(stolen from elsewhere...)
A press release has just been issued by the stewards at Singapore.
"Following a Stewards' enquiry Lewis Hamilton has been penalised for the offence of overtaking _______ too closely at _______ on lap ____ of the Asian F1 race from Singapore"
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He He !
All this FIA conspiracy against Hamilton stuff does not bear inspection.
McLaren used the Luizzi penalty at the 2007 Japanese GP as evidence supporing their appeal against Hamilton's penalty imposed at Spa. However following that same race, which Hamilton won, the FIA began an investigation into Hamilton for dangerous driving and causing a collision (the charge was braking dangerously behind the safety car causing Webber and Vettell to collide) though the FIA decided not to impose any penalty.
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I am disappointed to see the night circuit is well lit. The cars should have been fitted with headlamps ;-) Only joking.
Apart from bringing the show to a day slot in Europe, I cannot see the point of a night race.
I wonder if they'll have slalom's like in the previous GP for run-off areas - certainly stopped gaining an unfair advantage.
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>>Apart from bringing the show to a day slot in Europe, I cannot see the point of a night race.>>
That is the only point as far as I can see.
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>>Apart from bringing the show to a day slot in Europe I cannot see the point of a night race
And the next one will be...
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/76...m
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At least they admit it's for TV.
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I am disappointed to see the night circuit is well lit. The cars should have been fitted with headlamps ;-) Only joking.
I'm not joking. With the circuit lit up 100 times better than a UK motorway they might just as well run it during the day. What's the point of a night race on a floodlit circuit?
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>>What's the point of a night race on a floodlit circuit?
None whatever from a sporting point of view. Purely commercial presumably. Bernie will have done the sums.
The increased value of advertising and television rights deriving from the race being live on a Sunday afternoon in Europe must be plenty, and as much as possible of the cost will have been foisted on to the Singaporeans.
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Going to cause big problems if there's a power cut.
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Going to cause big problems if there's a power cut.
That's why the lights are powered by six generators, independant of the local Power and Darkness outfit.
AFAIR each genny powers every sixth light, so if one goes off, it is just a bit dimmer and not a whole section going dark.
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Also interesting to hear that Shell recently resurfaced Ferrari's Marinello track with the same stuff as Singapore!
Edited by martint123 on 27/09/2008 at 19:49
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All this FIA conspiracy against Hamilton stuff does not bear inspection.
Look at penalties given to Ferrari (and related teams) over the past few seasons and those given to other teams, in particular MM, Chedder, I think that will answer your comment...
I had no doubt this would be their decision but as said before its the fact that they could not question the penalty and also the inconsitancy in the stewards decission making over the past few seasons that worries people... according to the F1's website the penalty for putting a car out in front of another dangerously in the pit lane should have been a drive-through/25sec, but Ferarri got fined 10k Euros! Where the heck did that come from...?
I think, Cheddar, you should re-read HJ's post earlier where he compares F1 to X factor, etc instead of trying to justify the FIAs actions... he speaks the truth, I'm afraid!!
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Look at penalties given to Ferrari (and related teams) over the past few seasons and those given to other teams in particular >>
I stand by my point, Ferrari have had their fair share of penalties though the example I gave of the 2007 Japanse GP clearly shows that the FIA could have penalised Hamilton, and thus McLaren, if they had the will to do so! Conclusion - no conspiracy.
I had no doubt this would be their decision but as said before its the >>
What, that the appeal would be inadmissble or that Hamilton would not get his points back?
I said above that ruling the appeal inadmissble was the worst possible result because it did not provide the necessary clarity to restore (as I think Steve Rider put it) "the man in the street's" faith in F1.
I think Cheddar you should re-read HJ's post earlier where he compares F1 to X factor etc instead of trying to justify the FIAs actions... he speaks the truth I'm afraid!!
I agree with HJ in that F1 is entertainment and I agree that F1 benefits from 'behind the scenes dramas' which keep it in the news and surely helps audience figures.
However I reckon that Ferrari and McLaren, Hamilton and Massa, Dennis and Di Montezemolo et al would all reject HJ's assertion that "F1 long ceased to be a sport".
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Cheddar,
Do you accept that Hamilton was hard done by...because... he complied with the rules as they were
i.e. cut a corner, knew he had to cede the place, did so, had his team clarify with the race director whether or not what they'd done was sufficient...and then afterwards, had a penalty imposed by the stewards...and subsequently the driver's get told they need to ensure that when they cede the place it has to remain in place until the next corner (which is a new element to the rule)
and that an appeal isn't heard, because you can't appeal a drive through penalty, even if a steward applied it mistakenly
do you accept the wrong driver has his name on that particular race's trophy, because he only came second, but has been awarded first place?
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Cheddar Do you accept that Hamilton was hard done by...because... he complied with the rules as they were >> ...... >> need to ensure that when they cede the place it has to remain in place until the next corner (which is a new element to the rule)
Westpig, I accept Hamilton was hard done by in that the penalty did not fit the crime. Though it has to be said - the other drivers seemed pretty unanimous, BEFORE the FIA's clarification of the rules on the Friday at Monza, that Hamilton had not fully conceded the advantage gained.
