My wife has decided that she wants to change her large 7 seater for something much smaller. Having looked at lots of models, the choice was boiled down to the following brand new cars - Toyota Aygo, Toyota Yaris or Mazda 2.
There were problems with the Toyotas; the Aygo has only four seatbelts (if it had five there would be one on our drive already) and the Yaris has a digital speedo which she hates and also no rear electric windows. She wants electric rear windows because she can turn them off so the children don't play with them. Manual windows will cause havoc with one of our children. The Mazda seemed to be very good, but she has decided that she doesn't want one, even though the top of the range ticks all the boxes.
I had a brainwave... Mercedes A-Class. Brand new the Elegance SE is about £16,000 as opposed to £12,000 for the Mazda, but I can find examples which are about 6 months ld with 5,000 miles on for under £11,000. The car is also slightly shorter but much more roomy than the Mazda and has a lot of hidden safety kit and other features that the Mazda doesn't have.
So, is it a sensible idea? Surely it will have lost most of its depreciation, whereas a Mazda will lose a fair bit in its first year. What do you think?
|
You are comparing apples and pears - new v used.
3,000 mile Mazda 2 1.3 5 door is £7795 at our local dealer
8,000 mile 1.5 Sport is £10k
New A class is supposed to be a vast improvement on the first one, but do you have a good independent dealer around? It may be a cheap Merc when compared to the new Mazda price, but servicing will still be at least £100 +Vat an hour.
|
Don't do it!
As previously mentioned (sorry), my best friend is a buyer for a Mercedes main dealer.
He said when I was thinking of changing cars, not to buy ANY car for the next six months as there are some big falls on the way.
As an aside, he just bought a 24K miles example of a 1 year old Merc for £38K. New price - and the owner paid list - £75K. He said that if he was offered it a week later he would have knocked of another £1500.
Also, the car came from a group who have a number of Mercedes dealerships as a part ex to a none Merc franchise within the group, but none of them had the means to be able to make a bid and keep it in house.
|
There is a Merc specialist nearby with a good reputation, so I can avoid the main dealer charges if necessary, but the car is run through my business so these marginal costs are just that - marginal compared to my other costs such as staffing, rent and insurance which total £80,000 before I open for work each year. Spending £150 or £300 for a service is frankly totally irrelevant.
I suppose my main concern is not the price but whether for about the same money, say £11,000, I am better to buy a brand new Mazda 2 or a 6 month old Merc A150.
I am aware of the imminently falling values (I am a Chartered Surveyor doing commercial bank valuations so I know all about falling values at the moment!), but we will almost certainly need to buy a new car in the next couple of months. There seem to be a large number of A-classes in Merc dealers at the present - so I think I should be able to get a car marked up at £11,000 for £10,000?
|
You've not responded to the suggestion you compare the purchase price of a used Mazda2 to a used MB A-Class. That would be fairer. I'd have thought the Mazda2 might be better built and more reliable based on MB's reputation of late.
EDIT: So is this a company funded car though.... going brand new might make more sense?
Edited by rtj70 on 07/07/2008 at 23:11
|
|
|
the car is run through my business so these marginal costs are just that
Careful now, you don't want to give away too much info along those lines - as there is some anti-business sentiment displayed mixed with politics of envy displayed on this forum at times. ;-)
There seem to be a large number of A-classes in Merc dealers at the present - so I think I should be able to get a car marked up at £11,000 for £10,000?
Go for it. You are on the right track. No harm in testing their resolve. I should think that the Merc will create a better impression for your business than a Mazda.
Edited by jbif on 07/07/2008 at 23:24
|
|
|
|
|
Autobild in Germany ran an article on 12th June stating rust was back in the A and B class cars affecting upto 445,000 worldwide. This included the W169 line.
The problem is with the flexi-seal on the doors and bonnets being applies before the lacquer finish. Humidity gets in under the seal and the rusting process starts.
Go to autobild's website and type mercedes korrosion in the search field.
|
|
gmac... that sounds like my previous car - a Mondeo MKIII.
|
|
Wasn't the passenger door seal at the bottom of the window was it rtj70 ?
|
|
|
|
We can opine all we like about finance and value retention, but what it will come down to is whether, after test drives, Mrs Espada (Espadrille?) likes either of them to drive, and whether the little Lambos will fit comfortably in the back.
