Nope, there aren't any Spec B diesels and the OP is after a Spec B.
I'd be interested to hear from any Legacy diesel owners though.
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Thanks very much for all the tips and suggestions. People's experiences are really encouraging. I'll let you know how I get on.
Thanks again.
Pete
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Couple more questions:
1. I believe that the service intervals are 12k. When are the 'big' services? Do these cars have a cambelt? When is it due for changing?
2. Any recommendations for Subaru dealers in the Midlands/North?
Thanks
Pete
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The big expensive dealer based services used to be in 4th year or 48K but by then you will be supporting a Subaru independent specialist
In the past when I ran a series of Legacy turbos there was only one place to take them for customer care - Monks Heath Garage outside of Knutsford
Always use premium oils do not skimp on the factory/OEM oil filters
Enjoy the 7k rpm whoosh experience
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premium oils do not skimp on the factory/OEM oil filters Enjoy the 7k rpm whoosh experience
Envy is an emotion seldom really felt at my age... But all the same, knowImean?
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Couple of things to add.
I bought a new Impreza 2.0 nearly a year ago (last of the 'old shape' saloons). Very very pleased with the car. My first Subaru and I don't think it will be the last. It has so far been '100%' and I always enjoy driving it; economy on my particular model is pretty good too (30-37mpg without trying too hard). They certainly feel well made and bolted to the road.
A few things... I found out that one of the big Subaru dealers near to me (Research Garage Subaru, near Nuneaton) has recently stopped selling Subaru. This really surprised me because they had superb premises in a prime location and a good sized territory. A bit of 'Googling' shows that some other Subaru dealers seem to have folded this year too. So dealerships could become few and far between if the trend continues. I guess the deteriorating economy and price of fuel may mean that cars like these ('niche' market with less than 1% share) don't sell in sufficient numbers to give dealers a viable business. You don't see many new Impreza hatches on the road, and they should be the bread and butter model.
The other thing to be aware of is that Subaru parts can be very very very expensive. I did a bit of research before I bought mine and to be honest some parts are just staggeringly expensive. I was thinking about a Legacy at one time, and for example a standard Legacy 2.0 exhaust is something like £1500 exc. the cat. It appears that there is no aftermarket part available (probably not enough demand). The chances are that you won't need many parts of course, but I reckon a Spec.B would be one of those cars whereby a major component failing at over 5 years old could potentially write-off the car. I think you need to keep this in mind and its probably one additional reason that used models are relatively cheap.
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The other thing to be aware of is that Subaru parts can be very very very expensive. I did a bit of research before I bought mine and to be honest some parts are just staggeringly expensive.
Thanks for this - could you tell me where I can get hold of this kind of information?
Thanks
Pete
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No cambelt on a 3 litre.
Services every 10k on the H6 and turbo engines.
Service parts like filters are cheap enough from the dealer. OEM Brake pads and discs can be bought cheaper elsewhere. Exhausts certainly can be dear but last for ages. My previous car was a base model Legacy 2 litre which I sold at 6 years old and 135k miles and still on the original exhaust. IIRC, a back box was £150 but would last at least 6 years. A clutch cost me £600 at the main dealer at 120k miles but it had had a hard life!
The sevice costs so far on my Spec B are:
1000 miles: £50.15
10k miles: £296.19 including the bodywork service which includes wax injection.
20k miles: £198.45 including four wheel alignment.
Just coming up to the 30k service in a month or two which may include front pads. Rears are still fine and all discs good.
Only other cost has been four tyres replaced at around 2.5-3mm and 20k miles approx. which cost £515.97.
Note that all except the tyres was at my local main dealer and Lincolnshire labour rates.
All in all, not bad for a performance saloon. Yes I know a Mondeo would be cheaper, but a BMW 3 series wouldn't plus would cost a lot more to buy at equivalent specification.
What age/mileage car are you looking at Pete?
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Forgot to mention, my old 2000 W plate Legacy which I changed at 135k was faultless other than the clutch. It never failed an MOT and needed no parts other than filters, pads and discs. No bushes, shocks, nothing wore out or went wrong. The much derided interior showed virtually no wear. Subarus really are well made out of quality materials.
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What age/mileage car are you looking at Pete?
Nick, I'm looking for up to 4 years/40K. A tourer with manual transmission.
The advice from HJ owners about servicing etc costs have been very helpful. I'm aware that a Spec B is an expensive proposition, especially in contrast to my current Mazda 323 which costs me virtually nothing to keep on the road (particularly as half my mileage is business and I charge clients 40p per mile). However, I've done my sums and the reality is that if I want a car with the Spec B's abilities, it is going to cost a fair bit to run.
