It sounds as if you've decided to have a permanently belligerent attitude whenever you're astride
So the OP was signalling to other road users, taking up the correct road position and wearing some hi-viz to help them be seen. How is this belligerent? What else were they supposed to do? Cyclists are like other road users in that they are allowed to turn right.
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Its not the cyclist or motorist though is it? Even walking through shopping centres people now walk straight in front of you, across your path as though they only care about themselves.
Ever noticed how if your looking at something in a store and someone else will walk straight across your front rather than walk behind you? It`s often the staff too.
Popular society has become more vulgar, it`s on TV, in the home and on your favourite locomotion, from train to taxi, bike, car or pogo stick.
As there is no fix within any meaningful time-scale, best option is to limit exposure to it while waiting for the remaining time to run out.
That`s why more than 50% of my annual mileage is done out of this country.
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>Popular society has become more vulgar, it`s on TV, in the home and on your favourite locomotion, from train to taxi, bike, car or pogo stick.<
Welcome to the breakdown of society my friend - you ain't seen nutting yet !
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"Its not the cyclist or motorist though is it? Even walking through shopping centres people now walk straight in front of you across your path as though they only care about themselves."
Things seem to have changed. A few week sback I was running along the side of a road, facing oncoming traffic (none), and decided to cross, so turned round, and moved out a bit, only to be scared witless by an Aston Martin coming at me at 70mph+ on the wrong side of the road. He/she was overtaking another car. Had I moved out further, I would have been a fatality. And there was another nutter in a Porsche following him. And last week I had to emergency brake when going round a blind bend to find a car coming towards me on MY side of the road. It was an impressive skid. And I sometimes have to brake when a car coming towards me overtakes an obstacle in his/her path, rather than stopping to let me by (as decreed by the Highway Code).
I don't think cyclists are especially bad. It is more a case of nutters in control of a fast machine, be it a bike, a car or whatever.
Is this worse then 10 years ago? Dunno.
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>And there was another nutter in a Porsche following him.<
You're quite correct in your assertion comrade Leif, as I am a reformed nutter.
Having owned semi-quick cars such as Datsun 240Z, Dolomite Sprint, Toyota Supra, various V8's and a pride of Jaguars, to name but a few ... I didn't buy these cars to mimser along at or below the speed limit - could be why the insurance is much higher !
I've also been a biker & a cyclist so I can speak from both sides (2 faced ?)
In an "ideal world", people would love one another as themselves (steady on there)
But, in "The Real World" I ride on the defensive when cycling, in the knowledge that nobody cares for thee.
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I have nothing against cyclists, but I believe they should be required by law to have third party insurance cover if they want to use the roads. Every other type of vehicle does, and I see no reason why they should be exempt, given that a bicycle isn't significantly less capable of hospitalising a pedestrian or damaging other vehicles as a low powered motorcycle.
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I have nothing against cyclists but I believe they should be required by law to have third party insurance cover if they want to use the roads.
Looking at the CTC cyclists' website, £35 annual membership includes £10M 3rd party insurance in addition to anything else - seems pretty good value. Could you get it cheaper?
Part of my 3 day a week commute is by bike (I'm the one that stops at red lights :-) so thinking about getting cover.
F
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>> It sounds as if you've decided to have a permanently belligerent attitude whenever you're astride How is this belligerent?
The oriiginal post read as if skorpio was ready to deliberately dent the door of any car that came within range. Perhaps skorpio himself could explain (not in riddles this time) what he meant.
Edited by L'escargot on 21/08/2008 at 14:59
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>>Looking at the CTC cyclists' website, £35 annual membership includes £10M 3rd party insurance in addition to anything else - seems pretty good value. Could you get it cheaper?
Look at your home contents insurance, you may be pleasantly surprised ;>)
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>>Looking at the CTC cyclists' website £35 annual membership includes £10M 3rd party insurance in addition to anything else - seems pretty good value. Could you get it cheaper? Look at your home contents insurance you may be pleasantly surprised ;>)
You're correct - thanks! Just speaking to insurers on an unrelated matter and asked about this, and apparently the I've got property liability cover(?) up to £2m.
Cheers
F
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The oriiginal post read as if skorpio was ready to deliberately dent the door of any car that came within range. Perhaps skorpio himself could explain (not in riddles this time) what he meant.
In the heat of the moment, when the adrenalin is pumping and you've just nearly been wiped out by some muppet, there are times when you feel extremely angry and may feel the need to vent that anger by lashing out.
