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I have been breathalised once - never again! Passed, but was still a horrible experience.
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I shall never forget the time I was driving through London (drunk) and I was pulled up by a plod in a 'Dog' van i.e. an Escort van with a GSD in the back ...
He said he had stopped me because he had heard on his radio that a car like mine had driven away from a petrol station without paying ...
Have you been drinking, he said, to which I relied yes ... you'd better suck a mint or something he said, as the traffic police will be here any moment ...
I never got done (thanks to him) so not all coppers are Fatherless!
LuckyDog.
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How things have changed with the passing of time.
When i was a young chap it was quite normal to drink and drive, not to excess though, being almost teetotal its never been a bother to me.
Things have gone the other way now and its a very definate anti social and dangerous crime, rightly so.
I have a feeling that todays children will be as anti speeding as current drivers are to drink driving.
I'm glad your experience in the nick wasn't worse than it was Ian, nevertheless i don't suppose its something you're likely to repeat, makes me shudder.
Don't know about you lot, but i've done some daft things in me time, will probably do quite a few more before time's up too.
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how refreshing that this thread has yet to have some saint appear and provide a lecture
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Isn't it just.
We all have lessons to learn and being able to admit to learning one makes you special!
Pat
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Absolutely WP and Pat, Ian has been brave enough to post this and has been in my view properly interpreted. I read it as his gentle reminder to all that a brief lapse can lead to serious consequences. No future in kicking a man when he's down. I would be very surprised if he did it again. We have all done things we later regret. Learning from them is the positive outcome.
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 05/10/2008 at 19:28
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They say "It'sa wise man who learns from his mistakes" but I .think it's a wiser man who learns from someone elses mistake.
Hoseman
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Breathalysed five times over the years, always passed except the first time, when just scraped through on urine analysis (4 pints Young's Special on that occasion). That was one of the times I have been in a police cell. Others that spring to mind are Oxford, D&D, 1957; Lagos, Nigeria, 1977 (attempting to persuade one of two young men who had been caught driving a stolen car rented to them by the police car pound to separate himself from his friend to avoid spending the night in a room with no furniture and a pool of urine covering the entire floor. He refused); Tamanrasset, Algeria, 1978, 'photographing military equipment' (mainly bulldozers lined up for the purpose of being photographed), released without charge along with the rest of the Western press, tee hee... spent ten minutes in the cells under Marlborough St Magistrates' Court in lieu of fine about 1959 too, an occasion rich in comedy with me pretending to have stolen a scooter.
Nothing humiliating about any of this to a reasonable man I would have thought. They aren't comfortable places though especially in poor countries, and plod can be a bit sarcastic and hard-edged if you are annoying or make a nuisance of yourself. All part of life's rich tapestry, seems to me. Of course you don't want to get banged up too often if you are a bishop, or plod, or a lawyer, but once or twice for minor stuff is quite all right for us civilians. Relax.
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Just remembered that in the sixties I once spent the night in a cell voluntarily, having arrived in Cambridge to do some work too late to get a cheap hotel and being short of cash. I asked plod and he kindly allowed me to doze on the board shelf in a cell, with the door left hospitably open. Woke me far too early in the morning but decently slung me a cup of tea.
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The significant difference between this post and the more common variety is in the humility.
Ian admits he was wrong and is not trying to weasel out of the consequences. Usually we have half a story and a big list of reasons why the poster shouldn't take responsibility for their actions and btw how can they get off.
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First, I'll lay my cards on the table and admit to having driven whilst "under the influence" of LSD, Cannabis, and Alcohol - not all at once I might add.
Secondly, I think to drive a car whilst *unfit* through drink or drugs is a very serious offence which should be (and is) followed by a ban + heavy fine.
What you or I do to ourselves is largely up to us, but when an innocent driver, cyclist or ped is at risk as a direct result of our irresponsible actions - there can be absolutely no excuse.
FoolishDog.
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I do like a drink, but find that I am enjoying it less as I get older. I was never able to hold the quantities of liquid (let alone alcohol) that some people seem to think natural.
I make no comment about Ian and his offense. I simply comment that if I was actually able to drink 4 or five pints of liquid over a period of say a couple of hours I would be spending too much time next to the urinal to be able to drive. If that drink was beer as well, I personally would be totally incapable of standing let alone driving. Maybe I have a very low tolerance of alcohol - maybe that's a good thing?