Thanks again for all the info/advice.
Pete
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I had a 3.0R SpecB (now have the diesel) and would echo everyone's comments about the peach of an engine and its banzai character! Mine was the auto with paddles which worked really well but in hindsight and only IMO I think the manual probably would add just a bit to the driving experience with the extra performance. The SpecB is a firm riding car and you get some bump and thump come through and a fair bit of tyre roar cruising at high speed but nowhere near as bad as the BMW 320d on run flats that I tested. They use fuel at an alarming rate and they definitely prefer premium unleaded. I used to average 25mpg on a long run and 21 locally, often dropping below that when out for some fun. And fun is the right word; they are a riot to drive with handling and grip that astonish. Because of a change in my work and travel, I was putting in more than £500 a month of fuel into mine and figured with the VED and credit crunch worsening, it would be best to off load it and get into something "sensible" but I was smitten with the Legacy?s qualities so sold it and waited 10 weeks for the diesel.
If I didn't have a company car, didn't have to cover big mileages and had some cash available I'd go straight back to a SpecB in a heart beat, although now with the car market the way it is, I might be tempted to give it another six months as prices are only going one way.
The only thing I found I missed from the car was a front interior light - you get a massive one in the middle of the roof but it doesn't help when you're looking for stuff in the front in the dark. The sat nav isn't the best - mine was allegedly the latest disc and in France last year it missed loads of roads some of which didn't look recent additions. It is also prone to routing you way off the shortest or fastest route - I found myself not trusting it and double checking on any new journeys or when rerouting. Buying the diesel I deliberately shunned the sat nav model, saving £1500 and bought a TomTom with euro maps, free updates, intelligent routes, traffic info, camera detectors with free updates, bluetooth, voice input and kitchen sink for less than the cost of a dealer supplied upgrade.
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As regards service/repair costs, I think that you will find that most cars have fairly similar routine service costs. For most cars its oil, a couple of filters and then visual checks. So you are probably paying £100 for parts and then £100 or so for an hours labour. Whether its a BMW, MB or a Vauxhall the price is probably not going to be massively different.
I think the crunch comes with an older car that is out of warranty and something just 'randomly' fails. With a BMW or an Audi you can probably buy the required part from ECP or GSF, or a host of other specialists, and be back on the road quite cheaply. With the Japanese brands, although they are extremely reliable, you are more tied to the dealer and the parts costs are correspondingly higher. Its not something to lose sleep over, but you need to factor it in if owning an older Japanese car.
I think the relatively higher residual values of older German cars must in part be down to the big secondary supply chain for parts, which makes running an older German car more viable than running an older Japanese car, especially one which is a bit rare.
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Neil, what thoughts on the diesel? Was your B easy to sell?
I find the sat nav very good but I've only used in in the UK. It is expensive though but I like the big screen and the choice of routes when it first calculates. Standard in the Spec B of course but like you, I wouldn't pay extra for it.
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I've booked a test drive for Monday. The car has 36k miles. Are there any 'characteristics' of the engine or transmission that I need to be aware of (eg, sharp clutch, clutch judder, flat spots in the rev range, sudden power surges etc etc). I don't want to be at the mercy of a salesman doing the 'they all do that sir' line.
Thanks!
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Nick, the SpecB was not particularly easy to sell and the first offer made me gulp quite hard but I touted it around and ended up wigh a half decent deal on an imported diesel. Have to say I was given a monster ignoring by the few main dealers so I was quite pleased not to give them my new business. This was back in early April so although I took quite a big hit on it, if I had kept it until my diesel arrived it would have been far worse.
I like the diesel a lot - quite different to the SpecB ? still looks sporty enough on 17? alloys and with the JDM bonnet scoop. Quite different to all the other diesels I've run. A little bit of clatter from cold which soon disappears and it becomes eerily quiet (for a diesel) until you rev it hard then you get a nice throaty exhaust note that?s very unlike a diesel. Smooth, punchy engine that revs very freely even though it's new. On my favourite B roads although it?s nowhere near as accelerative, once rolling I don't think it's far off the SpecB point to point pace - the gear ratios keep the torque on stream very nicely but it does lean in a bit whereas as you know, the SpecB remains muscularly flat! Much quieter drive and a supple ride so for long distances it's going to suit me better. Economy is good if not brilliant. I?ve averaged 41mpg over the first 1,500 miles but I don?t hang about and haven?t especially molly coddled it during running in. If I get 40mpg from it driving it "my way" I'll be well happy. The SpecB would have been 22mpg or less over similar driving and speeds. Just for comparrioson purposes, mpgs from diesels I have owned are Picasso HDi 40mpg, Passat 115bhp PD 45mpg, Fabia vRS 42/43 mpg and none of them anywhere near as smooth or refined.
