A cyclists rant - skorpio
As a car driver for over 20 years and someone who cycles to work everyday come rain or shine, I experience a fair few close shaves with motorists. What really rags me are car drivers who still insist on overtaking me when I'm almost in the middle of the road with my arm stuck out signalling to turn right on a mini roundabout.

What part of a right turn signal don't they get? How far over would I have to be before the idiot car driver would decide to stop trying to pass me and wait until I'd turned?

What thought process (assuming said driver has a brain) is being played out which makes that person think its ok for them to pass me whilst I'm signalling?

They wouldn't get away with it if I was in a car or on a motorbike but for some reason their tiny brains think: Cyclist. He doesn't count as a proper road user so therefore I can do whatever the hell I like. I'll speed up, squeeze past and then I'll get to work 1 minute earlier.

It's like some motorists are simply on auto pilot in the morning and all they can think of is getting their personal transport device into work as quickly as possible with no thought for other road users!

So if you fancy your doors being dented and being sued following a personal injury claim, just overtake whenever you see a right turn signal.

p.s Yes I wear a helmet. Yes I wear a bright green hi-vis jacket.
A cyclists rant - R40
I can sympathise as too many drivers just don't look nowadays.

Some cyclists are fitting mini cameras in their helmets now to support personal injury and harassment/reckless driving claims. Could this help reduce these type of incidents by forcing awareness do you think?
A cyclists rant - andyfr
I always give cyclists, horse riders and motor cyclists plenty of room and allow them to turn if they need to. However some cyclists seem to think that they can get the best of both worlds by riding on the pavement, dodging between pedestrians, cycling over pedestrian crossings so they don't have to stop at red lights, or just completely ignoring anything which might impede their progress. I think it's the later type who get cyclists a bad name.

I certainly think that there should be some sort of compulsory cycling training and basic insurance. Not to persecute the cyclist but more to give them some basic road skills to better cope with the traffic.

Andyfr
A cyclists rant - b308
What thought process (assuming said driver has a brain) is being played out which makes
that person think its ok for them to pass me whilst I'm signalling?


Probably the same process (and brain) that was used by the cyclist who nearly mowed me down and forced me into the canal a week or two back when I was walking home down the towpath...

There are good and bad on both sides and cyclists can cause as much damage to pedestrians as we motorists can to them...

Worth remembering that some of your cycling colleagues aren't whiter than white either....

Edited by b308 on 20/08/2008 at 10:36

A cyclists rant - krs one
B308, given the choice would you rather be hit by a car doing 40mph or a cyclist doing 20 max. Have a think about that one.
A cyclists rant - BazzaBear {P}
B308 given the choice would you rather be hit by a car doing 40mph or
a cyclist doing 20 max. Have a think about that one.


Given the choice, I'd rather be hit by neither. Why should we have to accept terrible behaviour from either set of road users?

This is an ill fated thread. They always go the same way. You get two sides: Motorists who think that because some cyclists act like idiots the whole lot should be treated with disdain, and cyclists who refuse to accept that any cyclist has ever been in the wrong. Then the people in the middle trying to be reasonable get drowned out.

In fact, it turns out exactly the same way as when anyone starts a thread entitled "Why do lorries take miles to overtake each other on dual carriageways?"
A cyclists rant - Collos25
What rubbish.
A cyclists rant - Collos25
That was for B308 not KRS
A cyclists rant - movilogo
Often cyclists can cause severe injury, similar to being hit by car! It's high time that 3rd party insurance is made mandatory for cyclists.


Edited by movilogo on 20/08/2008 at 10:47

A cyclists rant - b308
KRS and Andy B, no, sorry lads, its not rubbish - I give plenty of respect and room for cyclists when I'm driving, but they don't do the same for me when I'm walking... if you have seen the speed some of them do when riding on footpaths and towpaths you will know what I mean - a cyclist in those conditions can kill and maim a pedestrian...

The point I was making, which you seem to ignore, is that there are people on both sides who do wrong, and whilst the OP has the right to rant about certain motorists he has to accept that there are a number of cyclists (a growing number from my observations) who take the same cavalier attitude towards pedestrians as some motorists do to cyclists...

Two wrongs don't make a right, but if we're getting told off by an irate cyclist then I can't see any problem in passing to him the thoughts of an agreived pedestrian and hope that he is able to instil as much common sense into his fellow cyclists as he hope to do to our fellow motorists!!

Edited by b308 on 20/08/2008 at 11:05

A cyclists rant - CGNorwich
Often cyclists can cause severe injury, similar to being hit by car! It's high time that 3rd party insurance is made mandatory for cyclists.

A very good point. If you are injured by an uninsured motorist at least there is the MIB to provide cover and compensation.

If you are hit by an uninsured cyclist it just tough luck and no compensation.
A cyclists rant - alfalfa
Often cyclists can cause severe injury similar to being hit by car! It's high time
that 3rd party insurance is made mandatory for cyclists.

>>
some (ie more than one) of the examples of severe injury would be useful.

Just because cyclists don't have insurance doesn't prevent them from being held financially liable for their actions. That in itself might be good reason for them to have the insurance but total death/severe injuries caused by cyclists v. same caused by cars. No contest!

alfalfa
A cyclists rant - David Horn
Probably the same process (and brain) that was used by the cyclist who nearly mowed
me down and forced me into the canal a week or two back when I
was walking home down the towpath...


In this situation standing your ground works brilliantly - the cyclist will almost certainly choose the least painful option and ride off the edge into the canal... :-)
A cyclists rant - Dog
is why its called The Rat Race ... tie an American baseball bat on ya carrier & lemme know how ya get on.
A cyclists rant - Collos25
In 2007 a cyclist killed one pedestrian it runs into thousands the cyclists that were hit by vehicles and the deaths are in the hundreds.I am road cyclists I commute ,race,train on the road both here and Germany and in both countries the majority of motorists are excellent but a large number are pig headed numskulls and I would thing that this manner follows them whatever they do as for insurance most of us do have it from our club also bearing in mind that most of us are motorists as well.Towpaths are used by walkers,cyclists horses and uncle tom cobbly and all if a cyclists is coming towards you is it not good sense to step out of the way as you would do on a road.
A cyclists rant - Optimist
I don't know where you got your fatality figure from. Want to say?

