The question starts from the wrong premise IMO. It is not actual consumption that is the issue, rather it is total consumption, i.e. 5000 miles p/a in an SL55 uses less "gas" than 30,000 p/a in a Prius/C1/Bluemotion etc.
Also driving an older gas guzzler is often better that causing demand for a newer vehicle to be built and the associated embbeded carbon issues.
Of course Darling and Brown don't recognise either point.
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Last tank in my diesel Accord got 37.2 mpg.
You really need to get that looked at my 2.2 tourer is averaging 47. using brim to brim on mixed motorway and town driving, I am probably classed as an old foggie in my driving habits but to me anything under 40 mpg is a guzzler with todays technology.
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"e.g. Range Rovers on the school run (1 or 2 kids) where they guzzle gas and take up excess road space."
I would never have one, but they don't take up more roadspace than other cars. They seem to because of their bulk/height. That's one the reasons I don't like them, because they block your view, just as large vans, trucks and buses do.
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Roger - I realise that the bulk of a RR is rather an illusion, but I defy you to get two of them past in narrow lanes where 306s (for example) could.
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Anything below 20 mpg is a tad greedy, really. But not as greedy as the fast patrol boat I served in - she guzzled a gallon a minute at 50 kts.
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Andy, I agree completely, I'm not at all happy but Honda tell me this is normal. A 60 mph aircon off run will get me 43 mpg.
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I would hat the fuel bill for a 747 even if it is vat free.
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Over 50 mpg = excellent
40 - 50 mpg = good
30 - 40 mpg = acceptable if the performance is good.
Under 30 mpg = inappropriate for today's world.
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Am I the only person who thinks this is an efficiency issue, and that gas guzzling is not an absolute but a judgement relative to power output?
I repeat: any car putting out (these days) say, less than 400bhp at peak, that won't better 10mpg around town, is a gas guzzler (my fifties Bentley, whose power output can't have been much over 150 or 200bhp - Rolls-Royce wouldn't say -, did 8mpg in town, and virtually all American cars used to be similarly inefficient).
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Am I the only person who thinks this is an efficiency issue and that gas guzzling is not an absolute but a judgement relative to power output?
snipquote!
Interesting point of view, but I think that absolute assessments of what is or is not acceptable will hold sway as the price of fuel and increasing scarcity of oil bite deeper and deeper.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 08/09/2008 at 14:43
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I'm no tree-hugging greeny but I imagine I'd have to revise the thresholds in my previous posting upwards by 10 mpg in around ten years time.
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Anything that can't at least equal, if not better 35 mpg on a gentle motorway run would be a bit thirsty for me - purely on the basis of impact on wallet.
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As has been said already, a car that only does 2000 miles a year isn't really a guzzler even if it's only managing 10mpg -- the carbon footprint of a 40K-a-year rep (who might be able to do half of that on a train) is far greater, even if he's getting 60mpg.
Hence, all forms of taxation which tax the vehicle itself should IMHO be abolished, and replaced with a purely fuel-based system -- you use 1000 gallons in a year, you're taxed ten times as much as the person who uses 100 gallons.
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It can't be defined using MPG value only!
if, ratio of MPG/Earning is greater than Affordability then it should be termed as gas guzzling.
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>>Hence, all forms of taxation which tax the vehicle itself should IMHO be abolished, and replaced with a purely fuel-based system -- you use 1000 gallons in a year, you're taxed ten times as much as the person who uses 100 gallons.
I absolutely agree... except that those who run on SVO, WVO and electricity would then be completely tax exempt.
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Maybe it would be more realistic to look at fuel consumption on a 'household' basis, rather than on that of an individual vehicle. I do of course realise this may be an unpopular viewpoint but, hey, if we're trying to save the planet...
You'll have to be patient because maths is not my strong point, but - say - if SWMBO and I have one car, a Bentley Continental that covers an 'average' mileage at 15mpg, while my neighbours have two or even three cars that do 30 mpg, who is, or are, really guzzling gas?
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Agreed, as I said above 5000 miles p/a in an SL55 uses less "gas" than 30,000 p/a in a Prius/C1/Bluemotion etc.
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When the red light starts flashing on the LPG switch that tells me the vehicle is now running solely on very expensive petrol!
52.9ppl for LPG v 108.9ppl for UL?
Yes, that expensive!
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What about extending the logic of energy guzzling to houses?
So the larger house with all the lights to light and all the rooms to heat (assuming insulation is the same in all cases) is more of an energy guzzler than the small house. And pollutes from the energy being generated.
