ever tried to undo a cable tie with no cutter/tools? its near impossible to break one with your bare hands
i wonder how many of these cars carry a suitable cutter incase of a flat tyre in the middle of nowhere??
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Centrifugal force on a rotating wheel would generate a force from the centre of the wheel, out towards the rim, along the radius of the wheel, ie not a force to make a trim go outwards away from the car. It is just a lump of metal with a very light bit of plastic on it, not the Hadron Collider thing!
Edited by Armitage Shanks {p} on 12/09/2008 at 10:19
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The only reason centrifugal force may come into play would be if the wheel trim had a large weight at one spot on/close to the perimeter, in which case there would be increasing force at higher speeds.
But since they don't weigh much, and are symmetrical, they stay on nicely with cable-ties.
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I used cable ties on the old Mondy's trims initially to help prevent theft but, as the plastic has become brittle with age and weakened by removals, the ties are even more vital for holding the trims on.
Thanks for the reminder - I must check that I've still got that pen-knife in the door-pocket!
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Thanks for the reminder - I must check that I've still got that pen-knife in the door-pocket!
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I have never had cheap wheel trims. My Sierra had very plain Ford trims that were hard to remove. I had never thought about a cable tie removal "tool".
I hope the advice was TIC. Is you get stopped by authorities you may have some questions to answer. May I suggest a small pair of scissors with the wheel nut tool might be better..
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I hope the advice was TIC. Is you get stopped by authorities you may have some questions to answer.>>
Fret not, Henry! Generally, I find that when the police stop me, the presence of a pen-knife throws 'em off the scent. Little do they realise that when I go out murdering people, my preferred weapon is a wheel-nut brace. tee hee!
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>>Fret not, Henry!
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I am much relieved that you are well prepared with "tools of the trade" and dont do things by halves but by braces. ;-)
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Centrifugal force on a rotating wheel would generate a force from the centre of the wheel out towards the rim along the radius of the wheel .........
There's no such thing as centrifugal force, it's just a term used to enable an equation to be created for calculation purposes. There is, however, centripetal force. Centripetal force is the force required to make something travel in a circle, rather than in a straight line. When centripetal force is removed (as in twirling around a conker on a piece of string and then letting go of the string) the object continues in a straight line in the direction in which it was travelling. In the case of the conker, it will travel at right angles to the string, or tangentially to the circle. It will not travel radially outwards. (The centripetal force inwards was provided by the tension in the string.)
Since a wheel trim is circular and solid there is no centripetal force on it. If the trim comes off the wheel it will start off travelling (still rotating) in the direction of the car and then fall in a curve to the ground under the combined effects of gravity and its initial forward momentum. The shape of the curve will be affected by the aerodynamic drag on the trim.
The cable tie will initially travel at right angles to the radius at which it was attached, and then be acted on by gravity and aerodynamic drag. The exact path will depend on where it was around the wheel at the time it was released.
Edited by L'escargot on 12/09/2008 at 10:48
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OK, two ties opposite each other: trim stays in place. I saw a wheel trim the other days 'secured' by just one - that would fly off owing to centripetal/fugal force.
Consider me enlightened.
Those ties do look kinda rubbish, especially black against a silver trim.
Edited by Mad Maxy on 12/09/2008 at 11:04
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All this physics to justify tacky trims that have to be tied on. Why not have trims that fit under the wheelnuts? They would cost tuppence more per trim, of course, which could be a big issue with some makes I guess.
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Why not have trims that fit under the wheelnuts?
Plastic wheel trims that are held on by the wheel nuts might not be a good idea. If they were held on by a circular flange on the wheel nut they would rattle, and if they prevented the nut from contacting the wheel they would interfere with the clamping force of the nut on the wheel. What arrangement did you have in mind?
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I think that on the Citroen ZX there were four "tubes" which pushed over the wheel nuts,
however the design of two of the "tubes" had a flange that the wheel nut held against, ie offer the wheel up to the hub, secure with two opposing nuts, fit wheel trim then put the other two nuts on. If you forgot you could slide the cap on and secure with a rubber mallet but it tended to break the tubes. We lost numerous wheel trims off our fleet, always after a service, garage didn't realise the above.
Edited by CQ on 12/09/2008 at 11:44
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My '86 Aerodeck (last car I had without alloys except the P6 V8 that had stainless steel trims with big clips) had substantial plastic trims that simply fitted under the wheelnuts - no other fittings. Maybe the nuts had a slightly different head shape or something, but I don't think so.
I still think it's all about basically sound design, engineering and quality materials.