I have seen cyclists do the most extraordinary things because they can and it will take me a long time to forget seeing a little girl who'd been run over by a pig-headed numskull with a helmet and an attitude who thought it was ok to race down the gap between two lanes of traffic and over the crossing the girl was legitimately using.

Some cyclists seem to think that if they have to slow down their personal best will be lost or something. Why, otherwise, are they always going at maximum speed?

And as for hand signals. Forget it. When you're doing your impression of an Olympian, hunched over the bike, you really can't risk being slowed by the wind resistance caused when you raise a hand, can you?

If I want to drive my car as though I were on a track I have to go to a track day. Speed cyclists should do the same.
A cyclists rant - Mapmaker
It doesn't really make any difference whether pedestrian, cyclist or motorist.

All three categories contain those who:

1. Are considerate towards other road users and are aware of their environment
2. Are totally unaware of their environment so are an accident waiting to happen
3. Are unconsiderate towards other road users and so are an accident waiting to happen

I was once knocked off my bike by a pedestrian - a 9-year-old girl who stepped into the road without looking, straight in front of me.

This morning I drove to work, through the congestion zone. I was amazed, several times, by the swarm of cyclists and mopedists who were around me. It's all very well to complain about inconsiderate motorists, but 2-wheeled road users are incredibly vulnerable, and when you have one within 18 inches of you on the left; and one within 18 inches of you on the right, one in front of you and one behind, then it is terrifying.


To survive on the roads you need to adopt a defensive approach.
A cyclists rant - Mapmaker
Oh yes, and I have always had third party cover when cycling. A scratched Bentley is well worth paying a few pounds to avoid.
A cyclists rant - Roger Jones
If only this were read, understood and remembered . . .

tinyurl.com/3x2tfq

I think that all road users should have to pass a test.
A cyclists rant - Collos25
"If I want to drive my car as though I were on a track I have to go to a track day. Speed cyclists should do the same."

How fast do you think cyclists travel at ?
A cyclists rant - Waino
After the results at the Olympics, I say RESPECT to the cyclists - good on yer!

Maybe, in these days of rising fuel prices and rising sea levels, the cyclists, swimmers, sailors and rowers are pointing the way for us all!

By the way, I've got a bell on my bike to warn pedestrians of my approach. I bid them 'good morning' and thank them for their courtesy in allowing me through. Generally, we get along fine.
A cyclists rant - Collos25
correct
A cyclists rant - movilogo
It can now be even more dangerous as many cyclists will start thinking they are not on road but on olympic track :)
A cyclists rant - Collos25
Why? I can go much faster on a road bike than a track bike its the fantastic cadence the track riders achieve that is amazing.
A cyclists rant - Optimist
How fast do you think cyclists travel at ? >>


I don't know. You tell me. It's the ignore red lights, swerve in and out of traffic and always go as fast as poss that's the problem. Oh, and ride on the pavement.

Someone was telling me the other day that where he lives a cyclist moving at some speed hopped off the road onto the pavement and knocked down and killed an old woman standing at a bus stop.

I was at a NT property earlier this year and a mountain bike rider - helmeted and lycra'd - insisted on riding on an asphalt path dotted with walkers when there were acres of open land.

BTW. Do cyclists have bells on their bikes any more?
A cyclists rant - Collos25
Its legal in most european countries to ride on the pavement unfortuneatly not the UK,actually bikes do not have to stop for red lights as they are not motorised transport I now await the deluge of mails.
A cyclists rant - skorpio
I ride quite quickly (but never break the speed limit!). I also consider myself courteous and will warn pedestrians if they step out in front of me which is a fairly regular occurance. I never ride on the pavement.
I also thanks motorists if they give way to me (even when I have right of way!).

I tend to ride assertively, i.e. I won't sit too close to kerbs at the risk of catching a pedal on the pavement or hitting badly maintained drain covers. It also makes motorists less likely to try and squeeze past as they have to make more of a conscious effort to overtake and leave room.

I kind of knew this thread would get hijacked by the pro's and con's brigade. They always do!

I merely wanted to get it off my chest and try to understand why a motorist would ignore a clearly given hand signal. I guess we'll never know unless it happens again and I get to 'confront' the purp face to face. If it happens I'll be sure to post again and let you know the outcome. You may even read about it in the press.

'Motorist goes to hospital to have bicycle pump removed from anal cavity'.

A cyclists rant - Roger Jones
"actually bikes do not have to stop for red lights as they are not motorised transport "

At the link provided above, you will find:

"69

You MUST obey all traffic signs and traffic light signals.

[Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD reg 10(1)]"

I can think of nothing more stupidly dangerous for any road user than to run through a red light.

Edited by Roger Jones on 20/08/2008 at 14:26

A cyclists rant - Leif
I have to say that most cyclists are a danger to themselves, and many are a danger to others. I speak as someone who has been almost knocked down by a cyclist several times, and been run over by one once, while I was on the pavement I might add. The lycra crowd are the worst. Many are arrogant, rude and dangerous. I think many are high achieving executive types.

But ... drivers do often show a lack of respect for cyclists. A few weeks back I had to emergency brake when I came across a car driver overtaking a cyclist on a blind bend. Obviously an idiot is an idiot, whether they are riding a bike or driving a car.

So, what can be done? Not a lot. How do you teach manners and respect?
A cyclists rant - Collos25
I think you need a new pair of glasses.
A cyclists rant - BazzaBear {P}
I think you need a new pair of glasses.


See? This is the problem with these threads. You're completely unwilling to accept that a cyclist could possibly be in the wrong, while others on this thread seem to think it's perfectly acceptable to almost nudge bikes into the verge because they once saw one of them run a red light.
A cyclists rant - Leif
I think you need a new pair of glasses.


