Report on the BBC this morning showing that texting is worse than drug/drunk driving.
And yet I see this every day.
Apparently records numbers are being fined, but it doesn't seem to be changing peoples attitudes.
A bloke at work keeps his hand on his horn when he pulls up next to someone using there phone.
He's built and looks like a brick outhouse so he can pretty much do what he wants (I suspect its not too legal all that honking).
It seems to work though.
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It winds me up when I see someone on their phone, especially when they're sat behind me on a busy road and I've got my kids in the back of the car. I''ve often been tempted to pull over and let the idiots pass rather than have them end up in my car.
Perhaps if cars were fitted with in-car cameras which recorded stuff for insurance purposes, one could also use it to record a driver on a phone, then report it to the police? Could it be used in evidence I wonder?
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Report on the BBC this morning showing that texting is worse than drug/drunk driving.
Previous reports say similar for simply using a mobile 'pone whilst driving - even using a handsfree phone is more dangerous than driving when over the (drink-drive) limit.
Apparently records numbers are being fined but it doesn't seem to be changing peoples attitudes.
Repeated £60 fines, and the attition of 3 points, for each offence, should have an effect eventually.
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Increase the penalty to mirror drink driving - the main reason this has reduced is due to the potential consequences.
3 points and a few quid - worth the risk. Automatic 12 month ban and 10 years record on your licence, maybe not such a good idea.
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I have to make and receive countless phone calls in the car because my competitors do. I agree, that even when using a legal handsfree device it is very distracting. I wish it was banned altogether. In that event it would also level the commercial playing field.
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OP is looking at the current report which is about texting, not phone calls.
New technology means texting is now becoming e-mailing and even web-surfing whilst driving. Nip it in the bud now, or face real problems in a few years.
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All forms of phone use while driving are potentially distracting and I would prefer that it was mandatory to switch off phones in moving vehicles unless they are being used by a passenger.
I did notice the OP thanks. ;-)
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"New technology means texting is now becoming e-mailing and even web-surfing whilst driving."
Dear lord. We might as well just start handing out firearms.
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Dear lord. We might as well just start handing out firearms.
Indeed. See below.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/7612304.stm
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Well, that was disappointing. I was just putting on my coat to go and join the queue for my free government-issue Kalashnikov.
Edited by Pugugly on 18/09/2008 at 21:23
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How about an automated fine?
It is easy to plot the location of any mobile phone.
As soon as any text message is sent, the network provider will note whether the location has changed between few milliseconds.
From this, one can figure out at what speed the phone was traveling.
If this is over a preset threshold say 20 mph, an automatic text will be sent to that phone that his/her phone has been reported for text-ing while driving.
Pay fine else...
Wait a minute... how do you know if the passenger didn't send the text?
Option 1
No problem, the ANPR cameras between before and after text-ing will have images of the car. From there, using artificial intelligence, it will be easy to figure out if driver was alone in the car.
Option 2
It's driver's responsibility to prove that his passenger sent the text :)
Edited by movilogo on 18/09/2008 at 16:27
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It is easy to plot the location of any mobile phone.
Ah. I forgot to include that record in the "Police keep 5-yr records of your exact whereabouts" thread. Somewhat topical at the moment, too.
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Driving into work on M8 in stop/start traffic I regularly see plenty of drivers texting, no doubt as they feel they have nothing else to do other than lifting and dipping clutch.
I have an issue with this personally, but I would also suggest that just round the corner there will be specific legislation re sat-navs as well same as phones ie if you are physically touching them then it will be deemed an offence.
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Movilogo, they might be on a train or bus though?
Edited by woodbines on 18/09/2008 at 17:11
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Detecting train is easy.... just need to check whether the phone is moving in a designated railway track route.
For bus, assuming ID cards will be introduced by then, you just need to swipe your card after boarding and your phone will be in exclusion list
It will have the added advantage of your bus fare being automatically debited from your bank a/c. So, you won't even know if bus fare rises unless you check your statement.
BTW, how are so sure that no one is detecting your movement right now??
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>>Detecting train is easy.... just need to check whether the phone is moving in a designated >>railway track route.
This all becomes more complicated doesn't it? There must be many train routes that run parallel or near to roads (just tihnk of trams or light railways etc.) - when do you make the calculation (length of time moving) & how much accuracy is needed? Even more so with buses - & who's to say your phone is registered to a particular ID card? Many mobiles are PAYG & annonymous. You may pay cash for your ticket etc etc.
BTW, how are so sure that no one is detecting your movement right now??
I don't carry a mobile much or if I do it's turned off (it's for my convenience nobody else's).
Imho, if you always carry a live mobile you're asking for intrusion - unless you're a plumber or such like.
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The other problem this has created is drivers stopping in dangerous places to make/take a call.
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They do that all the time for no reason at all ifithelps...
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I don't make or take phone calls on the move any more - a choice I made last year. If I am on a work related trip and the phone needs to be used, I take a PA so they either drives or handles the calls.
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If I am on a work related trip I take a PA
Wish I knew how to make a symbol for a "Sid James laugh".............!!!!!
