Is it just me or are roundabouts turning into nothing but mad, accident waiting to happen, free for all junctions.
I seem to remember that you continued onwards only when there was a suitable gap in the traffic coming from your right.
One of the major ones that I use every day has changed these rules and you now have to unofficially stop half way round to avoid hitting the cars and lorries who pull out when they feel like it.
Is it more powerful engines that are to blame? Do people think they can get through a smaller gap in the traffic or are people travelling around them at too high a speed.
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I think the whole ethos of driving has been changed by the current government, and not for the better.
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I don't know about redundant, but I do think that roundabouts are used too much in traffic flow design in this country. I moved here from the US about 5 years ago and still can't believe how much they are used, particularly around motorway access. That said, driver behaviour concerning roundabouts is much better here than in the USA, people generally follow the rules of driving here much better than in America.
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I can't know, of course, the exact circumstances you describe - or how 'close' things are in reality, but drivers 'nipping-in' quickly on roundabouts has never bothered me. I expect to adjust speed a bit on roundabouts - even if I have priority from the right. The other aspect you suggest is the generally higher speeds/greater acceleration of vehicles these days. You can have an empty roundabout & join, then immediately see a right approaching vehicle that has zoomed out from the previous entry point.
In the interests of traffic flow, perhaps we should expect a bit more nipping-in - gone now are the days when we could majestically sail around a roundabout unimpeded, in my view.
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What annoys me is the white painted roundabouts they paint on the road situated in the wrong position which result in drivers turning right effectively going around the roundabout the wrong way (usually without indication) I often have to take avoidance measures not to crash into them.
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Got cut up twice on the 2 roundabouts on a 5 minute journey last night. Got a load of abuse from a woman in an old BMW who was turning right, as I approached from her right going straight over the roundabout.
Goodness knows what she was thinking. I approached the roundabout slowly as know visibility to my right was poor, when I saw it was clear I went only to have this car zoom across my bow, with the driving shouting and gesticulating wildly. My wife accused me of driving at the woman, until I pointed out if I had it was so close we would have had a big collision, and that I had been on 1/4 throttle at most, and had to back off as soon as I realised this idiot was not stopping.
5 minutes later, at the roundabout near our house, I had stopped for traffic coming from the right, pulled away when clear only to have an Audi A4 on my left start pulling over. Gave him a little beep as I know his visibility is severely restricted by a tall hedge, but I always indicate on this roundabout at an early stage and approach with care as it is a nightmare. Despite all the signs, think people are not aware it is a roundabout as it made up of brick paving, at the same level as nearby properties mean it has not been widened (ie looks like a standard crossroads as road width is constant).
Edited by Webmaster on 11/06/2008 at 00:10
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Roundabouts are one of the best ideas to have come from Britain and exported quite successfully to dozens more countries. Driving in Spain I am infuriated by the lack of roundabouts at places where a chance to turn round again is sorely needed, especially on motorways, where a missed junction can lead to a 40 kms round trip (and an even higher toll charge!)
There are areas of rural France and Spain where priority is still given to traffic entering the roundabout, which is great if you want to leave at the first exit, but otherwise a pain.
Small roundabouts and truly huge ones (Place Charles de Gaulle in Paris, the Magic Roundabout in Swindon) work well as everyone is vigilant the whole time, but my experience of "medium sized" ones - those with three lanes going round and where "proper" signalling means indicating on for more than ten seconds - is that they cause a lot of aggravation. It's not permissible to overtake on a roundabout - or is it? What about undertaking? Faster vehicle wins generally... The "solution" of placing traffic lights seems to defeat the object of having a roundabout in the first place.
Time to think of an alternative then: Square roundabouts? Triangular ones?? Three dimensional roundabouts, anyone???
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are you sure it is a British invention? Think that it might be a French one.
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I could count the number of proper roundabouts on one hand that I have seen in Germany.
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I personally think that some roundabouts are by far the most sensible thing to have. However, I would agree that there are far too many that have been poorly designed. I think that there was one in Ipswich that was notoriously bad that had been designed by someone who didn't drive. Then there are the likes of Swindon's "Magic Roundabout". And why festoon r'bouts with traffic lights? And mini-r'bouts (especially when they have another on the side) that any large vehicle can't help but drive over the top.
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All good points rogue-trooper. Roundabouts, properly designed, are a very good way of managing big junctions with minimal effect on traffic flow. But they can be messed up in all the ways you mention, as well as something you may not have come across - it is so stupid and perverse that I can't imagine it is often found outside Surrey -: the deliberate masking of views with matchboard fencing, making it impossible for drivers to match speed through the roundabout so as to miss one another, and forcing everyone to slow to a crawl. This hampers traffic flow and causes wasted fuel and extra noise and pollution, as well as being intrinsically dangerous.
I can't think why militant motorists haven't torched the damn things.
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Oh yes Lud. Forgot about those. The first one I ever came across was on the A9 just north of Glasgow and it really annoyed me. Now you find them everywhere and not just in Surrey.
Junction 5 of the M3 has a boring one (perhaps that is Surrey) that annoys me. The A31 in Hants/Dorset has plenty and they also annoy me. Actually, as a grumpy old man, all of these "matchboard fences" annoy me, and I can only presume they are there to stop people shooting the r'bout. If they want to stop traffic then why not put lights up.