Was that directed at me?

In which case why do I need new glasses when a cyclist going at high speed on the pavement cycles into me? Or when a cyclist going at high speed on the pavement zooms past so fast that had I moved, I would have been hit and possibly injured?
A cyclists rant - Waino
In answer to Optimist - yes, I do have a bell on my bike - which I mentioned a few posts earlier.

I will tell you why the problems have arisen:

When I was a kid, few people had cars; most went to work on a bicycle or, the more well-off had a motorcycle. There was also something called public transport. In those days, there was a much lower proportion of people who used their cycles and motorcycles for leisure. As ordinary folks became better-off over the next 50 years, they bought a car and used it to go to work, leaving cycling and motorcycling largely to enthusiasts - a significant minority of whom are loonies. The newly-fledged car drivers then looked down on two-wheelers as lesser mortals and treated them with disdain.

As a cycling, motorcycling motorist, I just wish that more motorists would get out of their cars and get onto two wheels. The benefits would be two-fold - they would learn about the difficulties faced by cyclists in traffic and, maybe the dominance of the loony cycling fringe would be diluted.
A cyclists rant - Collos25
www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/aug/04/politics.transpo...t

According to this it will be very difficult for acyclist to be in the wrong.
A cyclists rant - movilogo
I just wish that more motorists would get out of their cars and get onto two wheels


Problems of cycling:

* Unlike Holland, Denmark etc, in UK we rarely have dedicated cycle paths. Even when we have this, they are so littered with glass etc. the cyclists prefer to use main road.

* Those who live in flats (above ground floor) it is often difficult to take your bike in your room unless you have lifts in your building

* Cycles are prone to be nicked

* Most motorists leave plenty of space between their cars and cyclists when overtaking them - however, while doing so, they often cross the lane marking and put them on opposite lane thus putting other motorists (and themselves) in danger

* Because of the point above, especially on narrow country roads, it often takes a long time to overtake cyclists. After sometime, people get frustrated and start taking dangerous maneuvers - which can cause accidents.

* cyclists don't use bells! (even if they have a functional one)

* There is no such law against dangerous cycling compared to dangerous driving. If you kill someone while cycling, you can just walk away with not more than £2500 fine to pay (recently it was on the news). Remember this if you ever want to sue cyclist to recover your loss.

can't remember anything else right now....
A cyclists rant - movilogo
Found the news

Parents' anguish as killer cyclist walks away with just a fine


The maximum sentence the judge could have imposed yesterday was a fine of £2,500

tinyurl.com/5s6z63
A cyclists rant - Alby Back
I have been riding bikes in both rural and urban environments for more than 40 years. I have been driving cars in the same places for more than 30 years. I have never been knocked off my bike and I have never knocked anyone off theirs or ever hit a pedestrian with either form of transport.

I just try to stay aware, whatever means of transport I am using and ultimately just work on the assumption that everyone else around me is probably blind, deaf, drunk, stupid or homicidal and act accordingly. Kinda works for me.

;-)
A cyclists rant - Collos25
Excellent philosophy
A cyclists rant - Dog
I remember this case well as its not all that far from where I lived at the time ~
tinyurl.com/2nvhbd
The cyclist was riding on the pavement, going downhill at 25 MPH when he hit & killed a pedestrian.
Sure, there are nutters about - on 2 wheels and 4, as has been said, personally speaking, I give the greatest respect to all on 2 wheels - as I drive along encased in mild steel & airbags, because I've been there, done that and (not) worn the lycra.
A cyclists rant - Mapmaker
If you kill someone while cycling you can just walk away with not more than £2500 fine
to pay (recently it was on the news). Remember this if you ever want to
sue cyclist to recover your loss.



Just because the maximum fine is 2,500 doesn't mean that the most you can sue a cyclist for is 2,500 if the cyclist has caused more damage than that. I bet the typical fine for causing death by dangerous driving, even when accompanied by 2 years in jail, is no more?

Unfortunately most of the people in this country cannot be sued for much. As they don't have anything. Which is why third party insurance should be compulsory for cyclists.


A cyclists rant - Statistical outlier
What an unpleasant thread this can be at times!

As a counterpoint, a previous gf of mine had a cycling uncle killed by a motorist who was not paying attention and ran through him at 60 mph. There was blood up the road for more than 100 m according to the police sketches of the area, and identification was a real problem. Forensics proved he was cycling in an appropriate part of the road, and his lights were working.

By avoiding turning up to the coroners on three separate occasions, said motorist delayed his attendance until after a year had passed. He then turned up to the coroners and apologised, saying he'd not been paying attention and was very sorry indeed.

His penalty? Nothing. All the death by careless etc. charges have to be laid within a year. Police and CPS didn't think death by dangerous would stick. He didn't even get three points.

So there you go, you anti-cyclist brigade. Get hit by a cyclist, possibly they get fined £2500. Hit and kill a cyclist, get a decent brief, you don't even lose your clean license.

Now a suggestion, why don't we all grow up and stop acting like a bunch of cliquey teenagers. A pedestrian can be a cyclist can be a motorist. A little consideration and thought would make the world a nicer place.

Edited by Gordon M on 20/08/2008 at 16:05

A cyclists rant - paulb {P}
www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/aug/04/politics.transpo...t
According to this it will be very difficult for acyclist to be in the wrong.


But that was 6 years ago - are there any current plans to implement it that you know of?

Not sure that making the motorist liable regardless of fault is a good idea at all, actually. It doesn't seem calculated to inspire responsible behaviour among cyclists and will inevitably cause even more resentment among drivers.

I'm with the "be considerate, whatever your chosen mode of progression" camp, FWIW.