;-)))))
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He's forty - ex-army, married and totally dependable !
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Hey that's cool PU. It's the 21st century after all.....
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I have, no answer to that.
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it would be interesting to see his reaction if you grabbed his knee PU...you know the going for the gear lever trick
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He'd kill me - he's made that clear.
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" - when do you make the calculation (length of time moving) & how much accuracy is needed?"
The only record is which cell your device was registered to. It's possible to infer general direction but you can't determine an accurate speed or the route taken or mode of transport.
This will change eventually with the forthcoming regulations on location information for emergency services (also tied in with the requirement for all vehicles to contain a GSM device) - but this will only be used when required. The data storage and processing requirements to track the exact location of tens of millions of devices is mind boggling.
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De Gaulle thought it was beneath him to answer the phone. There's no earthly reason to, when you are driving, and you wouldn't make a call on the move either.
Wait for a convenient place to stop, or until you stop anyway, and answer the calls then. It's easy! Hands free if you must use the thing on the move. But is it really necessary?
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De Gaulle thought it was beneath him
Having just read a very good account of the events leading up to Operation Torch - he and other French Generals thought an awful lot of things were beneath them to the detriment of their nation !
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But there's more to the General than Operation Torch, PU...
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I have just remembered Stanley Crawford's (I think that's the name) comic satirical novel Gascoigne, set in the American West in the early sixties.
The central character is a seedy sort of Burroughsian Howard Hughes-style capitalist who sleeps in ten-minute naps and lives in a succession of horrible old cars that he keeps on convenient vacant lots around the state. He runs the cars on his own cut-price brand of petrol and special cheapo oil for the older car, and runs the business by phone as he hurtles the LA freeways listening to the 'front-end shimmy over eighty'. He gets up to speed on the freeway and starts dialling.
Part of the plot is that he is so horrified when he finds out that his voice at the other end of the phone who conveys his orders to the rest of the business is actually a black man that he fires him on the spot, not a particularly good move.
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I would say 90% of the mobile calls I take whilst driving are worthwhile. the other 10% I tell them I will call them back.
For my job I oversee 12 (soon to be 13) shops. So I don't want to wait till I have arrived at my second shop to find I have left something at the first. Or i don't want to go to the 2nd shop when the 3rd shop need to see me more urgently etc etc.
On the homefront, I have very few calls but again most of them will be along the lines of "on your way home can you pick up bread / milk / son / daughter" etc whereby I would rather not wait till I get home and then need to retrace my steps.
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I picked up my first ever CU80 last week. FWIW I was looking through my phone for the number of one of our other drivers before I called him on my (company provided) Bluetooth earpiece. The police officer explained to me that there is a current purge on driving and using phones in their area therefore its automatically a FP and 3 points with no discretion.
In fact as an HGV driver this was presented to me as the soft option, their guidelines say all HGV cases should go to court but because it didn't affect my driving or any other road users they were prepared to go down the FP route.
Edited by Webmaster on 21/09/2008 at 13:32
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BobbyG. Is that hands free then. Regards Peter
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In case we needed reminding of the potential consequences:
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7624625.stm
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Even "worthwhile" calls can wait a few minutes on the answering system until there is a convenient place to stop.
In the obituaries for Humphrey Lyttelton, it was said that he didn't give out his phone number because he resented any caller inverting his priorities: an incoming call claims that the caller's business is more important than what you are doing at the time. He was perhaps one of the most sane individuals around.
The use of the telephone while driving should have been banned from the start.
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I still like the idea of sounding the horn at people... maybe some pointing and head shaking.
Nothing like a bit of peer pressure.
Obviously, until someone comes at you with a wrench...
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I still like the idea of sounding the horn at people... maybe some pointing and head shaking.
Doesn't usually work, these sorts of people are too arogant for peer pressure.
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>> I still like the idea of sounding the horn at people... maybe some pointing and >> head shaking. Doesn't usually work these sorts of people are too arogant for peer pressure.
And so they should be. Peer pressure should not be necessary. The last thing we need is any form of encouragement to the general public that part of their job behind the wheel is to pass judgement on other drivers. All of us would do far better to spend a lot more time passing judgement on our own driving.
If you're trying to convince someone to do something through peer pressure it means you've failed to persuade them through more reasonable means (or perhaps just that you have an unpleasant side to your character and you like to tell yourself that you are superior to others around you).
Explain your case and I will listen to your argument. Let me know that you simply think you are better than me and I shall ignore everything you say. With something as important as persuading people to pay attention behind the wheel, getting yourself ignored rather than listened to seems foolish.
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Peter, yes it is, Parrot 3100 system, throroughly recommend it and it was simple enough for me to fit myself, which is saying something!
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I have just remembered Stanley Crawford's (I think that's the name) comic satirical novel Gascoigne set in the American West in the early sixties.
I misspelled the name just in case anyone is interested (it's a good read): 'Gascoyne'.