However I think it is a real shame that the appeal was ruled inadmissble because if it had been heard then, which ever way it had gone, it would have been a great opportunity to provide clarity and to restore any lost faith in the sport.
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I stand by my point Ferrari have had their fair share of penalties though the example I gave of the 2007 Japanse GP clearly shows that the FIA could have penalised Hamilton and thus McLaren if they had the will to do so! Conclusion - no conspiracy.
Think we will have to agree to differ, you are agin using odd decissions to justify your vews whereas I suggested that you look at the overall picture, the penalties have been a lot more harsh for MM than Ferarri!
I agree with HJ in that F1 is entertainment and I agree that F1 benefits from 'behind the scenes dramas' which keep it in the news and surely helps audience figures.
His point was that its a Sport, NOT "Entertainment" in the X Factor mould, but the FIA's decissions and Bernie's constant manipulations for more money have resulted in it now being "entertainment" not Sport... your comment that F1 "benefits" from these "dramas" says it all, really... no true sports fan would even think that way!
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OK - as it happens - how many drive by penalties for Ferrari/Massa for driving out of the pits with a fuel line attached and nearly collecting another car in the pit lane as he did it?
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Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah.
Bit of bad luck for the reds, what?
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It is a boring procession though relying on accidents, safety cars and confusion in the pits to liven up what is otherwise a very very dull race. If there had been no safety car it would have been nearly two hours of a parade.
I was expecting this track to be far more exciting but it is just hype based on it being a night-time lit-up track.
Boring.
IMPO they need to change this track for next year to make over-taking possible - of course, rules changes supposedly will help but I suspect viewers not committed to F1 will have been switching this off IMPO.
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Boring.
How many times do we hear that, yet we still come back for more.
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Probably mainly in the hope that LH will win the WDC despite his, his teams and the FIAs attempts to prevent him!! ;)
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What a showing for Ferrari.
Couldn't have happened any better after the court debacle this week.
What goes round comes round.
Edited by Pendlebury on 28/09/2008 at 16:55
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how many drive by penalties for Ferrari/Massa for driving out of the pits
Not forgetting causing Sutil to crash out at turn 18 due to Massa extricating himself out of the barriers in an unsafe manner. IMO, Massa deserves a 10 places penalty in the next race for that incident.
[poor guy Sutil, Raikonnen rear-ended him in Monaco, and here in Singapore Massa did a "spin" in front of him.]
Haha, hehe, I really enjoyed the fate that the Reds suffered, a bit of a schadenfreude moment for me. Points balance restored to what it should have been at Spa.
Edited by jbif on 28/09/2008 at 16:55
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FIA doesntalways do the sport justice, but it seems fate will make up the slack.
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a letter to ferrari
Thank you for your recent complaint re: the result of the Singapore GP. We did have a plan to get Raikkonen onto the podium by punishing the upstart for, well whatever, but you rather screwed that plan four laps from the end. Unfortunately, your suggestion of the the award of "discretionary points" to your man looks good on paper, and we might well use it in future, but at this stage some of the fans might twig. In the meantime we promise to do whatever we can in the final races, BUT YOU HAVE TO GIVE US SOMETHING TO WORK WITH,
Your obedient servants,
FIA
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I think it's time the Ferrari drivers were made to give their credit card details BEFORE the fuel rig goes on. :-)
JH
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Apparantly the McLaren mechanics were cheering their Ferrari counterparts as they raced down the pit lane to Massa's car. I would LOVE to have seen that.
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McLaren mechanics were cheering
They had to find someone to cheer in light of Kovalainen's rubbish performance [at least he is consistent]. Flavio must be so glad that he got to exchange this 2nd rate driver for Alonso.
news.mercedes-benz.co.uk/
"Kovalainen gunning for victory
September 26th, 2008
Vodafone McLaren Mercedes driver Heikki Kovalainen has stated that he is out to win the Singapore Grand Prix having received no team instructions to follow a different strategy."
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Much as im happy that Hamilton has had a reverse of luck, I have to say that whatever complete fool it is at Ferrari who insists on the 'traffic light' system in pitstops. It could cost Massa the title.
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I thought that the cars looked superb under artificial lights. The race itself was far from boring. Enjoyed it immensly.
One wonders how long any organisation can tolerate such repeatedly dangerous behaviour
in the pit lane. Ferrari seem to have a scant disregard for the safety of anyone.
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It's partly the organiser's fault for making the pits/pit lane part of the race.
But how else can the sponsors get lingering, clearly focussed shots of their logos on the telly if the cars are not brought to a halt?
Money talks and I'm afraid the odd scorched/squashed mechanic doesn't enter the equation.
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Thankfully the sky+ box recorded who won (just), but then stopped recording midway through Alonso's radio celebration with the pits. Trust me to forget to add a manual record to allow the race to run over. I'll have to wait for the highlights for the drivers interviews, etc.