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Pete, the clutch should be light and smooth. When you accelerate you'll feel a definite surge at around 3000 rpm and again at around 4000 rpm as the variable valve timing kicks in, but it'll pull smoothly from low revs. It'll keep going all the way to 7000 rpm when the rev limiter kicks in. I usually keep the revs around 2000 or above in normal driving. It'll happily pull 6th gear at this engine speed. So for fast overtaking, drop however many cogs you need to get over 3500 rpm and floor it! Wonderful noise but not too loud and a real kick in the backside from the acceleration. I've never driven the estate but I believe it's mechanically the same as the saloon apart from perhaps rear suspension settings.
If you can't get comfortable in it, you must be an odd shape! The seats electrically adjust every which way and the steering column adjusts too. The climate control is good, just set to 'Auto', select the temperature and forget it. Nice to have a 6 CD changer in the dash, though odd to still have a cassette player in a car this age.
I hope you enjoy it. Subarus are cars that grow on you, the longer you own one the more you appreciate them so don't worry about the novelty wearing off. They are well thought out, some nice touches like a gearbox dipstick accessable from under the bonnet. A couple of the bulbs are awkward to change apparently, though I've not had to do it.
Is the car from a main dealer?
Neil, the diesel sounds good. I'm not a great fan of diesels, mainly due to the noise and I like revs but I'll have to see if I can have a go in one to see what it's like. I'm in no danger of getting one though, I don't do many miles so the Spec B will stay for a while yet, unless I succumb to a 911 993. Good luck with yours, it'll be interesting to see what the reliability is like with it being a new engine. Perhaps you can keep us updated?
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Nick, thanks again for the pointers. Yes, the car is from a Subaru main dealer, and I understand that there will be a 12 month Subaru warranty. I'll see how the test drive goes.
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Looks like I'm late to this but, in case you stumble on it...
I have run a spec 3.0 B tourer from new and I'm still trying to find fault really, and no this isn't because I secretly wish i'd come over all conventional and bought an A4 or 3 series and I'm trying to make myself feel better, it's because all considered, these are fine cars... and while there are niggles, they amount to little. If it matters and it does, neither offering from BM or Audi could offer the pace or handling... oh yes they could if you added at least 10K new and each Audi I've driven has felt leaden.
Some myth busting and opinions from someone who has lived with a spec B for 30,000 miles from new.
Faults:
Petrol:
They drink petrol. Yes, but if you buy one and expect it to provide wallet-friendly results, and 6.5 secs to 60 then get real. Who bought a Subaru for economy. That said, I expected reasonable results and I think that 29mpg daily and 34mpg+ on long motorway hauls (real, not theory, M1 junc 1 to Worksop, J 30 and chilled driving) is ok, it is a 3.0L estate. Unhappy, buy a Prius and why not order your bus pass while you're at it?
Urm.
The light over the front seat passenger and driver cannot be triggered by the drivers door. You get used to it. The 30 second window for the driver to start the car before the the immobiliser forces you to lock and unlock again is just silly, but you get used to it. The 'MP3 connectivity' is a lie, a dealer told me today that you need to buy a lead (he quoted £100+) to get it working; means that this is a fib... the potential is there but you have to pay... cheeky.
10,000 mile services come around quicker than expected and I think servicing is on the expensive side. £380 for a 30k miles.
Sat nav
On the whole great - even in France, I find it annoying that I cannot save a 'favourite' as "Mark's house" - but have to save it as the address - this is counter-intuitive, and I have heard upgrades are £250+, much more than a new Tom Tom, on the whole tho' its ok as it is and has helped far more than hindered... I rate it. It gets it's knickers in a twist around Maidstone and the Blackwall tunnel.... but if you live in Lille you'll be ok.
Tyres
Watch these like a hawk. The standard Bridestone Potenzas I now realise are just superb, in all weather, and lasted 23k miles, the Toyo Proxes I replaced them with have soft sidewalls and understeer - do not make my mistake, the Bridestones are all weather tyres with serious grip and poise. Toyos are pants.
Si Drive.