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Memory serves me that Maestros and other Austin Rover products had their trims secured by the wheel nuts for part of their lives.
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Why not have trims that fit under the wheelnuts? <<
They do exist - our 54 plate Picanto has them.
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I lost my o/s front wheeltrim on the motorway 2 weeks ago.
I suddenly caught sight of it as it accelerated ahead of me. For the merest split second before I had identified it as only a trim I had visions of it being something far more substantial having parted company.
I was in lane 2, the trim obediently followed the white line whilst I undertook it, and at the same time a vehicle passed in lane 3.
I followed it's path in my door mirror,and then rearview mirror as it veered towards the hard shoulder and then down the embankment in its bid for freedom.
Breaks up a monotonous journey anyway !
Edited by able1 on 12/09/2008 at 15:14
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Our Honda Logo has trims that go under the nuts.
Most trims I've seen are held on by a piece of wire that goes round the circumference and clips onto the wheel. If they are put on correctly they don't fall off, I find.
On the other hand, it's easy to think they are on correctly when they are not.
Edited by pyruse on 12/09/2008 at 15:36
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Plastic wheel trims are nothing short of a blasted nuisance, they come off, thy get nicked, they contribute nothing to the dynamics of a car; they should go like last year's fashions.
What in name name of reason are they for? Good appearance? Everyone knows that they are just stupid bits of tacky plastic, which usually get in the way of checking tyre pressures and make hands dirty when doing so.
Get shut of the blasted things and if you want good appearance, let?s have nice steel wheels, like the Ro-Styles of yesteryears Fords.
Chopped something that would, no doubt, attract complaints of blasphemy
Edited by Pugugly on 12/09/2008 at 16:50
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I tend to agree Spospe but short of replacing them with alloys on an older car what choice is there?
Cars without the trims, with rusty steel wheels look rotten. An older car with trims at least looks semi-presentable.
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On my mark 2 Escort, I remember it had steel wheels with a rubber cover over the centre pin and wheel nuts.
Looked crackin when I spray painted them in the bright shiny silver and used that horrible black paint stuff for the tyres!
Well for a week anyway until the rust came through again :(
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Until I bought my current car, now with the ubiquitous alloys, I had either wheel trims or metal centre wheel embellishers (those clipped on metal discs).
In almost 50 years of motoring nothing ever came adrift!!
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OK two ties opposite each other: trim stays in place. I saw a wheel trim the other days 'secured' by just one - that would fly off owing to centripetal/fugal force.
It wouldn't.
Consider the fact that centripetal force is acting inwards towards the centre of the wheel trim, and as the trim is symetrical it is acting equally in all directions. The centripetal force is perfectly balanced (theoretically), and will not cause the trim to fly off.
There are plenty of other forces which might.
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My car has had one trim missing since I got it four years ago, making it look a shade more inner-city than necessary. Even the other three aren't all quite the same, although they are the same general sort of thing. That isn't the problem though. A new one would look ridiculous given the condition of the others, and the damn breakers' yards are all so far away these days. So I haven't got round to it. Hope the n/s rear wheel nuts will come undone if they ever need to...
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Lud
The answer to your problem is simple, just look on the pavements and in the hedgerows of your neighbourhood, you will see loads of the damn things!
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....and remember that if you allow a trim to come off and it causes and accident that you could be held liable. I remember a friend and I on a non-mimsing motorcycle trip had a close encounter with a wheel trim in lane 3 of a motorway, the resultant wobble that this caused my friend was a true underpants moment.
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....and remember that if you allow a trim to come off and it causes and accident that you could be held liable.
I once heard that's why police cars either have alloys or no trims fitted in case they fly off in a high speed pursuit.
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Having just thought about it for a moment more, I have another objection to these useless wheel trims and that is this............
If an HGV has part of its load fall off whilst it is in transit, then the police will prosecute the driver for having an unsafe load: true?
If a plastic wheel trim falls off on the motorway at 70mph, won?t the police prosecute the driver on the same basis?
Good idea if they did in my opinion, then we would get rid of most of these useless plastic adornments that contribute nothing at all to motoring pleasure.
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Yes..we posted at the same time - Dangerous Parts I would imagine.
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In Ceylon (now Sri Lanka) in 1947 or 8 I was given a lift home from boarding school in one of the two very fine Cadillacs the army brass had swiped in Trincomalee on the departure of the Americans who had been there during the Pacific war (the navy had a ragbag of Humbers, American Fords, Chevrolet 15cwt trucks and one amphibious Jeep). The CO's son was in the same class as me and so this arrangement was made.