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Ok, beer here is about 5% abv.
Limit is 0,05g alcohol per 100ml blood.
92kg/1.86m
Now tis in the hands of the lawyers.
Answer for another poster:
Locally, a first offence is s substantial fine, and maybe a bit off community service. No license action, unless you were horribly over the limit, or involved in an accident.
Second offence is a license revoke job, plus even bigger fine, plus possibility of prison.
After that, depending on the magistrate, you can get jail time, car confiscation, house arrest etc.
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Sounds like sensible punishments - though I suspect that if they were introduced over here we'd have to build a new prison for them all!
Why oh why are so liberal with our punishments for these sorts of offences... and driving without licence/insurance as well??
Edited by b308 on 06/10/2008 at 07:03
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b, you may be on to something here.
From my experience, which as described above was NOT pleasant at all, being banged up and kept overnight does tend to make you focus a bit more on what you did wrong, and personally I amde a vow at about 4am as I was freezing my ass off on a cold concrete floor that I would never, ever, ever drive again after imbibing alcohol.
But I suppose the short sharp shock treatment of being banged up overnight in a crowded cell, with no matress, blankets, ciggies etc would be a violation of Human Rights in the UK?
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But I suppose the short sharp shock treatment of being banged up overnight in a crowded cell with no matress blankets ciggies etc would be a violation of Human Rights in the UK?
no smoking nowadays..anywhere... which brings the pains on for some
only one to a cell as well, in case one clouts another one, or worse
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Reckon the almost certain 12 month ban imposed here is more of a deterant than one night in a cell sans ciggies.
The real issue, SA and UK is intent. The OP clearly did not realise that he was anywhere near the limit because he was driving some hours after drinking, likewise people are caught the morning after night before, in both instances they may be totally capable and certainly not wilful however they are broadly handed the same penalty as someone who drives to the pub, gets tanked up, and drives home again.
Drinking and driving should ideally needs erradicating though as it stands, pretty much tarring everyone with the same brush, is not the best approach because it treats a mistake in the same way as wilful intent. Perhaps much longer bans for wilful intent with the possibility of shorter, say 6 month, bans for genuine mistakes?
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Sorry to harp on about it...
Yes, I'd been on the pop, yes, I thought I'd be OK to drive...
Frighteningly, while waiting to be finger printed, they brought a bloke in who was paralytic, had to be CARRIED in.
"What's your name?" I asked "Uurgurruhhuur" he said.
11am next morning, he was still in the holding cell next to the booking desk, as i was bailed.
snoring away, had wet himself, and looked like a bundle of rags propped in the corner.
Now, I am NOT trying to make myself look hard done by, but he wilfully, and knowingly got into a car knowing he was as bladdered as a newt, as opposed to making an 'honest' mistake.
They couldn't book him until he sobered up enough to actually say who he was... or was capable of standing up so they could take his prints.
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in this country there's driving with excess alcohol (s.5 RTA) and driving whilst unfit through drink or drugs (s.4 RTA)
the former = 12 month ban minimum, the latter can often be an 18 mth ban, depending on the circs
so there's already a difference between the two, with usually higher penalties
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I don't know what the legalities and rules are in the US, but from what I've seen the roadside sobriety test seems a far far better indicator of fitness to drive than the 'numbers' game we play here.
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Reckon the almost certain 12 month ban imposed here is more of a deterant than one night in a cell sans ciggies.
Normally I'd agree, C, but from what I've seen of numerous reports in local and national papers it seems a large %ge of people who are banned just continue to drive regardless - a definite spell in prison, especially a basic one rather than the cushy ones we have over here, would work a damn sight better than the (unenforcable) ban?
I've just finished reading a local paper story about a driver who had seriously injured a pedestrian... he'd been banned from driving several times and this was his 7th appearance - what will it take to get through, I wonder?
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- what will it take to get through I wonder?
Back in the 'old' days - up to about 1990! - South African law allowed for Under-21s to be caned for various crimes, as opposed to jailed.
Having witnessed a caning at the local plod-shop (a freind who was caught shoplifting cassette tapes), I can assure you it was not one of those gentle spankings beloved by the Beano - naked, kidney belt, strapped to an easel-type structure and "lay on with a will, sergeant major!"