Clever? saves petrol? gimmick? well sorry Subaru, the truth is this was surely invented by the marketing department rather than the engineers, yes it does give you 1.2223 mpg more over 10,000 miles, but you may as well be towing an aircraft carrier in terms of take-off to get that handsome return.... use only on motorways.... blip the button just before an overtaking manouevre and forget where you were, means you you blip the power down... did the Subaru marketeer say it never happens, yes it does and it loses valuable seconds... put this device down to gimmick/panic measure to kneel at the alter of green creds, it is basically pointless and I would argue occasionally dangerous. Yes, yes, it's the drivers responsibility of course, but we are all human and occasionally have the wrong setting in place when we pull out, the point is finding your 3.0 acting like a 2.0 in oncoming traffic is sobering....
In short. M25 set to 'I' and get 29mpg. Wales, set to 'S sharp' and get speed, a soundtrack and 27 mpg.
... and in two years that's all I can moan about, I guess its better than just about any other car you can think of then.
I think the only way to look at these cars is this, you know that it's quick ( quicker than a 3 series 330d, Alfa 159 V6 and matches (stodge, antique table in the back and Labradors aside) a V70R... quicker and more secure than just about all in poor weather... it's balanced, grips and handles like a car half it's size, is clever ( the boxer is lighter and lower in terms of centre of gravity and generates less vibrations than other equiv petrols and remember the 'B' means 'Bilstein') and very well equipped. They don't break, or break down. Your neighbour doesn't have one, and they don't even understand why you do, (mine does, he's a traffic policeman).
Buy, Drive and enjoy.
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>>The 30 second window for the driver to start the car before the the immobiliser forces >>you to lock and unlock again is just silly but you get used to it.
If the immobiliser has kicked in, just turn the ignition on and press the button on the key fob. Works on my 05 2.5 tourer.
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Thanks, I've give that a whirl - hadn't thought about that.
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I cannot comment on a petrol Spec B only on a Legacy Diesel Tourer.
Had it twelve months and 41000 hard miles later i can truthfully say there has not been one issue/problem/something broken etc.
In fact the car and particulary the motor drives better now with the mileage.
Just routine servicing by the supplying dealer who are excellent and enthusiasts themselves.
I also find their charges fair.
I do treat the car to an intermediate oil/filter change at 6000 miles. Call me old fashioned but i feel 12000 mile changes are too long. Also as i intend to keep the car till its death these changes can only be beneficial.
Anyone considering the diesel version should try a well used example. As with most engines the true performance is difficult to judge when its new and tight.
I was a bit disappointed with mine initially as it felt flat and lifeless but that soon changed as the miles increased and it was given some stick.
The diesel is long legged gearing wise and until used to it can give the impression of being a bit lifeless. Its a very torquey unit as the figures prove but the best analogy i can give is if you need to make progress it needs driving like a petrol in some ways.
The delivery of grunt is linear and unlike previous diesels i have owned the engine will spin round to the limiter progressively without any loss rater than delivery in a narrow band.
Long live Subaru. Maybe to some an acquired taste but once acquired well...............
PS. In an ideal world i would also buy a Spec B Tourer as a toy alongside the diesel.
Then again the prices i have seen recently make that a possibility. Ummm food for thought.
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I was looking a the diesel in a dealer yesterday, I admit the economy does appeal, I think the diesel widens the appeal of an already great car... I have to admit that Kent to the Lake District for my 10th wedding anniversary left me with a steep petrol bill... I just roughly halved it when mentioning it to my wife. Reagrds.
I cannot comment on a petrol Spec B only on a Legacy Diesel Tourer....
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"Sat nav
On the whole great - even in France, I find it annoying that I cannot save a 'favourite' as "Mark's house" - but have to save it as the address.."
Wrong! It can be saved as a number - so Home is Home and 1 is Office (it says Office on the screen). That said it works very very well.
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you mean the numbers along the bottom of the sat nav screen? - I've got a couple set up for work and home, ie the really regular journeys...
I was meaning that there is a function (cannot recall the menu entry) where you can save an address for eg: 22 Acacia Avenue, but you can't (I don't think) call it 'Mark's house' - when going back to this two weeks later I get a list of addresses, it would be so much more useful if I had a list saying 'swimming pool', 'so and so flat', 'mum and dads' etc... don;t get me wrong, i'm nitpicking as on the whole the sat nav has done really well and saved me loads of dangerous map-reading while driving bad habits...
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Ah - yes I see what you mean.