Edited by paulb {P} on 20/08/2008 at 21:13

A cyclists rant - pendulum
As a pedestrian and a car driver, I've had a number of run-ins with cyclists. I've been confronted with cyclists coming around a corner (on the pavement) too fast and nearly hitting me. I've had them force me to wait at a Zebra crossing whilst they cycle past on the road. I've had them cycle out from pavements in to the road without looking and then shout obscenities after I've used the horn.

What proportion of cyclists killed in collisions with cars were at fault, I wonder?
A cyclists rant - Leif
I've had them cycle out from pavements in to
the road without looking


I've seen that. A cyclist was going at high speed along the pavement, then zoomed across a zebra crossing, forcing an oncoming van to emergency brake, swerve and skid. Then there's the ones that cycle on the wrong side of the road in dark clothing with no lights. Sometimes on unlit roads.
A cyclists rant - Lud
It is particularly annoying when a cyclist riding down the road suddenly swerves across a zebra constituting him or herself a pedestrian - but one with wheels - without warning. I let one do it the other day but in the past I have taken a firm line over this.

However it is just cheek, like expecting pedestrians to step aside when they are riding on the pavement. The rudest pavement cyclists are boys verging on adolescence, often with bikes too small for them. You can tell the little carphounds are rude by the look in their eye.

Fast cyclists - and one sees real athletes doing 20 or 30 miles an hour - can easily beat a car or public transport over five miles of London,
A cyclists rant - Mapmaker
I was somewhat surprised to overtake two (just, they must have been doing 25mph to my 30) in the Limehouse Link the other day. Surprise indeed; it clearly states "no cycles" at the tunnel entrance.
A cyclists rant - bathtub tom
>>A cyclist was going at high speed along the pavement, then zoomed across a zebra crossing

Does that make them fair game? I've certainly refused to give way for cyclists on pedestrian crossings, but only when I'm certain they're only pedestrian crossings, and not one of these breeds other than zebra.

I am a regular cyclist, with insurance, bell, helmet etc.
A cyclists rant - shawad
nearly hitting me. I've had them force me to wait at a Zebra crossing whilst
they cycle past on the road. I've had them cycle out from pavements in to
the road without looking and then shout obscenities after I've used the horn.


I've kicked/pushed a couple of cyclists off their bikes for doing this to me while I was on the zebra with my son in a pushchair. When they got up and started the rant of "what the pink fluffy dice are you doing", out comes the mobi and I ask if they want me to call the police.

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 21/08/2008 at 11:06

A cyclists rant - Statistical outlier
I've kicked/pushed a couple of cyclists off their bikes for doing this to me while
I was on the zebra with my son in a pushchair.


Sounds to me like you'd both need arresting and locking up!!
A cyclists rant - Humpy
I don't stop for cyclists on zebra crossings - they're not pedestrains and the rules requiring me to stop don't apply.
A cyclists rant - L'escargot
So if you fancy your doors being dented ............. just overtake whenever you see a right turn signal.


It sounds as if you've decided to have a permanently belligerent attitude whenever you're astride your bicycle. That's not a very good state of mind for any road user to have.
A cyclists rant - brunton_pasty
It sounds as if you've decided to have a permanently belligerent attitude whenever you're astride


So the OP was signalling to other road users, taking up the correct road position and wearing some hi-viz to help them be seen. How is this belligerent? What else were they supposed to do? Cyclists are like other road users in that they are allowed to turn right.
A cyclists rant - oilrag
Its not the cyclist or motorist though is it? Even walking through shopping centres people now walk straight in front of you, across your path as though they only care about themselves.

Ever noticed how if your looking at something in a store and someone else will walk straight across your front rather than walk behind you? It`s often the staff too.

Popular society has become more vulgar, it`s on TV, in the home and on your favourite locomotion, from train to taxi, bike, car or pogo stick.

As there is no fix within any meaningful time-scale, best option is to limit exposure to it while waiting for the remaining time to run out.

That`s why more than 50% of my annual mileage is done out of this country.
A cyclists rant - Dog
>Popular society has become more vulgar, it`s on TV, in the home and on your favourite locomotion, from train to taxi, bike, car or pogo stick.<

Welcome to the breakdown of society my friend - you ain't seen nutting yet !
A cyclists rant - Leif
"Its not the cyclist or motorist though is it? Even walking through shopping centres people now walk straight in front of you across your path as though they only care about themselves."

Things seem to have changed. A few week sback I was running along the side of a road, facing oncoming traffic (none), and decided to cross, so turned round, and moved out a bit, only to be scared witless by an Aston Martin coming at me at 70mph+ on the wrong side of the road. He/she was overtaking another car. Had I moved out further, I would have been a fatality. And there was another nutter in a Porsche following him. And last week I had to emergency brake when going round a blind bend to find a car coming towards me on MY side of the road. It was an impressive skid. And I sometimes have to brake when a car coming towards me overtakes an obstacle in his/her path, rather than stopping to let me by (as decreed by the Highway Code).

I don't think cyclists are especially bad. It is more a case of nutters in control of a fast machine, be it a bike, a car or whatever.

Is this worse then 10 years ago? Dunno.
A cyclists rant - Dog
>And there was another nutter in a Porsche following him.<

You're quite correct in your assertion comrade Leif, as I am a reformed nutter.
Having owned semi-quick cars such as Datsun 240Z, Dolomite Sprint, Toyota Supra, various V8's and a pride of Jaguars, to name but a few ... I didn't buy these cars to mimser along at or below the speed limit - could be why the insurance is much higher !
I've also been a biker & a cyclist so I can speak from both sides (2 faced ?)
In an "ideal world", people would love one another as themselves (steady on there)
But, in "The Real World" I ride on the defensive when cycling, in the knowledge that nobody cares for thee.
A cyclists rant - DP
I have nothing against cyclists, but I believe they should be required by law to have third party insurance cover if they want to use the roads. Every other type of vehicle does, and I see no reason why they should be exempt, given that a bicycle isn't significantly less capable of hospitalising a pedestrian or damaging other vehicles as a low powered motorcycle.