Whilst I am grumping, how about off peak traffic lights on r'bouts that seem to stay on all day. Maybe they started being off-peak only, but now are permanent. The ones on the A483/A55 just south of Chester are a case in point.
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As well as these fences, the other trick is not to cut the grass so that it obscures the view.
The roundabouts I hate are the ones with traffic lights. I've whinged before about the one at the end of the Durham road just outside Sunderland city centre. The circumference of this roundabout is too tight for the number of sets of lights so you can never get into the correct lane between the lights. Its sole purpose is to aid the buses getting in and out of the city and has no purpose in easing traffic flow and definitely does not enhance safety.
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No, surely you're thinking of The Magic Roundabout.
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Now you've put a horrible little jingle in my head for the rest of the day dc, thanks a lot for underlining my advancing dementia.
I'll have to listen to the doleful acidhead electronic dubs that just came in from Japan on Skype. That may help.
:o]
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which one? Where they sat around and ate magic mushrooms or that wonderful ebgineering feat in Swindon?
Actually think both were French
As for Swindon, I love this diagram showing "tourist path" and "pro driver path"
www.roundabout.net/DIBcounterflow.html
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are you sure it is a British invention? Think that it might be a French one.
Somewhat shockingly the Magic Roundabout is French - Le Manege Enchante - and according to Wikipedia, so is the traffic roundabout.
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>>Is it just me or are roundabouts turning into nothing but mad, accident waiting to happen, free for all junctions.?
>>
You should try my local entertainment centre - The Scilly Isles Roundabout near Sandown Race Course Esher, Surrey.
It is a roundabout with an extra solid island on the side of it.
See page 8 of this PDF. tinyurl.com/6mv9sk
When entering it from the East and wanting SW, there are three lanes of traffic from your right ( North).
The big problem is anyone of them is likely to try and straight line it and cross your bows at speed to exit SE.
Having crossed that flow into the main roundabout ( avoiding two lanes on your left trying to sprint into the action) then there may be two lanes of traffic coming at you from the right. ( the guy in front may have snuck in and is in fact going right and may not move when expected) all this keeps one awake!
I do not recall any reported accidents there which is very surprising.
As you can imagine, the alternative spelling for the roundabout seems more appropriate. :-)
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I've been driving for nearly 36 years and I haven't noticed either any general deterioration or improvement in driving standards over that time. I think HGV driving standards have improved though.
Hyde Park Corner was always a free-for-all, as if you stopped you'd never get going again. It's just that there are more and more roundabouts that busy now. Thankfully I don't encounter any in my normal local driving.
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I think HGV driving standards have improved
>
SS where do you travel, this phenomenon you speak of has me baffled, i keep thinking the standard of driving can't get any worse, then another unbelievable occurence and sure enough another rung down the interminable ladder.
They're slower, true and the emission controls and awful modern gearboxes make getting the heaps moving a dangerously slow process, but safer, no can't say i've noticed.
Roundabouts are a good idea, without traffic lights, and help generally, until some twit decides to plant a forest in the middle or landscape them 15 ft high, making it impossible to see round and make continuous safe progress, and those idiotic fences to prevent you seeing the state of the roundabout before you get there are spreading out, seen on A45 and Telford, and loads more i can't recall.
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I rather enjoyed Hyde Park Corner before they put the lights up. Always tested your metal.
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The problem I notice more often, on big roundabouts, is traffic on the roundabout going so fast that it's not possible to enter the circle without risk of obstructing one that wasn't visible when you set off. Typical example of driving with no empathy at all, and I feel no guilt when I unintentionally get in the way of these loons.
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One of my pet hates is the way lanes are marked and labelled on a large roundabout. On several if you stick to the correct lane you end up still on the inside of the roundabout when you need to take the next exit. This means that you must cross perhaps two other lanes to reach the exit, which seems to be dangerous.
On some islands the lanes "unwrap" logically to put you in the correct lane for your exit.
For an example just try J2 m5 ( Oldbury ) in the midlands. I defy you to read the lane markings and stay in the "correct" lane whilst everbody else trys to beat you to getting off!
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Even when the painted lanes make some sort of sense to you, there's no guarantee the bloke driving round beside you even knows what they are supposed to mean. It's a good idea to open up, stand a bit of sideways G and make sure no one is in a position to do anything moronic when you want to do something moronic like turning off the roundabout yourself. Roundabouts are designed for rational people who know how to drive cars, not the carp we have all over the roads today. So you have to be a bit wary.
That said, even quite small tight 2-lane roundabouts are great places for nipping past a couple of mimsers.
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That said even quite small tight 2-lane roundabouts are great places for nipping past a couple of mimsers.
Ah but the chances are that you will get run off the road when they cut across your bows. Why people don't look in their mirrors more often is amazing and r'bouts are undoubtedly the place where other people's cars come closest to hitting me. Even with defensive driving you are still in danger.
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>Is it just me or are roundabouts turning into nothing but mad, accident waiting to happen, free for all junctions.
I think it's simply that many drivers in other parts of the UK have also adopted the changes described in the Basingstoke Ammendment to The Highway Code.
Your confusion is perfectly understandable if you are not used to these new manoeuvres and hand-signals.
Kevin...
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