Sounds horrendous.
It puts into perspective discussion on parking fines, blocked driveways, bus lane incursions, 'who was driving' etc. etc.
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There's always problems between junctions 16 and 18, I live locally and rarelly use that stretch, going north I get on at junction 18, if going south I get on at 16. There's warnings of traffic and accidents on the radio almost every day ;o(
Edited by Dox on 21/10/2008 at 10:58
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I agree Dox. Sometimes, especially southbound, I use J19 as well. The traffic feeding on to the M6 South at 19 can often gum up the motorway between 19 and 18. It does seem to be a particularly bad stretch from 19 to 15 in either direction. I suppose it's also to do with the A500 "D" road traffic feeding on and off.
Those poor souls last night. As someone else said it puts things in perspective. Reminds you to make the most of things while you can. Our thoughts are with all concerned.
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Doesn't it just? I was moaning that I'd had a bad day yesterday.....
My thoughts are also with those affected and their families.
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I agree too - I generally join and leave at J16 too and often when I'm leaving even though the traffic may have been flowing well from the M6 toll through to J16, I can see it slowing down beyond J16 as I leave. Wonder why that is - if anything, traffic leaving at J19 for Manchester and 20 for N Wales should tend to help empty the M6?
I notice M6 southbound is closed this morning between 15 & 14.
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I was reading an article last night from last year on the USA Today website about smaller cars being more dangerous in collisions than bigger cars - commonsense really but it did get me thinking about the pros and cons of considering a Jazz size car. Over on the USA Today site there were over 400 comments on that particular article which got very heated.
I just feel terribly sorry for all involved in that accident and the families of those who have died. Motorways are very dangerous places, as indeed the roads are, as it seems that no matter how carefully you drive that you always have the danger of being hit by someone who is perhaps not as considerate and careful as yourself.
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If you get hit by a massive truck then it probably doesn't make much difference but I wouldn't like to regularly use a motorway in a supermini. I have done it, and it becomes a much more intimidating place than in a reasonably powerful and larger car.
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Few months ago, there was another tragic accident where a car (Mondeo), full with teenagers, crashed to a lorry and all 5/6 died on the spot.
So unless you drive a Hummer/Range Rover or similar, Jazz or Focus probably have same chance of survival.
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Brings it all in to perspective! Live each day, you don't know what tomorrow will bring.
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We got run into by an HGV in a Fiesta in Italy. Only two of us in there and we survived but no rear passenger would have - the roof caved in.
This fire brings as much as I can remember back. What if our car had caught fire! I was knocked unconscious and was carried out of the car to the ambulance. This is why my replacement to the Mondeo was also Mondeo sized.
How I feel for that family - ours nearly had to deal with similar albeit just the two of us.
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I've read the article linked above on the BBC and it seems 6 died in that car, one being a baby! It gets worse. So with 6 onboard it must have been a bigger car and should make us all think about our safety on the roads.
My wife now hates travelling on motorways, especially M6 junction 18 to 15 since our Italian accident. I have no choice due to work.
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I was due to attend a job interview in Birmingham this morning at 10:30. I gave up and turned round to head home when I reached Stoke - the M6 was shut from J15 to J14 southbound, presumably due to an accident.
Not part of the tragic accident described above, but after my intial thoughts of frustration at not being able to reach my interview, I reflected on the good fortune I have that is life....
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I thought the police comment about the effect on those dealing with the accident - which compared that to the effect on the family - struck a wrong note. Maybe I'm old-fashioned.
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I've read the article linked above on the BBC and it seems 6 died in that car
Tragic, really tragic. I truly feel for the relatives, who will be dealing with the horrendous shocking news..
From the report, it seems that 6 people left Birmingham in that car, although they have found remains of only 5. You can draw your own conclusions about the baby and the ferocity of the fire.
My wife now hates travelling on motorways,
My own attitude to Mway safety is to keep a safe distance from the car in front, and an even bigger gap to the car behind. I believe that a majority of accidents on the Mway are due to the negligence of the driver behind. I am extra vigilant in jams, watching out for sudden braking by the vehicle in front but giving traffic behind extra special attention. I try to exit at the first Services if stuck in a jam, and rest until the Mway if flowing again.
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If I'm braking to a standstill on a busy motorway I always put my hazards on to for a few seconds to hopefully allow the daydreamers behind to wake up and brake in time, its worked so far..........
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I really hate the M6 for that reason - it's like slot-car racing, all boxed in on every side with no space or proper vision. If you drop back, the gap just gets filled.
Give me the every-man-for-himself jostling of the A1 every time. There's always a grass verge or bit of central reservation available if needed. [And the caffs every few miles probably save more tired driver shunts than any other road.]
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Back quite a few years ago I was working in Kidsgrove for a fair few months. I used to drive to there via the M6 but always came back on the A34. After a few days I'd already worked out there was almost certainly an accident between J16 and 17 of the M6 most days! And it still happens.
I still wonder why? The driving standard was also very poor (due to frustration) with cars/vans trying to undertake to get ahead a few feet.
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There were four serious incidents on the M6 last night. Stretched everyone to the limit (including the much maligned Highways Officers). Terrible time for everyone involved.
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The M6 has felt grossly overloaded for years. I agree it's a scary road.