A cyclists rant - maz64
I have nothing against cyclists but I believe they should be required by law to
have third party insurance cover if they want to use the roads.


Looking at the CTC cyclists' website, £35 annual membership includes £10M 3rd party insurance in addition to anything else - seems pretty good value. Could you get it cheaper?

Part of my 3 day a week commute is by bike (I'm the one that stops at red lights :-) so thinking about getting cover.

F
A cyclists rant - L'escargot
>> It sounds as if you've decided to have a permanently belligerent attitude whenever you're
astride
How is this belligerent?


The oriiginal post read as if skorpio was ready to deliberately dent the door of any car that came within range. Perhaps skorpio himself could explain (not in riddles this time) what he meant.

Edited by L'escargot on 21/08/2008 at 14:59

A cyclists rant - bathtub tom
>>Looking at the CTC cyclists' website, £35 annual membership includes £10M 3rd party insurance in addition to anything else - seems pretty good value. Could you get it cheaper?

Look at your home contents insurance, you may be pleasantly surprised ;>)
A cyclists rant - maz64
>>Looking at the CTC cyclists' website £35 annual membership includes £10M 3rd party insurance in
addition to anything else - seems pretty good value. Could you get it cheaper?
Look at your home contents insurance you may be pleasantly surprised ;>)


You're correct - thanks! Just speaking to insurers on an unrelated matter and asked about this, and apparently the I've got property liability cover(?) up to £2m.

Cheers
F
A cyclists rant - skorpio
The oriiginal post read as if skorpio was ready to deliberately dent the door of any car that came within range. Perhaps skorpio himself could explain (not in riddles this time) what he meant.

In the heat of the moment, when the adrenalin is pumping and you've just nearly been wiped out by some muppet, there are times when you feel extremely angry and may feel the need to vent that anger by lashing out.

It's the fight or flight principle. OK so I may not kick a door but I have banged on the roof of a car which passed me within inches. If I happen to 'accidently' kick the car whilst trying to make an emergency evasive manouvre, then as far as I am concerned, the blame lies entirely with the motorist which cause it.

You must know how angry you can feel when some driver has cut you up or come within inches of ruining your car and your day.

On a bike, that feeling is multiplied because you don't have the same cocoon of safety around you.
A cyclists rant - L'escargot
You must know how angry you can feel when some driver has cut you up
or come within inches of ruining your car and your day.


Nope. Provided no actual damage is done to my car I just take in my stride. A miss is as good as a mile. Getting angry whilst motoring is not a good idea.
A cyclists rant - Roger Jones
Having provided a link (above) to the cyclist's part of the Highway Code, here's the motorist's part dealing with "Road users requiring extra care", which of course includes cyclists:

tinyurl.com/22b486

The Highway Code: that most helpful but most woefully neglected publication.
A cyclists rant - freakybacon
How ironic that the country that is the most anti cyclist in Europe is the one to pick up so many gold medals for cycling in the olympics.
A cyclists rant - skorpio
You must know how angry you can feel when some driver has cut you up
or come within inches of ruining your car and your day.


Nope. Provided no actual damage is done to my car I just take in my stride. A miss is as good as a mile. Getting angry whilst motoring is not a good idea.



Get cut up on a bike or feel a door mirror brush your elbow then tell me you don't feel a tad angry at the motorist.

You'd have to be a complete mollusc not to!
A cyclists rant - L'escargot
Get cut up on a bike or feel a door mirror brush your elbow then
tell me you don't feel a tad angry at the motorist.


I repeat ~ getting angry whilst motoring (or cycling) is not a good idea.
A cyclists rant - theterranaut
Wow. Such angst, and admissions of poor judgment and behaviour. Self control is all in the mind, you know.
On the plus side, on my way to work yesterday (Thursday) morning, I was overtaken by dozens of motorised road vehicles: not one of them cut me up or showed me any disrespect.
A few of them could have done with digging out the HC and getting a reminder on what solid white hazard lines mean, and I guess I could get upset about that- but am I perfect when driving a car? probably not, and I was passed well enough.

Yesterday, when an elderly Indian lady wandered into the road while I was having aquick lunchtime spin, did I shout a warning and plow on? Of course I didn't- I checked conditions were clear, slowed and drove around the obstruction, as I would have done at the wheel of a car.

On Tuesday, when I was forced to take the car, I spotted a lone cyclist at the head of a convoy of slower-moving vehicles. When it was my turn to pass, I checked the road ahead, checked nothing sneaky was trying to overtake me, indicated out, moved to the midline, and when it was safe to do so I indicated in and resumed my lane. Same as I would have done for a tractor or other slower vehicle. Result? Thumbs-up wave from a happy and safe cyclist, and a warm glow inside.

Wednesday morning, another cyclist draws up beside me at traffic lights. And promptly goes through them on red. I can understand his frustration with waiting, but those are the rules, no? I see some headshaking from car drivers. But I dont follow him, I know that I can get there on time and the reputation of cyclists now hangs on my actions.

Its all a mind game, for those who haven't realised yet. And cyclists and motor-vehicle users have a lot they can pick up from each other. Bad behaviour is seen on all sides every day, but we often fail to notice those who use the road well, with safety, and with respect for others. Bearing incidents of other users bad behaviour in mind as an excuse for your own misdemeanours is not a defence in the eyes of the law, I should imagine.

t
A cyclists rant - audi dave
It's been said before, but that the outcome of bad behavior on the roads - regardless of who's at fault - is usually worse for the cyclist.

It was a lot worse in the case of the 4 cyclists in Southampton on Wednesday evening. Going across the Itchen Bridge they were hit by a car. One cyclist dead and one critically ill. All four car occupants arrested.
A cyclists rant - b308
Its all a mind game for those who haven't realised yet. And cyclists and motor-vehicle
users have a lot they can pick up from each other. Bad behaviour is seen
on all sides every day but we often fail to notice those who use the
road well with safety and with respect for others. Bearing incidents of other users bad
behaviour in mind as an excuse for your own misdemeanours is not a defence in
the eyes of the law I should imagine.
t


Very neatly summarized, t!
A cyclists rant - Altea Ego
Modern cyclists are akin to terrorists. Ask any pedestrian. The total disregard they show for anyone on two feet means they deserve little or no respect of any kind. They should be forced, by law, to have comprehensive insurance and be licensed before they are allowed on the road.
A cyclists rant - alfalfa
Modern cyclists are akin to terrorists. Ask any pedestrian.


