut on 02/11/2008 at 18:08
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>Closing each tunnel for 11 months seems over long <
It'll be like railway timetables - the last leg of a journey includes an allowance for recovering lost time, so the chance of late arrival is much reduced (and penalty fines saved). When the tunnels are ready 'ahead of schedule' everyone gets a pat on the back.
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Each of those tunnels is much wider than the two-way, heavily trafficked tunnel I took under the Alps some years ago, St Gotthard I think and very full of exhaust too. If they won't accommodate at least two lanes in each direction I'm a Dutchman, as I remember them. Everyone howls through them like shot through a gun barrel. I have never known them crowded (but then I haven't done any recent rush-hour commuting through them).
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The cost to UK businesses is going to be quite significant but our political masters couldn't give a damn. I don't know why we put up with this carp because the yanks sure as heck wouldn't.
It took C.C. Meyers 66 days to rebuild the flyover on I10 after the LA Northridge quake in 1994.
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=54...7
They got a big "early completion" bonus but the real costs of keeping a freeway closed that carries 350,000 vehicles a day meant that it was worth it.
Kevin...
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Anywhere else in the 'First' world a tunnel like that could be built from scratch in 2 years, once the planning issues and land purchase was resolved. Is it actually a tunnel or a cutting with a roof over it? A technique that was used in the early days of the London Underground, known as "Cut and Over" I think.
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Bromptonaut>>Why however is it ridiculous to require a road tunnel to be DDA compliant?
Per se, it isn't for future constructions. However requiring retrospective changes to an existing structure is.
(An acquaintance owns a climbing wall. The disabled loo he was required to put in continues to be unused. Strangely enough...)
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Mapmaker. We had to get a special dispensation NOT to provide disabled access to the moving platform and aircraft cockpit of a flight simulator I used to work in; there were also discussions about a toilet and washing/shower facilities!
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>Known as "Cut and Over" I think.<
Cut and Cover, actually, AS ...
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As far as I can see, based on the schedule of works, the only thing I can see that could actually be required for continued operation of the tunnel as is (which is more than adequate) is the overhaul of the drainage system
The rest is not required and is a waste of time and effort.
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>Known as "Cut and Over" I think.
I used have a boss who had his hair like that....
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Yet another construction project taking as many months in the UK as it would weeks in any other country (cf. current Luton Airport road improvements). Massive prolonged disruption for hundreds of thousands of people and businesses -- a cost unacknowledged by public-sector accounting systems and to which local and central government seems oblivious. I feel another letter to my MP (Peter Lilley) brewing up and I hope others will consider doing the same.
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I would guess there might be something in it for our glorious M'way builders?
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Perhaps they are waiting for Jonathan Ross to be available on the cheap come re-opening time?
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I heard about this closure over the weekend. Looking on our politically correct government web site, I got this as being the main reason to close the tunnel for 2 years
4.1 Civils - Emergency doors within the tunnel are to be lowered to carriageway
level to accommodate requirements of the Disability Discrimination Act.
Check it out at
coins.welhat.gov.uk/ViewSelectedDocument.asp?Docum...1
Surely one cheaper solution is to put signs at the tunnel entrance "NO DISABLED ACCESS". Alternative route via Galleria.
Has this country gone stark raving mad? This is surely political correctness gone totally over the top.
Millions of people to be delayed for 2 years to pander to the PC brigade. What about increased emissions effect on global warming as a result of 2 years of conjestion.
I will be planning an alternative route which I'm sure thousands of other driver will be as well so all the villages in S. Herts had better be prepared for 2 years of traffic chaos
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Surely the point is that if a disabled person's car breaks down in the tunnel, they need to be able to access the emergency doors (like any other user), hence the need to lower the door thresholds?
Blame the original designers if anyone.
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Wouldn't a fire/crash in the tunnel mean the cars were so close that anyone with a wheelchair would be unable to open their doors far enough to use it? I can see the point in not treating disabled folk as second-class citizens but surely common-sense should prevail in some situations.