Let's get rid of all large houses, while we're at it. Sounds ridiculous but that's where value judgements like "gas guzzling" take you in the end.
I hope no-one who frowns on gas guzzlers lives in an energy guzzling house.
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to me a 'gas guzzler' would be a domestic house boiler or maybe an oven/hob
if we're talking about cars then it would be a petrol guzzler. In the same fashion they're 4x4's not SUV's.
nothing against the Yanks, but their language is theirs and ours is ours
going slightly off topic why do we seem to get so much damned news about their build up for their Presidential election? What on earth do we need to know about that for? Just tell us the result at the end, in November.
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nothing against the Yanks but their language is theirs and ours is ours
Exactly. What a pity that so many Britons feel the need to copy their language so avidly. British pop singers even copy American accents. Eugh.
Edited by L'escargot on 09/09/2008 at 07:48
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My fuel consumption is entirely reasonable and justified, yours is gas guzzling.
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And CP gets the award for the best answer! Nice one CP! :)
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British pop singers even copy American accents. Eugh.
Could that be because most of them are performing in a musical idiom that is American in origin? Opera is best heard in the original language after all, so why not blues-based music?
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>> nothing against the Yanks but their language is theirs and ours is ours
Yet this thread is titled with an American phrase!
Edited by andyfr on 09/09/2008 at 11:47
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My "gas guzzler" was a 1925 Bullnose Morris.
It did about 20mpg.
But the worst thing was that it's max speed was about 40mph, and 28mph was it's most comfortable cruise,at which it was doing the 20mpg. Faster and it also pumped engine oil out of various felt seals. 28mph -not so much oil loss.
With reference to the other post about "computer inputs"-the Bullnose fuel gauge was a sight gauge on the dashboard connected to the bottom of the (5 gallon) tank.
This had it's own tap, as did the main tank, and as it leaked I never used it.
Computation?-dead reckoning from the odometer-and there was a 2 gallon spare can on the running board.
Our Jazz seems to calculate the mpg from the trip meter setting-the more miles you do the less fluctuation of the mpg on the dial, although I do brim-brims, and also an annual calculation-about 45mpg-but we live in a very hilly area and typical 15 mile trips include about a 1000 feet altitude climb.
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Hardly anyone tells the truth about their mpg. especially all the Motor magazines the figures they quote are totally unrealistic. Depending on the mileage one does I would say that under 23 mpg in London can be considered gas guzzling. I do approx 7000 miles per anum and I am very happy with my second Dodge Caliber CVT that gets 23/24 mpg in London
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Hardly anyone tells the truth about their mpg. especially all the Motor magazines
Do you mean when they quote the Gov figs? Because I believe the "test" figures they produce are accurate... and many of us on here who quote our mpg figures are telling the truth, I assure you! ;)
Edited by b308 on 10/09/2008 at 19:40
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Yet this thread is titled with an American phrase!
In the thread title I purposely put the phrase gas guzzling in inverted commas to indicate that it was a scare quote and not my normal terminology. See tinyurl.com/58jws5
Edited by L'escargot on 11/09/2008 at 13:48
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What a pity that so many Britons feel the need to copy their languageso avidly. British pop singers even copy American accents. Eugh.
I, as a seriously Anglophile American, would love to be able to get away with a plausible sounding British accent, but the question is which one--BBC newsreader? Her Majesty? Some North Yorkshire yokel? Scouse? Cider-drinking Westcountryman? The choices make me scratch my head in puzzlement.
As far as fuel consumption goes, guzzler only applies to below 10 mpg or less US, or 12 mpg or so on an Imperial gallon. My Chrysler gets 16 US/20 UK gallon, and that ain't bad at all considering its size and weight.
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Under 30 mpg = inappropriate for today's world.
Couldn't give a hoot, quite frankly.
By all means drive around in your eco-friendly smug-mobile; in ten or twelve years it'll be uneconomic to repair so you'll recycle it, which by the way uses up a good deal of energy to achieve.
I'll keep on doing the occasional trip in my unrestored, 45-year-old 15 mpg, 1963 GMC pick-up, down to the farm to collect firewood for my carbon-neutral woodburning stoves.
And I bet I'll enjoy my trip a lot more than you enjoy yours! ;)
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I'm with you , Harleyman. With China firing up a new coal-fired power station every week, I'm not going to wear a hair shirt. Too many people on the planet is the problem.
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V happy in my coffin then!
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Too many people on the planet is the problem.
Absolutely, nick. Perhaps global warming is just one more of nature's weapons (there are also flood, plague, pestilence etc) to combat this problem. Meddling with nature may well be a bad thing long-term.
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