It's the fight or flight principle. OK so I may not kick a door but I have banged on the roof of a car which passed me within inches. If I happen to 'accidently' kick the car whilst trying to make an emergency evasive manouvre, then as far as I am concerned, the blame lies entirely with the motorist which cause it.
You must know how angry you can feel when some driver has cut you up or come within inches of ruining your car and your day.
On a bike, that feeling is multiplied because you don't have the same cocoon of safety around you.
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You must know how angry you can feel when some driver has cut you up or come within inches of ruining your car and your day.
Nope. Provided no actual damage is done to my car I just take in my stride. A miss is as good as a mile. Getting angry whilst motoring is not a good idea.
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Having provided a link (above) to the cyclist's part of the Highway Code, here's the motorist's part dealing with "Road users requiring extra care", which of course includes cyclists:
tinyurl.com/22b486
The Highway Code: that most helpful but most woefully neglected publication.
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How ironic that the country that is the most anti cyclist in Europe is the one to pick up so many gold medals for cycling in the olympics.
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You must know how angry you can feel when some driver has cut you up or come within inches of ruining your car and your day.
Nope. Provided no actual damage is done to my car I just take in my stride. A miss is as good as a mile. Getting angry whilst motoring is not a good idea.
Get cut up on a bike or feel a door mirror brush your elbow then tell me you don't feel a tad angry at the motorist.
You'd have to be a complete mollusc not to!
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Get cut up on a bike or feel a door mirror brush your elbow then tell me you don't feel a tad angry at the motorist.
I repeat ~ getting angry whilst motoring (or cycling) is not a good idea.
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Wow. Such angst, and admissions of poor judgment and behaviour. Self control is all in the mind, you know.
On the plus side, on my way to work yesterday (Thursday) morning, I was overtaken by dozens of motorised road vehicles: not one of them cut me up or showed me any disrespect.
A few of them could have done with digging out the HC and getting a reminder on what solid white hazard lines mean, and I guess I could get upset about that- but am I perfect when driving a car? probably not, and I was passed well enough.
Yesterday, when an elderly Indian lady wandered into the road while I was having aquick lunchtime spin, did I shout a warning and plow on? Of course I didn't- I checked conditions were clear, slowed and drove around the obstruction, as I would have done at the wheel of a car.
On Tuesday, when I was forced to take the car, I spotted a lone cyclist at the head of a convoy of slower-moving vehicles. When it was my turn to pass, I checked the road ahead, checked nothing sneaky was trying to overtake me, indicated out, moved to the midline, and when it was safe to do so I indicated in and resumed my lane. Same as I would have done for a tractor or other slower vehicle. Result? Thumbs-up wave from a happy and safe cyclist, and a warm glow inside.
Wednesday morning, another cyclist draws up beside me at traffic lights. And promptly goes through them on red. I can understand his frustration with waiting, but those are the rules, no? I see some headshaking from car drivers. But I dont follow him, I know that I can get there on time and the reputation of cyclists now hangs on my actions.
Its all a mind game, for those who haven't realised yet. And cyclists and motor-vehicle users have a lot they can pick up from each other. Bad behaviour is seen on all sides every day, but we often fail to notice those who use the road well, with safety, and with respect for others. Bearing incidents of other users bad behaviour in mind as an excuse for your own misdemeanours is not a defence in the eyes of the law, I should imagine.
t
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It's been said before, but that the outcome of bad behavior on the roads - regardless of who's at fault - is usually worse for the cyclist.
It was a lot worse in the case of the 4 cyclists in Southampton on Wednesday evening. Going across the Itchen Bridge they were hit by a car. One cyclist dead and one critically ill. All four car occupants arrested.
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Its all a mind game for those who haven't realised yet. And cyclists and motor-vehicle users have a lot they can pick up from each other. Bad behaviour is seen on all sides every day but we often fail to notice those who use the road well with safety and with respect for others. Bearing incidents of other users bad behaviour in mind as an excuse for your own misdemeanours is not a defence in the eyes of the law I should imagine. t
Very neatly summarized, t!
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Modern cyclists are akin to terrorists. Ask any pedestrian. The total disregard they show for anyone on two feet means they deserve little or no respect of any kind. They should be forced, by law, to have comprehensive insurance and be licensed before they are allowed on the road.
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Modern cyclists are akin to terrorists. Ask any pedestrian.