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>>Surely the point is that if a disabled person's car breaks down in the tunnel, they need to be able to access the emergency doors (like any other user)
I think the point is that there is an alternative for those who might have difficulty escaping - the parallel A1001 which is a reasonable alternative to part-closing the A1(M) for two years.
I doubt if this is mandated by the DDA anyway. The DDA requires "reasonable" efforts to make facilities accessible to disabled people., summarised quite well by the RNIB site - tinyurl.com/9ws7vt
I am involved in running a village hall, among other things. If we had done everything recommended in the access audit we had, we would have had to knock the place down and start again. What we did was reasonable, and defendable - we built a lavatory for the disabled and we have ramp access to the main part of the building. The washing up sink is not accessible from a wheelchair - the recommendation was that it should be about two feet off the ground, a suggestion we were happy to ignore.
Edited by Manatee on 13/01/2009 at 20:14
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DDA is not just about wheelchair users or "disabled drivers" etc. Passengers may also have limited mobility. They may be in buses or not even see themselves as disabled.
If this tunnel cannot be safely and quickly evacuated in an emergency then it needs to be modernised. As its only about tenty years old the original designers (or maybe the corner cutters in the Tranport Ministry) should be in the dock.
Whether the job could be done quicker/cheaper is a different question.
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The current A1001 is sheer, b1oody luxury compared to when it was 'The Great North Road', back when I were a lad.
Aye.
Edited by mojolicious on 13/01/2009 at 22:17
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Go on - please share the best route for commuters when the hatfield tunnel is closed. How much longer do you think our journeys will be - 20 mins, 30 mins more, or more...???
Concerned commuter who wants to know if I have to look for another job.
50 mins commute is already bad enough....
thanks :-)
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Hi, i'm currently studying at the University of Hertfordshire which is located 200 yards from the Hatfield Tunnel, I regularly commute to University from London. I normally take around 15 mins to commute from Apex corner to the Hatfield tunnel. Department of Estates, Hospitality and Contract Services at my University has issued the following message recently:
"The Highways Agency has advised us that the works are being carried out to:
? Improve Motorway safety
? Minimise future maintenance costs
? Upgrade tunnel to comply with new European standards
There are 4 phases to the work. During all phases a 40mph speed restriction will be implemented enforced by average speed cameras.
Phase 1 ? Work will start early May 2009 and finish July 2009 ? both tunnels will be open but with a 40mph speed restriction.
Phase 2 ? Work will start July 2009 and finish May 2010. During this period the northbound tunnel will be closed and a contra flow system will operate through the southbound tunnel.
Phase 3 ? Work will start May 2010 and finish March 2011. During this period the southbound tunnel will be closed and a contra flow system will operate through the northbound tunnel.
Phase 4 ? Work will start in March 2011 and finish April 2011 ? both tunnels will be open but with a 40mph speed restriction.
The Highways Agency have informed us that they anticipate a 10 ? 20 minute delay at peak times on the A1 (M) during this period."
The only restriction that will be there is a 40mph speed limit.
Edited by Mr KP on 12/05/2009 at 23:30
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There's a lot of spin here.
The A1(M) tunnel is c.20 years old. Fire regs have tightened across Europe in the light of fires in the Alpine Tunnels. All road tunnels therefore are potentially subject to upgrade. As per the report linked elsewhere, the works at Hatfield include a mass of other works - such as improving drainage, installing dot matrix signs - everything you'd expect on a modern motorway.
Compliance with the DDA is tucked away in the works - its only one small element. I work for a large public organisation connected with highways and public transport and trust me, compliance with the DDA tends to be included on major works where possible - and financially sensible.
I note that a contraflow will operate.
With respect to comments elsewhere - new build tends to be quicker than works on existing infrastructure - simply because you can get a clear run; modern highway standards for temporary works are quite rightly stringent.
