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Since the middle 1960s all my cars (petrol, naturally!) have averaged middle to high 30s mpg. However, they've all had increasingly higher acceleration and top speed. I just hope the trend continues.
Edited by L'escargot on 25/05/2008 at 18:30
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I have just acquired a honda cdti executive 2005 model, my first diesel, the engine noise when idle is exactly like a tractor making my wife's vauxhall astra 1996 model engine much more likeable because of its quietness. In fact, I got so worried about the sound that I took the honda to a franchised dealer who assured me nothing was wrong that i would soon get used to the sound of diesel engines. It is such a blemish for such a beautiful car . However the fuel economy is wonderful on long haul journeys.
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I don't understand how anyone can bear to drive a petrol car when you have to rag the guts out of them to do anything other than pootle along. In a diesel, you can floor it in any gear and just get a huge surge of power, whereas in a petrol they do go like stink but only once you're past about 5000RPM.
I'm getting tired of the pitying looks from other car drivers when I overtake them with the Honda virtually red-lining in 2nd gear to get past.
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I don't understand how anyone can bear to drive a petrol car when you have to rag the guts out of them to do anything other than pootle along.
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Depends....I'd agree smaller non turbo petrol engines don't have the guts of a modern turbo diesel, but they don't have a turbo do they. If you get a 2 litre or bigger petrol engine or one with a turbo they're fine...and if you compared a non turbo diesel with a non turbo petrol, i'd lay money on it the petrol would be the nicer to drive.
A V6 petrol is usually refined, quickish, smooth etc...so usually it's just the fuel consumption bit that's the defining criteria, particularly nowadays.
Any current diesel owner offered a petrol V6 and a fuel card paid for by someone else would be mad to keep a diesel...smelly; noisy; more recently, potentially costly problems...it's just the hole in your wallet with fuel bills that decides it.
Who would really want to have to put gloves on every time you fill up, worry about waking the neighbours on an early start, pull out of junctions waiting for the turbo to kick in, wait for ever on a cold morning waiting for the heater to work, etc..if you didn't have to.
p.s. main family car in this household is...diesel
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I don't understand how anyone can bear to drive a petrol car when you have to rag the guts out of them to do anything other than pootle along. I'm getting tired of the pitying looks from other car drivers when I overtake them with the Honda virtually red-lining in 2nd gear to get past.
Don't tar all other with Honda's manic engined brush.
I can happily drive my Alfa GTA without going above 3000rpm and still leave most other cars on the road in my wake.
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I don't understand how anyone can bear to drive a petrol car when you have to rag the guts out of them to do anything other than pootle along.
Perhaps you need to drive a good petrol car. I have no problems with my 530i. It's wonderfully smooth.
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In a diesel you can floor it in any gear and just get a huge surge of power whereas in a petrol they do go like stink but only once you're past about 5000RPM.
Rubbish. You've only got to compare acceleration times for comparable size petrol and diesel engines for almost any car model to disprove your opinion.
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I cannot believe a petrol engine is noisier than a diesel. I have owned both for many miles, and there is no discernable engine sound from my Mondy 2l at any legal speed, only tyre noise.
Wheras my previous diesel was reputed to have been bought to irritate the neighbours, and anyone else standing nearby, insde was marginally better, however.
The new technology seems fine of r some, but if you are the unlucky one, you have lost your profit. Makes more sense if you drive in France a lot, or better, someone else pays the repair bills
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Diesels suit family cars. When you're ferrying the kids about, or enduring a torturous commute, you don't want to be using the revs and working the gearbox. You want instant shove, and a relaxed gait. A nice, torquey, laid back modern common rail turbodiesel does this better than a petrol engine of equivalent capacity.
We have a petrol and diesel car of similar weights and within 100cc capacity of each other. Both engines are turbocharged, and the petrol unit makes 60 bhp more than the diesel one (and has an extra cylinder).
Nobody could deny that the Volvo 5 pot on song is a symphony orchestra in audio terms compared to the Renault's rather featureless hum (the diesel not quite saved by the amusing sighs and huffs from the wastegate when you lift off), if not most other four cylinder engines of any fuel type. The petrol engine is also smoother, more refined, and you simply can't argue with a 60bhp power advantage.
But the fact is that in normal running about in real driving conditions in the real world, the diesel wants for nothing in comparison. Between 1500 and 3000 RPM it's hardly any noisier, and has the same feeling of "in reserve muscle" on part throttle (sic) as the petrol, not to mention responding just as sharply to small accelerator pedal changes. Only when the road opens up, and you get the petrol engine over 3500 RPM does leave the diesel for dust, but then if you do this more than a handful of times on a tankful, you're rewarded with about 23 mpg. Drive it ultra gently and you'll see 34 or so, but do the same in the diesel and you'll nudge 50.