Brutal. But definitely a deterrant for most people. (FIA types excluded, of course)
Apparently the law still exists in Singapore, and is used often, instead of fines, asbos etc.
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it's not just driving, but crime in general. There is a whole underclass of people who just don't seem to think the same way as the rest of us.
Sadly, if a normal person were to receieve an Absolute Discharge, Conditional Discharge, Probation Order, Community Service Order, Fine or Suspended Prison Sentence.. after a conviction at court...they'd be mortified. The underclass do not think the same way. If they walk out of court, they consider themselves let off....simple as that. Fines don't get paid and Orders are ignored.
Until our politicians realise this...or as is more likely admit what they already know and actually address it...then this current mess will continue.
Sorry if this is slightly off motoring...to aim it back there, a more firm approach to things like disqual driving would do us all an enormous favour, because those people who drive illegally are statistically far more likely to have a serious accident and cost us all more with higher insurance premiums.
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I wonder if that "underclass" is actually expanding, WP? The way I'm thinking is that many people now regard many motoring laws as "unfair" and therefore to be ignored - leading to bans/fines when people break these laws and are convinced by the press and forums that they are unfair and shouldn't (or don't) apply to them - speeding, parking, etc...
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I wonder if that "underclass" is actually expanding WP? >>
not my impression. For me the underclass is a serial law breaker who doesn't give two hoots about anything.
Someone's missus copping 3 points for a minor speeding offence and then doing the same two years later isn't on my radar... and neither is someone forgetting to do their MOT or not noticing a tyre has scrubbed because it was misaligned
i'm talking about the yob who hasn't got an ounce of common deceny in them, not one redeeming feature
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>>this was his 7th appearance - what will it take to get through, I wonder?
Not a night in the cells thats for sure.
>>There is a whole underclass of people
...
Until our politicians realise this... >>
You are talking about a disenfranchised society, the point David Cameron made in his conference speech last week, lets not get into politics.
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You are talking about a disenfranchised society the point David Cameron made in his conference speech last week lets not get into politics.
didn't watch his speech and i'm not at all interested in discussing politics on here. Was just stating facts as I see them in relation to motoring difficulties and expanded it slightly to cover all crime, as those who habitually commit motoring offences often commit crime as well.
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those who habitually commit motoring offences often commit crime as well.
Indeed...
Recall the New York Transit police catching fare dodgers - over 60% of them were wanted, as they had committed other crimes.
In motoring, did I not read on this BB that a survey of offenders caught parking in disabled bays showed that most of them had serious previous 'form' for motoring offences.
That 'don't give a &^%' attitude seems to be prevalent...
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A contrite Ian, eyeball to eyeball with me , recounted his experiences, with a little more detail.
He will not easily forget his overnight stay.
I had not seen this update to the Forum until my return.
Full marks to him for putting his hands up.
I did 99% of the driving in Capetown and around so had very little to drink but inspite of some awful antics by others on the road I was not aware of any obvious DD but very wary of ancient drivers proceeding at well under the speed limit.
I would not use public transport so I can understand many using cars well beyond a safe age ( drivers that is).
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I just went on a car insurance website to look for a quote for someone who's just coming off a 20 month ban for being 3 times over the limit. Not me! ...it was a hypothetical thing to see if he's going to start getting someone to "front" for him (long story, more on a different post in a few weeks heh heh)
anyway on a modest car TPO it came up about £250 for a year, that can't be right can it? I pay more than that with a clean licence and full ncb!!!!! Did I do something wrong or do insurers look kindly on drunks! Or maybe that was thhe monthly premium...
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I have been to SA several times since 2000, know lots of S. Africans in London ; There isn't one of them who hasn't totalled a car , almost always through drink - driving, the standards of driving there are shocking. I once saw an overloaded minibus where instead of a steering wheel there was a long spanner - the idea is that the driver is jammed in the corner and can squeeze in another broad - beamed passenger in the front ... Just check their road carnage rates .
Edited by motorprop on 03/11/2008 at 17:38
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I am still searching for SA figures, but here are some others.
On this basis the UK comes out extremely well.
tinyurl.com/3z8wa2
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