I don't think you will find that cyclists as a rule set off bombs in public transport or public place. I think you should ask someone who has been involved in a terrorist incident to compare cyclists and terrorists. It wasn't a cyclist who blew out the windows in my house.

alfalfa
A cyclists rant - Altea Ego
I think you should ask someone who has been involved
in a terrorist incident


Dont need to - I was caught up in the IRA bomb outside selfridges, 19th December 1974.
to compare cyclists and terrorists.


Each has provided me with as much danger to my life. Cyclists continue to do so. The IRA do not.


A cyclists rant - nortones2
There is far more risk to pedestrians from cars losing control and crossing the pavement, than from the hooligan element in the cycling population. Not that driving a car means that hooliganism/criminality is eliminated. Methinks AE is simply being controversial.
A cyclists rant - Altea Ego
Methinks AE is fed up to the back teeth of having to leap for his life as cyclists race along the thames path at 25mph or more TERRORISING people out for a gentle stroll and cursing and abusing them for not gettting out of the way.
A cyclists rant - Statistical outlier
Perhaps a digital camera and a talk with the local police might sort our these morons?? Also helpful would be to bear in mind that they are just that, not cyclists as a whole, any more than the blue LED and bodykit brigade are motorists.
A cyclists rant - Statistical outlier
Modern cyclists are akin to terrorists. Ask any pedestrian.


That is one of the most moronic observations that I have ever seen on these boards. Many of us on this site are cyclists - do you think that we are all 'terrorists'? Or perhaps we are just law abiding and sensible users of a mode of transportation that happens to suit our needs some of the time.

Get a grip man - there are hooligan cyclists, sure, but I see many more hooligan motorists round here, and I'm pretty sure that only one type of user who could come through the wall of my house if they lost control.
A cyclists rant - Altea Ego
> That is one of the most moronic observations that I have ever seen on these boards
> there are hooligan cyclists, sure,


whats it to be then? moronic or based on an element of practical experience? I am browned off to the back teeth with cyclists hollier than thou attitude and assuming the rest of the world owes them rights without having any of the responsibility of thier actions.

Bit like a terrorist faction really. The same blinkered belief they are blameless and right.

Yes moronic or not - I warm to my assertion.


A cyclists rant - Statistical outlier
I don't think the world owes me anything. Like most other people on here who happen to cycle, I use lights, a helmet and a high vis jacket. I stop at red lights, have 3rd party insurance, and am polite and considerate to walkers.

Why should I automatically get grief from you just because some idiots behave like the *deleted* they clearly are?
A cyclists rant - Altea Ego
Like most other people on here who happen to cycle.... have 3rd party insurance,

Nope

I bet you most people who cycle - on here or otherwise DONT have TP insurance,

Like it or not you are tarnished with the actions of others. Dont blame the messenger.
A cyclists rant - nortones2
AE's attitude is typical of the view that cyclists are an "out group". They are all bad, all to blame for each others actions. The "in-group" the motorist, is comprised of individuals. The in- group do not acquire the blame for the bad behaviour of other drivers.

Drivers views of cyclists were examined, in TRL 549.

A cyclists rant - Altea Ego
AE's attitude is typical of the view that cyclists are an "out group". They are
all bad all to blame for each others actions. The "in-group" the motorist is comprised
of individuals. The in- group do not acquire the blame for the bad behaviour of
other drivers.
Drivers views of cyclists were examined in TRL 549.


Wrong, you did not read my post. It is from a pedestrian's view. You are just as guilty of grouping.
A cyclists rant - nortones2
I read your post, and although you use your example as a walker, the attitude behind it is in line with the study.
A cyclists rant - maz64
I bet you most people who cycle - on here or otherwise DONT have TP
insurance


I didn't think I had but it turns out my home contents insurance covers me (see earlier post). Perhaps most are in this position? I don't know how 'standard' this is - my policy is about the cheapest I could find, from Swintons.
A cyclists rant - alfalfa
Is it my imagination or is the BR a less tolerant place than it used to be?


alfalfa
A cyclists rant - Statistical outlier
Is it my imagination or is the BR a less tolerant place than it used
to be?


No, I think you're right, sadly.
A cyclists rant - Lud
It hasn't become noticeably less tolerant since I have been coming here. Examples of true 'intolerance', while not unknown, are not all that common, surely? People often argue hard and even get hot under the collar, but reason appears to prevail most of the time. That doesn't mean people don't continue to disagree though.

A very robust mode of address, like AE's for example and mine sometimes among others, can look 'intolerant' without necessarily being that.
A cyclists rant - b308
A very robust mode of address


Must remember that phrase for the future, Lud!
A cyclists rant - borasport20
What Terranaut said.

You must be the change you want to see in the world.
Mahatma Gandhi
A cyclists rant - theterranaut
This is a hot one.

AE, I'd like to answer a couple of your points, which are no doubt founded on bitter experience.

I have sympathy with your position. I've never been a direct 'victim' of bad cycling on the road or pavement, but I've seen enough of it to make me shake my head and wonder how long some of these clowns will go before hurting or killing someone, theirselves excluded.
This morning, again on my regular commute, I again see a chap I occasionally see on his bike with the almost-ubiquitous white earbuds in place. Fair enough, many car drivers have the stereo turned up so loud that they are practically deaf, but this idiot, head down and going as quick as he can (which wasn't actually that quick) is going to fail to hear a car horn or shout from a pedestrian one of these days. And someone is going to get hurt.