I can't say I miss that feature, but then I have never used a TomTom or similar so don't know if they have it. I do like the big screen and voice through the speakers. Not sure the voice from a TomTom would be loud enough over the radio for me. However I wish you could display the GPS calcualted speed at the same time. Its one of my few very minor complaints about the car.
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"Jane" the default british female on TomTom has a very sexy voice. I was ferrying an Italian friend around this week and he kept switching her on even when we didn't need her.
Eeza beautiful sound.....
sad but true........
;-)
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It is possible to do this. I've got some customer sites and other places I visit regularly set up by name.
Here's how to do it.
Select Menu > Stored Locations > Memory Points > Add. This takes you to the main navigation menu. If you want to store an address you've been to before go to Previous Destination, select the one you want and then OK when it shows you the map. Now go back to Memory Points > List. Select the memory point you have added and it will show you the details. Select Name and you get a keypad where you can enter your name for that point.
(Another happy diesel owner here)
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Just to add that my average over 22,000 miles in two and half years is 20.4mpg. This is mostly suburban driving around Manchester. However I have recently done two longer trips. Manchester to Alloa via Paisley and Stirling. 520 miles I think in one day, three up and about 28mpg with an average speed of (cough) just about 70mph.
Last week I did 265 miles of half country road driving and half motorway. Same 28mpg but a lot slower average speed and I was not going so quickly on the motorways. The best thing about my car is the way it gathers its skirts and powers forward when it reaches 3,500rpm. I just love dropping the tiptronic into sport and feeling the surge.
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That's scary economy, either you have a leak or I drive like my mum, must be the latter.
Mine never drops below 29.7mpg in daily grind use... actually it always says that regardless unless I decide I'm in the mood to boot it and even then I've never seen lower than 27.5mpg. It climbs back to 29.7 again within 30mins of 'cooling off' generally. Blimey I must be dull driver, I'd better put my foot down a bit!
Bit I like the most is the Q car bit, plenty of other drivers view you with curiosity and that uncertain look which I generally take as 'it says Subaru so it's likely to be quick, but not sure how quick'.
Keep 'em guessing or just looking at your swiftly accelerating back end... now I've come over all childish, but I suppose that spirit is why you buy a car like this, I admit to having something of an addiction to exciting mini-roundabouts with perhaps a little more attitude than I should... only when I've checked for kids, old ladies and doves of course... sensible hooliganism if that isn't a double negative.
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Remember that I am driving an Outback 3.0Rn Tiptronic, so I have a car with worse aerodynamics with an autobox and in the 'burbs. I have never ever done better than 25mpg in any petrol automatic I have driven for the last 12 years. Its simply my style of driving on the roads I need to drive along. Yes, I have got over 50mpg from a Citroen C1, and loved every minute of that great little car, but when I occasionally get on the open road, nothing beats my Subaru.
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Gibson 10
Great review of the Spec B. I have always owned subaru's and so have my parents. I went from a 2.0 Legacy to a 2.5 Outback and after reading your review and a little research I have just bought a Spec B 3.0 (2007).
I love it, but for some reason I'm only getting 24mpg.. Do I need to reset the computer in it? It's an Auto, I have tried is on S, S# and also SI. I notice the performance difference between them but the MPG saeems to be the same? perhaps it's because i'm driving around London with it and not the motorway?
Also, you mention the MP3 lead, does this mean I could get it working with my Ipod?
Thanks, Chris
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Gibson 10,
Second attempt at a post!
After reading your post and doing some research I bought a Subaru Spec B 3.0 (2007). I love it. It's an Auto, very smooth but for some reason I only seem to be getting low 20's MPG? Do I need to reset the computer or something or is it just because I'm driving it around London that it's so low?
Cheers,
Chris
{Mega snipquote - the pop up message asking you to quote ONLY the relevant text of the person you're replying to, means just that, not to quote the whole bleeding lot!!!!}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 12/10/2009 at 20:29
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I suspect because you are driving around London. Although 20 mpg sounds quite good for town driving!
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But you didn't buy the Subaru for mpg figures you bought a car to enjoy and in London town driving this may be difficult best time to travel 03.45hrs with verve and japanese plates.
Spec B consumption =
Urban Fuel
20.5 mpg
Extra Urban
38.2 mpg
Combined
28.8 mpg
so add 10% to the combined and you'll obtain that type of mpg with average driving.
Footnote
Have you checked the air filter, worth replacing every 18months or 25k. Do NOT use any filter that requires oil stick to OEM or look at the Cosworth filters.
My 57 plate outback 2.5l petrol now returns 34mpg.
Happy Motoring
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