The car, driven I think by a local chauffeur, was rapid, capacious and silent, but suffered a tyre blowout at some speed on a straight two-lane blacktop surrounded by jungle. The wheel trim came off as the wheel hit the ground and rolled across the scrub verge into the trees, where it took ages to find. I still remember it bounding along as the car pulled up and overtaking the car before disappearing.
Goodness, that was a long time ago.
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They wouldn't have been mimsing wheel trims but proper chromium hub caps though. Man's stuff !
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Yes PU, but not just nave plates. It was a Cadillac remember, from the forties when Cadillacs were still very high-quality cars, and the trim was all metal but covered the whole wheel or most of it, a bit like a Rolls-Royce one from the fifties, with body colour paint and sort of chrome rings... the size gave it a lot of momentum.
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Lud
Tell me more about the amphibious jeep, what you remember.
Ian Grieve
Australia
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If an HGV has part of its load fall off whilst it is in transit then the police will prosecute the driver for having an unsafe load: true? If a plastic wheel trim falls off on the motorway at 70mph won?t the police prosecute the driver on the same basis?
if a wheel falls off because the driver hadn't checked his wheelnuts for 10000 mls (and some) because the wheel trims have been tied on for so long, wont the police prosecute on the same basis?
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But never the one you're missing!
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My car has had one trim missing since I got it four years ago making it look a shade more inner-city than necessary.
Three trims on your wagon, Lud? I thought you would be a bare-steel-wheel sort of bloke..
;o)
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They look so nasty in that black with fine rust highlights though... In the old days when wheels were painted car colour, or something decently contrasting, and had bang-on chrome nave plates, they looked OK naked, but they look a bit squalid these days, or Ford steels do anyway. I suppose if the car was black instead of scuffed white they would look all right though.
Edited by Lud on 12/09/2008 at 17:39
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All black wheels used to make the MK2 Cavalier a bit of a "street-fighter" though.
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All black wheels used to make the MK2 Cavalier a bit of a "street-fighter" though.
Alternately known as the "Mad Max" look.
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SQAlternately known as the "Mad Max" look.
Also:
Alternately known as the Middle Eastern taxi look!!
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 13/09/2008 at 04:00
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In the old days when wheels were painted car colour or something decently contrasting ....
What a memory you've got, Lud. One of the production workers at Rootes received a financial reward for suggesting that all wheels should be painted silver to save cost.
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The Seicento has a more secure way of holding the wheel trim in place that avoids the need for clips or cable ties. The wheel bolts go through the wheel trim. It's never going to come off in one piece by mistake.
Wonder why more don't do that.
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Never lost a wheeltrim on my Octavia in 267,000 miles of taxi work, and they were never cable-tied on. Even a good few clouts against kerbs etc failed to dislodge thm, although they were reasonably easy to remove when needed. (eg after clouting kerbs etc)
Edited by Webmaster on 21/09/2008 at 13:35
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Wonder why more don't do that.
You beat me too it. Why can't others learn from Fiat? Although the last time I got a new tyre I had to tell the mechanic, it looked like it was going to break because he tried pulling it off!
Edited by Pugugly on 12/09/2008 at 19:54
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>>You beat me too it. Why can't others learn from Fiat?
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IIRC my old old UNO had the same system of wheel bolt holding the plastic trims.
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>> In the old >> days when wheels were painted car colour or something decently contrasting .... What a memory you've got Lud. One of the production workers at Rootes received a financial reward for suggesting that all wheels should be painted silver to save cost.
You don't have to be that old to remember proper nave plates and wheel trims made of metal.
My 1989 Volvo has painted wheels, flat chrome discs covering the nuts, secured by a central chromed locking piece with logo which clamps round a groove in the end of the wheel hub.
Then a separate chromed disc ("rimbellisher" they were called) which fits around the rim, with a slot for the tyre valve.
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I've noticed on my 2008 motor, that the trims are far superior in asthetics than the previous model. So the "tea-leaves" would need pliers, or sidecutters to "lift 'em" instead of the Stanley knife, as I've used locking wire instead of tie-wraps. ;-)
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My 1989 Volvo has painted wheels flat chrome discs covering the nuts secured by a central chromed locking piece with logo which clamps round a groove in the end of the wheel hub.
And you can't cable tie these on!
In fact *if* they are correctly fitted they won't come off but it's fairly easy to not get all the lugs in the groove and then at something a lot less than warp speed centrifugal force comes into effect and they go and hide in someone's hedge.
...(blushes)... Anyone got a spare one?
Edited by Steptoe on 13/09/2008 at 00:06
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