I don't think you will find that cyclists as a rule set off bombs in public transport or public place. I think you should ask someone who has been involved in a terrorist incident to compare cyclists and terrorists. It wasn't a cyclist who blew out the windows in my house.
alfalfa
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I think you should ask someone who has been involved in a terrorist incident
Dont need to - I was caught up in the IRA bomb outside selfridges, 19th December 1974.
to compare cyclists and terrorists.
Each has provided me with as much danger to my life. Cyclists continue to do so. The IRA do not.
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There is far more risk to pedestrians from cars losing control and crossing the pavement, than from the hooligan element in the cycling population. Not that driving a car means that hooliganism/criminality is eliminated. Methinks AE is simply being controversial.
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Methinks AE is fed up to the back teeth of having to leap for his life as cyclists race along the thames path at 25mph or more TERRORISING people out for a gentle stroll and cursing and abusing them for not gettting out of the way.
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Perhaps a digital camera and a talk with the local police might sort our these morons?? Also helpful would be to bear in mind that they are just that, not cyclists as a whole, any more than the blue LED and bodykit brigade are motorists.
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Modern cyclists are akin to terrorists. Ask any pedestrian.
That is one of the most moronic observations that I have ever seen on these boards. Many of us on this site are cyclists - do you think that we are all 'terrorists'? Or perhaps we are just law abiding and sensible users of a mode of transportation that happens to suit our needs some of the time.
Get a grip man - there are hooligan cyclists, sure, but I see many more hooligan motorists round here, and I'm pretty sure that only one type of user who could come through the wall of my house if they lost control.
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> That is one of the most moronic observations that I have ever seen on these boards
> there are hooligan cyclists, sure,
whats it to be then? moronic or based on an element of practical experience? I am browned off to the back teeth with cyclists hollier than thou attitude and assuming the rest of the world owes them rights without having any of the responsibility of thier actions.
Bit like a terrorist faction really. The same blinkered belief they are blameless and right.
Yes moronic or not - I warm to my assertion.
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I don't think the world owes me anything. Like most other people on here who happen to cycle, I use lights, a helmet and a high vis jacket. I stop at red lights, have 3rd party insurance, and am polite and considerate to walkers.
Why should I automatically get grief from you just because some idiots behave like the *deleted* they clearly are?
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Like most other people on here who happen to cycle.... have 3rd party insurance,
Nope
I bet you most people who cycle - on here or otherwise DONT have TP insurance,
Like it or not you are tarnished with the actions of others. Dont blame the messenger.
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AE's attitude is typical of the view that cyclists are an "out group". They are all bad, all to blame for each others actions. The "in-group" the motorist, is comprised of individuals. The in- group do not acquire the blame for the bad behaviour of other drivers.
Drivers views of cyclists were examined, in TRL 549.
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AE's attitude is typical of the view that cyclists are an "out group". They are all bad all to blame for each others actions. The "in-group" the motorist is comprised of individuals. The in- group do not acquire the blame for the bad behaviour of other drivers. Drivers views of cyclists were examined in TRL 549.
Wrong, you did not read my post. It is from a pedestrian's view. You are just as guilty of grouping.
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I read your post, and although you use your example as a walker, the attitude behind it is in line with the study.
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I bet you most people who cycle - on here or otherwise DONT have TP insurance
I didn't think I had but it turns out my home contents insurance covers me (see earlier post). Perhaps most are in this position? I don't know how 'standard' this is - my policy is about the cheapest I could find, from Swintons.
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Is it my imagination or is the BR a less tolerant place than it used to be?
alfalfa
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Is it my imagination or is the BR a less tolerant place than it used to be?
No, I think you're right, sadly.
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It hasn't become noticeably less tolerant since I have been coming here. Examples of true 'intolerance', while not unknown, are not all that common, surely? People often argue hard and even get hot under the collar, but reason appears to prevail most of the time. That doesn't mean people don't continue to disagree though.
A very robust mode of address, like AE's for example and mine sometimes among others, can look 'intolerant' without necessarily being that.
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A very robust mode of address
Must remember that phrase for the future, Lud!
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What Terranaut said.
You must be the change you want to see in the world.
Mahatma Gandhi
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This is a hot one.
AE, I'd like to answer a couple of your points, which are no doubt founded on bitter experience.
I have sympathy with your position. I've never been a direct 'victim' of bad cycling on the road or pavement, but I've seen enough of it to make me shake my head and wonder how long some of these clowns will go before hurting or killing someone, theirselves excluded.
