Hi all,
I'm currently commuting from the suburbs to London on a 125 Vespa ET4. I really would like something with a bit more oomph, but don't want to lose the versatility and lightness of the scooter (ie somewhere to store helmet, easy to ride). I really fancy a BMW F650 CS scarver as a replacement. Anyone have an opinion? Also, any alternatives? I want something quite reliable but must also have a low seat (30inch or so). Don't want to spend more than £3k if poss.
Many thanks in advance,
Alex.
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I spent a day with Motorcycle News testing some "new rider friendly" machines, of which the F650CS was one.
Really enjoyed it. Single cylinder engine takes some getting used to for the uninitiated (avoid either end of the rev range, basically), but the belt drive cushions the delivery nicely, and it's a light, well balanced bike that inspires lots of confidence. Has a useful storage cutout where the fuel tank should be, which can carry a spare lid or other paraphernalia. No chain to adjust, and likely to be reliable. Seems slightly quirky in an appealing way with the usual odd BMW switchgear and downright oddball styling. Good fun bike though. I enjoyed it a lot.
The biggest problem though was the Honda CB500 they also provided on the day did it all (without the storage) so much better and for less money new. Faster, smoother, more economical, better built, just as comfy and manoeuvrable, and far cheaper. I've ridden a few CB500s since then, despite owning a few sportsbikes, and it's still a great package. Fun enough to go out for a blast on, but practical, comfy and tough enough to commute on. If you can forego the helmet storage, I would highly recommend a test ride.
BMW is a good choice though. Also don't overlook the Kawasaki ER-5 / GPZ500S. Again, very underrated machines.
Cheers
DP
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I agree with DP but for the point about finish, recent Hondas have been poor, thin paint on frames, easily chipped paint on fork legs etc. BMWs used to be very poor re the latter though seem better recently. However cosmetically restoring a dozen or so bikes over the summer for a mate who runs a bike shop confirmed my opinion that Yamaha are the best finished mass produced bikes now.
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Rode one commuting into London for about 18 months and 12,000 miles (Surbiton to central London). First big bike for me.
Was a great bike to "learn" on. Very forgiving, light, low and easy to manouvre. Quite liked the quirky looks. Belt drive is great for low maintenance esp through winter. Storage area is very useful, especially as I fitted mine with the lockable storage box. It's a single so lots of low down grunt so good for getting away at the lights with little effort. Will cruise up to 80 no problem but anything over that is hard work, and it doesn't have much umph once you're north of 60. Took mine up to the lakes once and it coped fine, although was tiring. Good fuel economy also being a single.
Downsides? BMW servicing costs, so find a nice cheap indy (they wanted north of £300 for 12,000 mile service). Finish on engine casing is very poor and bubbled up on mine within two years of new. starter switch went which necessitated and new assembly on the handlebars. Short first gear so around London you'll be hoping between 1st and second a lot.
If you haven't ridden any other big bikes then you'll probably love it. However, as said above there are other bikes out there that will do exactly the same and more besides - i.e. just as easy to ride slowly / commute on, but they also have a fun side such that you won't get bored of them.
For what it's worth I moved onto a 600 Fazer (too revvy to get the best out of it so that only lasted 9 months) and am now on a CBF1000 (love it, lots of low down torque makes for a very relaxing ride and it's just as easy to get around London on despite the bigger size).
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No complaints from me - I had one as a "courtesy" bike from a Motorrad dealer whilst mine was in for a service. Everything was just right about it for the town work I ended up doing. It seemed pretty durable in the finish department with plenty of performance for the size. They have a strong following amongst riders. All this praise reminded me of a perfect summer's day last June in a town called Charleville-Mézières in France, where we lost one of our group - It showed me how brilliant a town bike the R1200GS - guided by sat nav through its windy, poorly surfaced streets, it was just awesome......the F650 is just like that, lithe and capable will do you proud. Buy it and enjoy.