Today's M6 is one measure of the true cost of scrapping the railways for freight forty years ago.
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My Grandad got crushed between two HGVs in similar circumstances to this, one of the reasons you will often find me in the outside lane on motorways.
Not much you can say about tragic incidents like this.
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With regard to the above discussion on the relative merits of small and large cars, from what I have read about this tragedy the size or type of car would have made little difference.
Perhaps not appropriate to speculate further.
Thoughts are with the grieving family, friends and colleagues.
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I was contacted this afternoon by a Staffordshire radio station to comment on behalf of the Professional Drivers Association ( that's wearing my other hat)
I was asked some very searching questions about lorry drivers hours, EU drivers comprehension of these, and the effect it can have on the general public.
My comments may or may not be used.
They were very harsh in hindsight, but I couldn't get the picture of this whole family out of my mind and I'm afraid they reflected that.
My reply was that EU maintenence standards are far and away below ours in the UK.
That these standards should be enforced in ALL of the countries they pass through before reaching the UK.
That on arrival in the UK they should ALL be checked and forced to turn around if they don't meet our standards.
That it's time the UK started to enforce, fine and ban firms who repeatedly breach our laws.
This sort of thing cannot be allowed to co0ntinue on the pretext that it's too expensive to pursue foreign drivers.
I hope the Portugese driver isn't bailed, and is kept here to face justice.
Pat
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Thanks Pat.
Let's keep speculation to a minimum on this - still an ongoing criminal investigation.
Edited by Pugugly on 21/10/2008 at 22:53
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I hope the Portugese driver isn't bailed and is kept here to face justice.
at this point in time, most of us have no idea whether he's done anything wrong or not, or if he has to what degree... it is common practice to arrest for the more serious offence, but only to investigate it, it doesn't hint as to whether there is any guilt or not
this will no doubt be a long and protracted enquiry..and.. the police can only detain someone for 24 hours unless a Superintendent authorises up to another 12 hours for very serious matters...after that it is down to a court to authorise pre charge detention up to a maximum of 96 hours and that is only done for the very much higher echelon serious offences
(this is why there is a current hoo-hah re detaining terrorism suspects for up to 42 days when computer evidence and similar needs to be investigated i.e. time consuming investigations)
if he was charged quite quickly (which he won't be as the enquiry will be too complicated), then the local Magistrtaes Court could refuse bail before the court hearing if they felt he wouldn't attend
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My own attitude to Mway safety is to keep a safe distance from the car in front and an even bigger gap to the car behind.
You can't really control the traffic behind you, although one thing I have mixed feelings about is early braking - if traffic is slowing I tend to like to show my brake lights to the vehicle behind, and at the same time open up a big space in front of me.
However I know many people think that other vehicles braking is the cause of the concertina action of the traffic.
Edited by Bill Payer on 21/10/2008 at 22:56
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Just caught up with all the various bits of news around this - horrifically shocking for the poor families left behind - how can you get over that ? A lot of clichés spring to mind. Horrific as well for all the Emergency Services that attended. Not much sleep amongst them tonight I would think.
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This is an example of where it proves breaking distance is key and I have always tried to maintain this. I even once had to stop breaking briefly to stop a rear-end collision. A close thing between maintain space in front and behind. I remember seeing their brakes lock and smoke from the tyres. All I could do was to try to stop them hitting me by getting closer to the car in front than I liked.
This was a tragedy last night... I again feel lucky from surviving an impact from an HGV/tanker pile-up from behind.
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Quite right BP. All you can do is maintain a decent distance from the thing in front. Then if you have to brake you can brake gently so the overloaded juggernaut on your back bumper can manage too.
When it gets fraught on a motorway with serious shunting in the rain between 80 and zero in the outside lane, with brake and hazard lights coming on in waves in front of you, then it is time to mimse along in the middle and get off the motorway when possible. Even I have found a motorway a bit much once or twice, and I am no wimp on the road. Sometimes though the atmosphere is electric with impending doom.
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I've been on the M6 this morning (J19 - 21, then the M62, north manchester and back), this terrible tragedy even with all the publicity has made no difference to the standard of driving in medium to heavy rain at times. One car south bound went from lane 4 to lane 1 and the slip road with one turn of the wheel at J20 at 70+ MPH, I'm really glad I don't travel these motorways anymore on a dailly basis. :o/
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I remember a post on here a few years ago where someone saw a police Vauxhall Omega turn over several times at high speed - and the officers walked away from the wreck. So being in big cars does help.
Pda - about time someone told the truth about foreign HGV's! It's not xenophobia, just the obvious truth.
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I turned an MG Metro over several times once and got out with a mildly bruised knee. I did have to be pulled out through the rear hatch, mind you.
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So being in big cars does help.
It's often said that speeding doesn't cause death / injury - it's the stopping suddenly that hurts.
If a call is rolling freely and you're belted in then there's a good chance you'll be OK - although a distant colleague of mine was hit on the head by his briefcase and has been permanently affected.
The problem arises if the car hits an unyielding object like a bridge support or a tree. Or if it gets crushed by a big truck.
Those squared off ends on Armco at the roadside scare me - I know it's done instead of the ramp to stop vehicles riding up on to the Armco, but I really wouldn't like to hit one at speed.
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