Here's the signage standards for temporary works:
www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/tsmanual/tsmchap8part...f
and
www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/tsmanual/tsmchap8part...f
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The point is ITS NOT REQUIRED
Its never flooded, its never caught fire, its not a thin long alpine tunnel - its barely 1/2 mile long and it very wide, and you dont need *PFD* dot matrix signs in it.
Its fine leave the *PFD* thing alone.
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The safety of the tunnel is being increased here and granted they are taking the oppurtunity at the same time to modernise the tunnel so they really they are killing two birds with one stone.
It is needed. If a preventable accident ever happened because these works weren't carried out the public would go crazy.
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There's also a practical issue that the EU regs on tunnels make safety improvements a legal requirement.
To say that there's been no fire in the tunnel, ergo you don't need to upgrade the safety system misses the point.
I've never been in a road accident. Does that mean I don't need to wear a seat belt?
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Wouldn't it just be cheaper to put large signs at regular intervals before the tunnel warning disabled drivers or people with disabled passengers to take the long way round or find their insurance cover invalidated?
This suggestion is not meant to be deliberately discriminatory - just practical.
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I just thought I'd let all those using this stretch of road that (as of Sunday 7th June 09) there was a pair of specs cameras just after the first 40mph sign on the northbound carriageway, pointing about 50m or so BEFORE the speed limit sign.
There wasn't any notice beforehand, e.g. 1/2 mile until 40mph speed limit, etc, (its not easy to spot the sign or camera until your right on top of it), so slow down early (after the junction for Welham Green, about a mile before the tunnel) as you may be snapped even though you are below the speed limit by the first sign.
I have emailed the Highways Agency about this 5 days ago, but haven't yet received any reply.
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I understand that by lowering the doors gives easier wheelchair access - but how will the wheelchair-bound manage the stairs to escape a fire in the tunnel????
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They ought to install GPS repeaters in the southbound tunnel while they're at it. This might assist the madmen bombing through there at 90mph, losing their signal then veering across 3 lanes when it comes back and they realise they're just about to miss the A405 exit!
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They ought to install GPS repeaters
There's no such thing I'm afraid. GPS receivers don't work in the way you seem to think.
What people need is some common sense :-)
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Well I stand corrected. My understanding of how GPS works is based on the time signal from the satellites getting to the receiver to work out distance. If a repeater is used this will change how GPS actually works - i.e. your position will be calculated as the position of the receiver that is sending on the signals.
But this was a thread on a tunnel closure so we'll leave GPS for now... before someone points out the repeaters are illegal in the UK etc. ;-)
Edited by rtj70 on 14/07/2009 at 17:33
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wow two years, i usually use the A1 but think i will have to re-route
thanks for the poster for the heads up
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You would have thought a new tunnel could be bored and finished in two years. Seems a very long time. It must need major refurbishment.
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I think those tunnels were simply dug out as a cutting and then covered up, rather than 'bored' as such. That's what they look like anyway.
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>>wow two years, i usually use the A1 but think i will have to re-route
But you'll also need to avoid M1 J13.
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They were built as 'cut and cover' but it took an awful long time and created massive disruption in the area. B.Ae were still operating at the time and they received a lot in compensation for loss of production - people couldn't get into work on time, deliveries couldn't be made etc. At least this time the road will still be useable, albeit restricted. If it gets really bad I dare say the A10 will become an alternative for those heading into North London or for the M25 - just all the traffic lights and speed cameras to contend with before you get there.
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Let's take this to the "N" th degree - I'd love to see what they're going to have to do with the Rotherhithe tunnel, Blackwall and Dartford tunnel -non of which would a disabled person manage to escape from.
Especially the first two tunnels they'd have to make them single lanes, JUST IN CASE a disabled driver breaks down and NEEDS to get out.
I just hope they've factored this into the long winded Hindhead tunnel !!
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