From your descriptions of walks on the towpath, I am sure you have legal recourse and I would suggest you use it. There has been some dubiety about shared rights-of-way, but there is a code of conduct, published here:

www.waterscape.com/canals-and-rivers/regents-canal...t

The authorities are going to be interested in your reports, and I would seriously suggest that you gather evidence if necessary and report, before (another) tragedy occurs. I would even venture to suggest that, having been directly affected and borne witness to this stupidity, you have an obligation to act.

Sadly, I can see no point in your argument that licencing and forcing compulsory insurance on cyclists should be done. Most of the motor vehicle drivers on the road, including the idiot bus driver who literlally knocked my friend off his bike 6 weeks ago in Dumfries, are fully licenced and insured, and its proved no deterrent to bad behaviour. Tolerance, awareness of other road users on this shared resource, and respect are going to win the day, together with a bit of courage to act when things are obviously wrong.

For those who say that cyclists pay no road tax...well, its been quite some time since any of us paid anything called 'road tax'.The roads are a shared resource, funded largely from central taxation, very little of what we used to call "road tax" would seem to be actually spent on the roads, so the argument that cyclists have no right to use the roads is a non-starter.

tt

Edited by theterranaut on 22/08/2008 at 17:50

A cyclists rant - alfalfa
What a sensible post theterranaut!


alfalfa
A cyclists rant - skorpio
and there endeth the cyclists rant.

Have a good safe weekend everyone!
A cyclists rant - nortones2
Hear, hear theterranaut.
A cyclists rant - Leif
It is all about mutual respect isn't it. These last few days I've frequently come across a cyclist or two on a narrow road, and held back until it was safe to overtake. They have a right to use the road, and who cares about arriving a few seconds later at a destination.

But the lycra crowd do really cheese me off with their two fingers in the air attitude. On Saturday morning I headed down a windy road and came across a long line of lycra clad cyclists, some riding two or three abreast, in a long stream as long as a lorry, making overtaking impossible. There was no attempt to help cars and it was as if they were proud to create a long queue of cars, and for many miles I was doing 10-15mph behind this lot. No doubt some people would have attempted an overtake, but it was not safe. I've also had such cyclists purposefully pull in front of me at a junction, forcing me to crawl along behind them. And a year or so ago in the middle of the countryside on a steep path through a wood, I had to jump out of the way as a stream of lycra clad cyclists literally hurtled down the path at a dangerously high speed. They shouted something like "Get out of the way". Heaven help any poor walker with a dog not on a leash. Or someone with poor hearing. An absolute menace. I don't get angry, but I have little respect for these yobs who seem not to give a damn for anyone else. It surprises me as you would think that anyone serious about a hobby would have organisations which stressed manners and creating a positive image. Oh well.

And yes I do endorse the initial rant against bad drivers.

Edited by Webmaster on 25/08/2008 at 02:03

A cyclists rant - Roger Jones
Apart from Highway Code links, I was going to stay out of this, but . . .

I can't get rid of the impression that the percentage of bad attitudes and behaviour among cyclists is significantly higher than the equivalent percentage among motorists Perhaps it is because they reckon that the best form of defence is to be aggressive, and maybe there is something of a pioneering spirit about the choice to cycle. I could be wrong, but that's the way it strikes me, and has done for years, even decades.

I don't reciprocate. I treat cyclists with as much caution, calmness and clearance as I would a horse on the road.

That still doesn't explain riding on the pavement, switching without a hint from pavement to road and back again, riding across pedestrian crossings, running red lights, riding the wrong way on one-way streets, and all other illegal and perverse conduct -- which, in several instances I have observed, can also involve excessive speed in unsuitable circumstances. I am reminded of two lunatics riding flat out past a string of parked cars outside a country pub on a narrow lane, at a speed far in excess of that which any motorist would have done. Had one of those doors been opened unexpectedly there would have been a serious accident, and there are no prizes for guessing which party would have been blamed. Yobs, hooligans? Actually a pair of apparently well bred and well spoken people in their 30s.

But those cyclists who do position themselves and signal well, and obviously ride sensibly and with respect for other road users and pedestrians, get my thanks and respect, as do other road users who behave sensibly, considerately and with respect for all around them.

Edited by Roger Jones on 24/08/2008 at 18:03

A cyclists rant - bathtub tom
I recall an item in a local newspaper:

Police were looking for a man who threw his bicycle through the back window of a taxi.

I think we weren't being told the whole story ;>)
A cyclists rant - L'escargot
I give cyclists a wide berth to ensure they don't damage my car as I pass them.
A cyclists rant - bear99
My Husband and I were cycling back through our estate (single file) when a car overtook and immediatly turned left. My husband was forced around the corner and i wobbled along and almost got knocked off by a car pulling out of the junction (not his fault- he saw one bike go left and assumed i would as well)

The car who caused the problem was forced to stop becaause of a parked car and naturally my husband confronted her. she replied she could not judge how fast we were going- ER so should you be driving at all?

Anyway after telling me to go away - DD she went off in her safe little box leaving me shaking like a leaf. she wasn't in the least bit sorry. she was a woman from WORK! you'd apologise at least wouldnt you!!!

Its about respect and having a bit of sense on all sides. Bike riders should ride courtiously as well, keeping in and using clear signals- give car drivers a chance. Car drivers should realise most bike riders have cars and do pay tax and have every right to be there. if you knock a cyclist off becasue you can't be bothered to give them room etc etc and they die you are going to have a lot more problems and things to think about.

Give each other room for goodness sake. you wouldnt overtake someone in a corridor at work an inch from their nose and then cut them up to turn into your office would you!!!! hahahaha

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 28/08/2008 at 11:20

A cyclists rant - L'escargot
What I don't understand is why, in general, cyclists don't turn their head and glance over their right shoulder any more. When passing a parked vehicle, or turning, glancing over the right shoulder before carrying out the manoeuvre is essential for the cyclist's safety.
A cyclists rant - movilogo
she replied she could not judge how fast we were going


Although I'm not supporting her action, but it is a fact that most motorists (who are not cyclists themselves) had no idea how does a cyclist feel when car zooms past him.