Mazda - smaller and likely to be more fun to drive
A-class - more room in the back, higher driving position but probably not very lively, especially with the smallest engine.
Presumably she's considered and discounted the Jazz? Not sure if the upmarket version has electric windows - I can quite understand that that's a more important consideration than it sounds.
|
I always think Avant talks (writes?) sense.
Yes we have looked at the Jazz, but Espadrille won't have one, besides a new model is out soon, but not soon enough I think. She has driven both the Mazda2 and A-Class. Yes the A is slower and not as sporty, but it is perfectly adequate she says (I will drive one tomorrow). The little ones will be fine if I am fine in the back as I am relatively short (only 5'7").
I am glad someone thinks that electric rear windows are "a more important consideration than it sounds". When you have one very sensitive child who feels extremes of temperature (without it actually being the case), giving them the option of opening windows willy nilly causes problems.
|
|
BTW - the cheapest second hand, new model Mazda2 Sport currently available is £9,500, although most are over £10,000, so an A-class looks good value.
|
I guess an A class looks good value until you take it in for repairs/service. ISTR engine out at a cost of £4K to replace diesel glow plugs!
|
|
A 6-month old A-class will surely be preferable to any new car in the Mazda 2 category? And as for the kids playing with the rear windows, whatever happened to 'Do as Mum/Dad tell you!'?
|
And as for the kids playing with the rear windows, whatever happened to 'Do as Mum/Dad tell you!'? ....
My two younger children, although one is perhaps too young, but certainly the eight year old do do as they are told. My ten year old has certain behavioural and social situation problems which mean that he doesn't always do as he is told and "discipline" is not the answer as when he is acting 'normally' his discipline is perfect.
|
Sorry, it was a bit tongue-in-cheek.
Our family car has elec windows AND elec rear doors (Citroen C8) - the kids (7, 6 and 4) have a field day as they can operate the door buttons with their feet when strapped into their seats. Luckily there is an isolation switch on the drivers door to stop them when they don't "Do as Mum/Dad tell them"
|
|
|
|
I guess an A class looks good value until you take it in for repairs/service. ISTR engine out at a cost of £4K to replace diesel glow plugs!
It is engine out for water pump, but I don't think for glow plugs.
|
|
|
|
Before commending the Mazda, look back to Espada's original post: "The Mazda seemed to be very good, but she has decided that she doesn't want one" (my emphasis).
Therefore, it doesn't matter how many Mazdas you can buy for the price of an A Class: if Espadarille doesn't want one, she doesn't want one.
IIRC, Espada buys new or nearly-new changes his cars frequently. The question then becomes how well is a 6-month old A Class likely to hold its value at 2-3 years old? May I suggest that for practicality and retained value, the better comparision is with other small MPVs such as the Scenic, Verso etc?
|
Yes, but the Scenic/Verso are much much larger vehicles, whereas the A-class is actually 5cm shorter than a Mazda2.
Comparison with a Modus/Note would be more reasonable and I for one really like the Note, but again Espadrille won't look at one.
|
|
Customers of mine, who work for merc, lease theirs for 9 month periods. One has an A-Class which she reckons is great but doesnt rate the small petrol, much prefers the diesel, always with the autobox and leather. Cleaning it does make me rather want one, even if there are some flimsey plastics in places inside.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Go for the A-class, Espada: Espadrille has probably set her heart on it by now. If you need to justify it to yourself, you canm always reflect that:
- the kids will love the high seating position (actually so may you - it was one good thing about my former B-class)
- if they're into street cred, 'Mum's taxi is a Merc' will keep them happy
- they're going to grow, and there's plenty of room in the back of an A-class for expanding adolescents
- you have the satisfaction of someone else bearing quite a lot of depreciation (best to see if you can avoid one that someone's eold after 6 months because they didn't like it).
Good luck!
|
I should add - if she does enough mileage to justify the diesel, make sure you can all put up with the noise (it rivals the old Perkins Prima in the Maestro), and the boneshaking 700 rpm idling speed, which can't be adjusted.