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Should have said, there's a couple of very good websites forums for the F650. The name then .co.uk for the UK version (very helpful bunch of people and about the most useful bike forum I've come across). .com version is US based and also know as the chain gang - wealth of knowledge on there.
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Also had one on loan a couple of years ago. They were slow sellers- hence not a current model.Thought the appearance was hideous myself. Rode pretty well and was lively for a single. Felt the drive train was a bit harsh but that may have been the chain drive.I have a shaft drive R1150R. Recently rode an R1200R which felt just as wieldy in traffic and a much smoother ride.
Colleague has an F650 which has had a few mechanical issues and the engine castings are deteriorating fast.
Unless you can DIY service or know an independent mechanic expect large service bills.
However my local BMW dealer is generally excellent otherwise, in my experience.
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Actually an Aprilia with BMW markings and an Austrian engine.Only the Scarver was belt drive-the other two models in the range were chain.
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Not an Aprilia, unique to BMW though, yes, with a Rotax engine IIRC.
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The first gen 1990's F650's were built by Aprilia and the Pegaso from that time was a similiar bike except it had a more powerful 55bhp Rotax 5 valve engine as opposed to the 50bhp 4 valve fitted to the BMW.
I hired an F650 for the day on hol in Majorca a few years ago, found it to be a pretty 'gutsy' low end bike which soon ran out of steam on the open road, the main failing IMO was that it was way too top heavy with a tendency to 'flop' into bends. Would make an excellent commuter/town bike though.
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Thanks for your replies everyone.
Pretty much tallies with the reviews I have read- slightly odd, but excellent as a commuter albeit not brilliant on the open road.
I'd certainly consider a CB as an option, although I'm a little confused by the difference between the CB500, CB600 (the hornet) and the CBF500/600. Anyone clarify?
I've also been tempted by the darkside in the form of a Honda Firestorm. Would this be a tragically stupid bike to commute on? I get get passed by all sorts of machines commuting (including 916s, monsters, R1s, GSX-Rs etc), so could it be that bad? I understand the tank range is pretty poor. I'm seduced by the V-twin throb, 106bhp and 0-60 in under 4s. Honda reliability, but how bad would the mpg be? Insurance? Seat height is an issue as I'm a short-arze.
Cheers all,
Alex.
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A Firestorm would probably be snatchy at low speeds, drink fuel and not really give much fun as a commuter. I've done 60,000 miles, mainly commuting on a '99 R1, I put approx £10 a day into it for a 102 mile commute, which usually includes 85mph cruising as well as the slow speed stuff in heavy traffic. It's mainly alloy and plastic so little to rust, unlike built to a budget commuters that seem to disintegrate once the salt is out.
I know someone who had the early F650 as his first big bike, and he loved it.
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CB500 is a basic commuter bike.
CBF500 is a 500 twin version of the CBF600, see below.
CBF600 is a detuned 4cyl Hornet motor (Honda claim around 75bhp) in a fairly contemporary chassis, sports tourer genre.
Hornet 600 is a pretty quick naked bike (Honda claim around 95bhp), there was a half faired version built between around 2002 and 2004.
The Yamaha Fazer 600 is a Hornet alternative, half faired, I have heard of one on well over 200,000 miles, used every day by a courier and apparently still revs freely to over 12,000 rpm.
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Well if you are looking at second hand alternatives what about (I am a Suzuki fan BTW):
1) Suzuki DL V-Strom 650 - good riding position (I've ridden the DL 1000 which is similiar) and economical.
2) Suzuki 1200 Bandit, I run one of these beasts and they rock, good mpg and low running costs, mega torque and pretty much king of the road away from the traffic lights up to 90mph. Loads of aftermarket bits n' bobs available too. Relaxed - 70mph @ 4,000rpm in top 5th gear (the bike revs out at 11,000rpm).
3) Suzuki Freewind - 650cc single from the DR trial bike, economical and much better than an F650!
4) Yamaha TDM900 - the one with the 270 crank which sounds good, goes well and has a good riding position.