When I first cycled on a main road (40 mph thru town), I was literally shaking when cars were zooming past me at 35-40 mph speed.

After that I realized that it is too dangerous cycling on a main road. So nowadays I do my fun cycling only on roads where there are hardly any traffic.


IMHO, unless we have dedicated cycle lanes, cycling is dangerous on main roads.




A cyclists rant - pyruse
If you think 40mph raods are bad, you should try cycling on country lanes with juggernauts going by and cars whizzing past at 60mph.
The slipstream from a big truck going by at speed is almost enough to knock you off the bike on its own.

If more drivers cycled, they'd realise just how vulnerable you feel on a bike sometimes.
A cyclists rant - Dog
S'funny because I was saying to er indoors just minutes ago that "more people are turning to cycling now, what with the cost of fuel etc., etc., etc."
She replied "it would be ok if it wasn't for all the nutters abot on the roads (haha!)
I sed "sure, some peops do indeed get squashed now & again, but then some peops get burnt to death in aircraft now & again, some peops get smashed in trains etc., etc.,
When we lived in Los Christianos, Tenerife, we used to regularly cycle on the main Autopista up to La Caleta near Santiago (you know it well :)) with heavy Mecedes lorries thundering along driven by heavy Spanish Hombre's, but we're still alive (just)
Yes, in an "ideal world" them big nasty cars would be underground and cylists would have their own cycle paths, but ... life's not like that, is it.
A cyclists rant - maz64
I sed "sure some peops do indeed get squashed now & again but then some
peops get burnt to death in aircraft now & again some peops get smashed in
trains etc. etc.


I think the number of cyclists injured or killed on our roads is relatively high isn't it - anyone got figures?
A cyclists rant - b308
According to the DfT site, for 2005:

"Pedal cyclist casualties fell from 16,648 in 2004 to 16,561, a drop of 1 per cent. The number of cyclists killed or seriously injured rose by 2 per cent overall to 2,360, and the number of fatalities increased 10 per cent from 134 to 148. The overall pedal cyclist casualty rates per hundred million vehicle kilometres have fallen by 6 percent compared to 2004."

If you google it you'll find lots of links with cyclists killed or injured for a wide variety of reasons, from motorists texting and not looking where they are going (grr!) to cyclists going under a lorry because they were wearing headphones and didn't hear the lorry...

Edited by b308 on 28/08/2008 at 12:26

A cyclists rant - bintang
I tried resuming cycling a few years back. After three months, I concluded it was far too dangerous and that many motorists would knock me down as soon as look at me.

Wearing my motoring hat, I find that many cyclists turn with insufficient notice and expect that cars will anticipate and give way. (Many child pedestrians behave in a similar way when crossing roads.)
A cyclists rant - maz64
After three months I concluded it was
far too dangerous and that many motorists would knock me down as soon as look
at me.


That's a pity- where were you doing your cycling? I don't get that impression cycling into Reading and back - I'm aware of the dangers, but don't feel that drivers are out to get me.
A cyclists rant - TheOilBurner
I find that many cyclists turn with insufficient notice and expect
that cars will anticipate and give way. (Many child pedestrians behave in a similar way
when crossing roads.)


I think that would be because on a bike everything happens much more slowly, i.e. 10 yards from a junction on a bike seems reasonable notice of a turn (to some...) but someone in a car might signal at 100 yards. All relative in terms of speed I suppose.

I'm not saying that's right, just probably why it happens.
A cyclists rant - L'escargot
As I said earlier, when a cyclist intends to pass a parked vehicle, or turn right, glancing over the right shoulder before carrying out the manoeuvre is essential for the cyclist's safety.

I can't remember the last time I saw a cyclist do this. Do you do it?
A cyclists rant - TheOilBurner
Yes I do, mostly because I'm an experienced driver and know I need to a) work out what's happening before turning and b) give following motorists a hint that I'm about to do something.

I guess cyclists who don't drive may not have that insight and they're the ones you notice most because of the havoc they cause! :)
A cyclists rant - FotheringtonThomas
when a cyclist intends to pass a parked vehicle or turn
right glancing over the right shoulder before carrying out the manoeuvre is essential
I can't remember the last time I saw a cyclist do this. Do you do it?



Yes. I passed my Cycling Proficiency Test.

I also do the same on a motorbike, and tend to do the same in a car.
A cyclists rant - Bagpuss
glancing over the right shoulder before carrying out the manoeuvre is essential for the cyclist's safety.
I can't remember the last time I saw a cyclist do this. Do you do it?


No, I look over my left shoulder;-)

In general, I feel far safer cycling here in Germany than I used to in the UK.
A cyclists rant - apm
glancing over the right shoulder before carrying out the manoeuvre is essential for the cyclist's safety.
I can't remember the last time I saw a cyclist do this. Do you do it?


I don't cycle a great deal, but I always do this (in addition to checking mirrors) on my vespa. When I learned to cycle (cycling proficiency, although I've lost my certificate), this was called the 'lifesaver' look and it was drummed into us that this was a literal rather than metaphorical name! Indeed it has served me well and become a good habit, whatever form of transport I'm using. I have even caught myself doing one as a pedestrian from time to time...

I have noticed that I'd say about half of cyclists I encounter on my commute look behind them when pulling out. It does in my experience tend to be the 'lyrca brigade' that don't do this- they do seem to be terribly focussed on making progress sometimes.

Generally I like to think I'm pretty tolerant of all vehicles, and have noticed bad/ dangerous driving from all road and pavement users. For context, I ride 15 miles in to central London from kent and back.

Cheers all,

Alex.
A cyclists rant - Mapmaker
I think cyclists in London are out to terrify drivers. When you set off from a set of lights with twenty cyclists around you - to the left, right, before and behind - it's terrifying as a driver.