I am surprised no one has commented that mobile phones didn't exist in the early to middle sixties. But of course people here will know that car phones did exist in those days for those who could afford them and whose cars had room for the somewhat bulky equipment, with handset on wire. Ministry and grandees' cars could be seen to have them by the long whippy aerial that came with them, classier than a CB or minicab radio aerial. .
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Not sure where this is going to land in the list. This is in response to movilogo and his automated fine posting.
What about company cars where a group of employees are travelling in one car.
Passenger uses drivers phone to call drivers wife to say they will be late. Unless you are listening to the call and have voice recognition how do you know it was not the driver who made the call ?
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people seem to regard the chance of being caught as being minimal.
you don't see many police around to catch them, so they take the chance and if caught they take the penalty.
therefore the penalty is not high enough to act as a deterrent.
perhaps 3 or 6 months ban would deter them.
or an increasing penalty
first time 3 points and a £60 fine
second time 6 points and £600 fine
i see plenty every day on my way to work on the m60 and around where i work, probably into the dozens
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All causing life-threatening crashes of course...
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All causing life-threatening crashes of course...
it's a perspective Lud.
Opening the glove box, looking for a box of tissues, finding them, pulling one out and then blowing your hooter would be quite dangerous wouldn't it, if you're supposed to be concentrating on the road... but there's no legislation to stop that.
Picking up your mobile from your shirt pocket, sticking it to your ear and saying to someone "i'm on the way home, see you within the hour" isn't going to kill a bus load of kids, but of course, some fools will conduct their life story on the phone whislt driving, including waving their arms about, totally failing to notice the most fundamental things right in front of them... and they are dangerous
what is irritating though is the band wagon jumpers who don't actually think these things through and once the legislation is in think you're Satan for breaching it
for the record, i think using a mobile whilst driving is usually unwise and at times can be most dangerous, texting whilst driving is usually incredibly foolish and often most dangerous
Edited by Westpig on 20/09/2008 at 16:14
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Agreed Westpig. I can't begin to imagine how anyone would try to text while driving, and even dialling a number that isn't pre-entered would seem to me very dodgy indeed. But a message to say you're running late from a traffic jam or crawling nose-to-tail stuff seems all right. If the law can't manage a slightly more detailed and inflected law, then I suppose a ban is better than no ban. My short post above was to underline the fact that thousands of people make phone calls while driving all the time, usually without mishap.
I would add though that what I can't manage safely at my age might be a bit easier for the modern whippersnapper who emerged from the womb mobile to ear. You seem to have more spare hands when you are young. One of my daughters is a heavy phone user both by nature and by profession, and it doesn't seem to make her drive much worse than usual (i.e. in a terrifyingly offhand and slapdash manner, giving her car that banger-racer look, so far spared any major shunt although the financial cost of her minor ones would make your jaw drop).
Edited by Lud on 20/09/2008 at 16:40
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Like a lot of laws its been written for the lowest common denominator and to make it as easily enforceable as possible for the powers that be.
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>>I can't begin to imagine how anyone would try to text while driving,
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>>.....what I can't manage safely at my age might be a bit easier for the modern whippersnapper who emerged from the womb mobile to ear.You seem to have more spare hands when you are young.
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Some can create text messages without looking at the phone.
It is one of the many skills my daughter has. (Oh, and she is no longer in her twenties.)
Her phone remains unanswered ( by her) when she is driving.
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All causing life-threatening crashes of course...
Texting may be dangerous even while driving a train on a railway track - it seems to have been a factor in the crash of the LA train in California last week!
"The driver of a US passenger train had been sending texts before it went through a red light and caused a crash that killed 25 people, investigators say.
The train failed to brake at the stop signal and smashed into another service in Chatsworth, 30 miles north-west of Los Angeles, at the weekend.
More than 130 people were injured in the incident, the worst seen on an American railway in 15 years.
Metrolink train operator Robert Sanchez, who was killed in the crash, had been sending text messages while on duty the day of the collision, the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) revealed."
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Text-speak grammar is worse than drunk/drugged telephone speak grammar!
Edited by L'escargot on 20/09/2008 at 16:48
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Which is why its not wanted on this site.
Edited by Pugugly on 20/09/2008 at 16:52
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Which is why its not wanted on this site.
LOL, ROTFLMAO as is SWMBO.
Edited by jbif on 20/09/2008 at 16:55
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What baffles me are the number of enormous exec saloons that have some Rolexed up smug looking business person with a phone stuck to their ear.
Doesn't your top of the line Audi/BMW/Jag/Range Rover come with a top of the line hands free gizmo?
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Most do - when we were risk assessing company cars a few years ago, properly plumbed in hands free where a control measure. I no longer have a hands free in my car, but I've weaned myself off mobile phones when driving - part of this is down to my Blackberry, all my voicemails are integrated to my desk phone and I get an e-mail when I have voicemail and return calls in my own good time.
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the only car integrated phone systems i've ever had any dealings with are dreadful.. a mate has a new Freelander and whenever he rings me from that or vice versa I have to arrange to speak later, as I can't hear him.....sounds like he's over the other side of a room
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