I see there is no race re-run on ITV3 or 4, only the highlights. I tried watching it through ITV's catch up service to catch the after race celebrations but I gave up because the adverts drove me up the wall everytime you skipped through to the next frame. Roll on next year when it can be watched throuh BBC's I-Player.
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Think we will have to agree to differ you are agin using odd decissions to justify your vews >>
Odd decisions? The race I mentioned was a case where Mclaren could have been penalised, even excluded, though the FIA found in their favour.
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As I said, we'll have to agree to differ, you seem virtually blind to the obvious, C, if you took the time to go on other country's F1 forums you'd find general support of LH, even from Italians!
As for your comment regarding the other driver's comments... would you seriously expect any of them to criticise the stewards deceission? They know the consequences... having said that if you read the full interviews of several of them they actually gave veiled support to his plight, the only ones who didn't were red-car based, which is what you'd expect.
I see no point in adding anything on this subject, its done and dusted now, but, to me, your thought that F1 is now entertainment says it all. As far as I'm concerned its a Sport and whilst it might be entertaining (I hope!), its all about the best driver and team winning with no "rigging" from the sidelines to make things more "entertaining", if I want that I'd watch XFactor or Strictly Come Dancing (which I don't btw!). Many years ago the FIA when the French were in charge spoilt it with their politics, Bernie came along as a saviour, and he was, but regretably now he's outstayed his welcome and its become as bad as it was... the old adage about too much power going to his head springs to mind...
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you seem virtually blind to the obvious >>
If you have a point to make then make it, counter my opinion rather than criticise me, after all I am entitled to my opinions - as you are.
No, I was totally opened minded though have concluded based on the instructions that the drivers are given at every race in the pre race briefings that Hamilton did not concede all of the advantage gained, that being said the punishment did not fit the crime, a situation that was only exasperated by the appeal being ruled inadmissible.
As for your comment regarding the other driver's comments... would you seriously expect any of them to criticise the stewards deceission? They know the consequences... >>
More conspiracy theory? Are you suggesting that if a driver criticises the stewards they will be out to get him or something?
but to me your thought that F1 is now entertainment says it all. >>
You have misconstrued my point, I was countering HJ?s assertion ?F1 long ceased to be a sport?. My point is that F1 is entertainment AND a sport, yes I said that I agree with HJ when he said that F1 benefits from 'behind the scenes dramas', because it keeps it in the news and provides intrigue, though I did not say that I agree that the behind the scenes dramas should be happening.
(I hope!) its all about the best driver and team winning with no "rigging" from the sidelines to make things more "entertaining" >>
I am sure that it is that, the problem is that mistakes can be made and are then seen as "rigging" depending on the viewer?s perspective. Just like the good ref - bad ref situation in a football match.
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Most pit stops seem to last under 10 seconds. Why not impose a minimum of 10 seconds, so that crew have a fraction more time to check that all is go?
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From a safety perspective that is a great idea though it would detract a little from the teams ability to fuel short to gai a couple of seconds and pass in the pits etc.
Perhaps with the emphasis on economy and the introduction of KERS next year perhaps it is time to go back to no refueling during the race.
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"time to go back to no refueling during the race"
I was thinking the same thing. Returning the use of pit stops to maintenance and new tyres only would make it a much finer/more tactical decision, as well as preventing lunatic scenes like yesterdays. Imagine the repercussions if that snaking fuel line had swiped other pit crews or caught a spark!
It would also allow a 'no pitting' rule when the safety car is out, which would make the racing a lot fairer IMHO. Yesterday's result was interesting, but more to do with luck than skill.
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I seem to remeber that in the '80s the tank limit was 220 litrs, reduced later to 195 litres, a first lap pile up involving a number of cars with 200 litre ish tanks brimmed is not ideal though over the years that have been more pit incidents involving refueling rigs than track incidents involving cars carrying excessive amounts of fuel and with today's relatively efficient V8s they can probably complete a race on 120 to 150 ltrs.
One advantage is that KERS would supplement the total amount of energy available to complete the race rather than simply provide an overtaking boost as is predicted.
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"time to go back to no refueling during the race"
Of course this will not happen anytime soon because the cars need to be rengineered to carry a full race worth of fuel. However, IMO, this rule change would be a sensible step which should be introduced as soon as practicable, for these reasons:
1. Grid qualification process equalised - positions no longer based on fuel needed for the 1st stint of the race.
2. No more guesswork about a safety car coming out just when the you are running low on fuel and the pit lane is closed. The unjust unsporting lottery of positions gained as in Singapore simply because of your need to fuel while the pit lane is closed gets removed.
3. All the risk associated with refuelling in the pit lane gets removed.
Keep the tyre rules which mean there has to be at least one pit stop.
p.s. I thought that the stewards took too long to apply the penalties, the delay then benefitted Rosberg.
As the Telegraph says:
"The race resumed on lap 20 and Rosberg, who did not receive his penalty notice for another six laps, had time to build a significant lead, helped by the buffer provided by Trulli and Fisichella's Force India, which usually spends its afternoons at the other end of the field. When the German came in, on lap 28, he dropped only to third."
Edited by jbif on 29/09/2008 at 11:09
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