Thanks for the compliment!
Edited by Avant on 09/07/2008 at 00:35
|
|
It may have already been considered and discounted but the car that came to mind whilst reading through this thread is the Daihatsu Sirion. Comes loaded with kit as standard, including rear electric windows as well as parking sensors. There was a thread a few weeks ago covering the car.
|
Sirion checked but Espadrille says no. Mileage will be less than 8,000 miles pa so diesel is pointless.
Thanks anyway.
Am test driving this morning myself, so will see... Tempted to take company cheque book with me and offer £9,500..
|
OK - had test drive and have bought car.
It drove much better than I expected. Engine was quieter and smoother, steering was adequately positive, the ride not too hard and handling around a roundabout was significantly better - quite flat in fact.
Lots of nice features, comfortable seats and plenty of room in the rear for the three kids.
Checked it against various other examples around the country it is was a lot cheaper than all the others so bought it.
|
|
I know this is a car you've considered before and I hope you get a lot of pleasure from it. Are you going to give us a few more details?
|
OK - the A150 arrived today.
The buying experience was interesting. The salesman was a very nice man in his late 20s or early 30s who had technical knowledge coming out of his ears and was very straightforward. The sales manager to whom he had to refer the deal to complete it was a total plonker who should have been wearing white towelling socks - and this at a Mercedes garage. If I had not done my homework before and knew how few cars of this precise spec there were in the country (three to be precise), I would have walked out. He tuned me off before he spoke to me, because of his greasy smile - Ughh!
The car was ordered and paid for on Wednesday with a cheque! The cheque cleared today and the car was delivered this afternoon to Espadrille with a tank of fuel and a smile. Car was already very well presented, but had been totally cleaned and topped and tailed. The first service is due in September for £160.
Its a silver Elegance with black trim. Usual bells and whistles inc folding mirrors. Espadrille is very happy and therefore so am I.
Any questions?
|
|
Sounds great, very pleased for you. Are you going to relate your experience to the garage?
|
I think there is some feedback form which we fill in to get a free valet or something. Espadrille got the details when the car was delivered - I was on fatherly duty - so there will be both barrels pointing at the sales manager and hopefully promotion for the salesman.
He was a BMW technician for ten years. Very impressive knowledge. We were at our house when Espadrille drove up in the borrowed C1. He said "Has that got 3 cylinders? - I can hear the crankshaft bending at the high revs" !!!
|
"I suppose my main concern is not the price but whether for about the same money, say £11,000"
Delighted you've made the decision but what is money if not about the price? I think you must have meant, how can I justify buying the one I like the look of!
|
|
I'm with Espadrille on this one. Different things tick different boxes for women. As Janice Joplin sang back in the sixties "Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz?"
Locking rear electric windows save no end of grief and worry if you've got small children. Also the seats that have pop-up booster seats are really cool. And it's important to look good on the school run. When you've just spent half an hour putting your face on, you want people to look at you.
I just took the plunge and bought one yesterday, a 2001 A170, as a second car for school runs etc. We had some reservations after reading Honest John's advice not to buy this model because of the reliability issues, but other car guide websites weren't so critical. Maybe against my better judgement, I took a gamble that this won't turn out to be one of those cars that suddenly needs to have a couple of grand spent on it because some piece of plastic fell into the engine or whatever.
Servicing costs are a worry, does anyone know of any good independents in Gloucestershire?
|
"Oh Lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz?"
I don't think Janis Joplin would have gone for an A Class though even if they had existed back then. It is a grotesque-looking jalopy by sixties standards, and quite honestly I don't think that sort of car would find much favour in Galveston, Texas, her home town, today either.
|
|
My wife had an A170,........ for six months. 'Nuff said ?
|
|
The first service is due in September for £160.
IIRC, Mercedes normally service the cars before sale (or do the next service free) if there's less then 3mths/3000 miles to go.
Edited by Bill Payer on 19/07/2008 at 18:18
|
|
I think you'll find that Janis Joplin's home town was Port Arthur.
|
|
|
|