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Interesting Chrome, I wonder if your username is after the silver stuff that peels all to easily off Suzukis ;-)
Seroiusly I really cannot recomend Suzukis because generally the finish is poor compared to the other Japanese manufacturers. The only one that appeals currently is the GSXR750, a cracking bike, why dont others make a sports 750 any more or perhaps an 800 to ape the MotoGP bikes?
As I said above I have had a dozen or more bikes in my garage this summer to (mainly) cosmetically fettle on behalf of a mate who runs a bike shop, this included two Bandit 1200s, a 99T N model and an 04 S model, the former had been negelcted and needed the forks stripping and a lot of work on the frame and the engine casings. The latter had done a reasonable 20,000 miles in its four years and from 15 feet looked a tidy bike though was similarly afflicted in respect of peeling laquer and white powdery corroded alloy on the forks, rust in varous places on the frame and again nasty engine casings.
The main problem was matching the paint for the frames, the 99 bike was green and I found some paint for wrought iron garden furniture that was the right colour, the 04 bike was a very dark blue and I found a Ford blue in Halfords that did the job. Black frames are much easier to deal with.
As with any 1000cc motorcycle the Bandit 1200 is stonking though I have to say that my Kawasaki ZRX1100 is more refined, zipping its way up the rev counter, perhaps helped by its full titanium Akrapovic etc. The new Bandit 1250 motor is supposed to be very smooth however.
On the subject of finish, I was very disapointed with the Hondas including two CB1300s (03 and 53). The engine casings and fork legs on the CB1300s were terrible, in fact I think Honda must have a problem with CB1300 engine casings because they all seem to be afflicted.
The CB1300 is nice to ride, torquey and refined, I could live with one certianly though they dont have the top end rush that you might expect.
Back to Suzukis, the SV 650 is a good midrange bike though I would look to a Yamaha to commute on, better finished to handle salt etc in the winter and generally longer intervals for valve clearance checks which can make a difference if doing a high mileage.
Regards.
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Thats cruel Cheddar LOL! I don't think Suzuki's are any worse than other Japanese brands, all require looking after in the winter as I am sure you will agree - non are undercoated to protect against the ravages of roadsalt. My 15k 2004 bandit is still pretty good- I spray it with a product which neutralises roadsalt and hose it down after winter rides. The engine on mine is pretty zippy and I junked the OE silencer/catalyst many moons ago (replaced with a road legal after market silencer) which resulted in it running much sweeter with better mpg too.
My other passion is MZ's, I've owned a few of these quirky bikes. The current one is an MZ ETZ 250 - this East German 1988 bike is totally salt proof, has an enclosed chain, fork gaitors and costs peanuts to run. The ideal commuter really. Plus it cost me £400 3 years ago and is still worth that.
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Suzukis and MZs, hmm, nice link there, Suzuki's 2 stroke technology was based on MZ's, MZ works rider Ernst Degner (IIRC) defected at the 1963 Japanese GP (IIRC) with a suitcase full of parts and plans developed by Walter Kaden the innovative East German engineer, Degner sold the parts to Suzuki.
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This thread seems to be going off at a tangent, apologies to the OP! Yes I'm well aware of the connection between MZ & Suzuki and what could of been. What must be remembered is East Germany was no utopia, one in four of the population were said to be informers to the secret police (Stasi), no one could be trusted. The brilliant german language film 'The Lives of Others' sets the scene well. No wonder Degner defected, what is amazing is how MZ achieved superb results on a shoestring budget. Their star rider was British - a very modest man called Alan Shepherd who used to have to pay his way to race events and after he retired was often the driver of enthusiast coach trips to Saxony and the MZ factory at Zchopau. Interestingly the 1970's Suzuki GT500 effectively uses two MZ250 engines joined together so Suzuki were not averse to 'borrowing' ideas well after the Degner incident.
Edited by Chrome on 26/09/2008 at 21:53
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