This morning, again on my regular commute, I again see a chap I occasionally see on his bike with the almost-ubiquitous white earbuds in place. Fair enough, many car drivers have the stereo turned up so loud that they are practically deaf, but this idiot, head down and going as quick as he can (which wasn't actually that quick) is going to fail to hear a car horn or shout from a pedestrian one of these days. And someone is going to get hurt.
From your descriptions of walks on the towpath, I am sure you have legal recourse and I would suggest you use it. There has been some dubiety about shared rights-of-way, but there is a code of conduct, published here:
www.waterscape.com/canals-and-rivers/regents-canal...t
The authorities are going to be interested in your reports, and I would seriously suggest that you gather evidence if necessary and report, before (another) tragedy occurs. I would even venture to suggest that, having been directly affected and borne witness to this stupidity, you have an obligation to act.
Sadly, I can see no point in your argument that licencing and forcing compulsory insurance on cyclists should be done. Most of the motor vehicle drivers on the road, including the idiot bus driver who literlally knocked my friend off his bike 6 weeks ago in Dumfries, are fully licenced and insured, and its proved no deterrent to bad behaviour. Tolerance, awareness of other road users on this shared resource, and respect are going to win the day, together with a bit of courage to act when things are obviously wrong.
For those who say that cyclists pay no road tax...well, its been quite some time since any of us paid anything called 'road tax'.The roads are a shared resource, funded largely from central taxation, very little of what we used to call "road tax" would seem to be actually spent on the roads, so the argument that cyclists have no right to use the roads is a non-starter.
tt
Edited by theterranaut on 22/08/2008 at 17:50
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What a sensible post theterranaut!
alfalfa
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and there endeth the cyclists rant.
Have a good safe weekend everyone!
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It is all about mutual respect isn't it. These last few days I've frequently come across a cyclist or two on a narrow road, and held back until it was safe to overtake. They have a right to use the road, and who cares about arriving a few seconds later at a destination.
But the lycra crowd do really cheese me off with their two fingers in the air attitude. On Saturday morning I headed down a windy road and came across a long line of lycra clad cyclists, some riding two or three abreast, in a long stream as long as a lorry, making overtaking impossible. There was no attempt to help cars and it was as if they were proud to create a long queue of cars, and for many miles I was doing 10-15mph behind this lot. No doubt some people would have attempted an overtake, but it was not safe. I've also had such cyclists purposefully pull in front of me at a junction, forcing me to crawl along behind them. And a year or so ago in the middle of the countryside on a steep path through a wood, I had to jump out of the way as a stream of lycra clad cyclists literally hurtled down the path at a dangerously high speed. They shouted something like "Get out of the way". Heaven help any poor walker with a dog not on a leash. Or someone with poor hearing. An absolute menace. I don't get angry, but I have little respect for these yobs who seem not to give a damn for anyone else. It surprises me as you would think that anyone serious about a hobby would have organisations which stressed manners and creating a positive image. Oh well.
And yes I do endorse the initial rant against bad drivers.
Edited by Webmaster on 25/08/2008 at 02:03
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Apart from Highway Code links, I was going to stay out of this, but . . .
I can't get rid of the impression that the percentage of bad attitudes and behaviour among cyclists is significantly higher than the equivalent percentage among motorists Perhaps it is because they reckon that the best form of defence is to be aggressive, and maybe there is something of a pioneering spirit about the choice to cycle. I could be wrong, but that's the way it strikes me, and has done for years, even decades.
I don't reciprocate. I treat cyclists with as much caution, calmness and clearance as I would a horse on the road.
That still doesn't explain riding on the pavement, switching without a hint from pavement to road and back again, riding across pedestrian crossings, running red lights, riding the wrong way on one-way streets, and all other illegal and perverse conduct -- which, in several instances I have observed, can also involve excessive speed in unsuitable circumstances. I am reminded of two lunatics riding flat out past a string of parked cars outside a country pub on a narrow lane, at a speed far in excess of that which any motorist would have done. Had one of those doors been opened unexpectedly there would have been a serious accident, and there are no prizes for guessing which party would have been blamed. Yobs, hooligans? Actually a pair of apparently well bred and well spoken people in their 30s.
But those cyclists who do position themselves and signal well, and obviously ride sensibly and with respect for other road users and pedestrians, get my thanks and respect, as do other road users who behave sensibly, considerately and with respect for all around them.
Edited by Roger Jones on 24/08/2008 at 18:03
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I recall an item in a local newspaper:
Police were looking for a man who threw his bicycle through the back window of a taxi.
I think we weren't being told the whole story ;>)
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