The petrol engine tugs the heart strings more than the diesel without a doubt, but family running about and commuting isn't heart string territory. If I were talking about a fun car or a toy, it would be different. I'd also suspect it would be harder to argue the case for petrol even that far if were were talking about the typical anodyne, characterless, emission strangled four pot fitted to most modern mass produced cars. The Volvo's engine is rather lovely, but even that doesn't have things all its own way compared to a similar capacity diesel, despite a significant "on paper" advantage.
Cheers
DP
Edited by DP on 25/05/2008 at 20:38
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I couldn`t go back to that slightly unsteady fumbling tickover in the first couple of seconds of starting a petrol. The last misfire I had was with the last petrol job 16 years ago.. and there were lots of misfires in the petrol years before that.
I`m sure things have improved in recent years though. Has start up flooding of the plugs now been *totally* eliminated on petrol engines? ( bad memories of an auto choke petrol automatic)
Yes, I`m surfacing from many years of totally reliable exclusive diesel driving ;)
That said, If I had real trouble on the common rail it would be back to petrol.
The Vicar of Bray (allegedly) and all that ;)
Regards
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The prices HJ is quoting are correct. Injectors for the Alfa were £250 each & have a 50/50 refurb chance, don't forget their are 5 of them. The no-VTG turbo went at 50K and was £570 for refurb, diesel pump was £690+VAT & R & R. I didn't have a MAF failure but they're around £160 etc. etc. All Bosch bits.
Comparing modern day diesels with petrol cars with carbs & manual chokes is stupid & biased or shall I start comparing modern 40MPG petrols with old non-turbo perkins powered Maestros, old pug 504D & worse the 2.1D diesel Granada?
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I?m not sure why so many on this forum feel it their continuing duty, to warn those of us who have taken the decision to ?go diesel?, of our folly. I?m still happy with my decision to make the switch. Some three years and 70k miles on, I intend keeping this vehicle (Xsara estate 2.o Hdi) for a good while yet. It returns a very respectable, consistent 50mpg. I?ve measured this several times over my ownership?proper brim to brim and several fills to reduce error. (Last time was 52mpg). None of this ?on a long run?, downhill with a tail wind??according to the trip meter? stuff people trot out whilst arguing the case that petrol is getting close. It?s a decent size estate with good load space, more than adequate punch to keep up with the cut and thrust of the daily commute and I don?t have to clog up the middle lane doing 65 trying to squeeze a decent consumption figure. For my current use it?s the right choice. If my daily commute was a few miles through town traffic and other use was limited to leisure trips and shopping? I would probably reconsider petrol. Right now I would see going back to a1.8 petrol as a retrograde step. Despite the doom merchants on this forum, I take comfort that the next time you try to out-pace me on those long motorway inclines (if you can) at least you will be stopping for juice before I have to.
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D, there's a hardcore of motorists who feel that diesel is the "fuel of satan" to quote Clarkson's rant at Lewis Hamilton when he said that he drove a diesel and are lead by several high profile "journalists" - they are convinced in their own minds that all cars should be petrol driven and diesel should only be used in tractors - you will find them on all motoring forums (well nearly all - the Briskoda site has mainly Fabia vRS owners so is virtually imune to them!) - and they will use all sorts of underhand tactics to discredit diesel power, often clutching at straws in their desperation!
They are not motoring enthusiasts, just bias narrow-minded individuals with a large chip on their shoulder...
Just ignore 'em! ;)
Edited by b308 on 26/05/2008 at 09:36
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"or shall I start comparing modern 40MPG petrols with old non-turbo perkins powered Maestros,"
You could if you wish. I had a Perkins non turbo Maestro and could get 60mpg out of it.
By the way, if your `Stupid` comment above is referring to me I resent it.. Well, as much as you can on`t internet ;) Yawn.
Regards ;);)
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. I had a Perkins non turbo Maestro and could get60mpg out of it.
So did I! And 45ish when towing! Lovely smooth engine, not very quick though, you had to be aware of the road ahead if you wanted to make quick progress!
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I did 130,000 miles in one b308. wish I could have another, new, though a time warp or something. I would want power steering next time though ;)
Regards
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I got it at 60k (ex S Wales Police Panda!!) and sold it at 96k for a Montego TD - we needed the extra space at the time - drove the Monty all the way to Plzen and back - lovely cars except for the rust and the Maestro was very basic!
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Is that the reason to buy any car - to sit in it at idle?
colinh, you missed the point ~ perhaps deliberately. I was referring to noise as heard from the outside of the car. We are regularly woken at 5 am by the noise of our neighbour's BMW 335d idling on his drive while he goes back to shut the garage door or whatever before he goes to work. Nobody has ever complained about the noise of our petrol Focus.
Edited by L'escargot on 26/05/2008 at 10:18
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What about all those "modified" petrol cars, two stroke mopeds, large motorbikes? All are as noisy - I've had direct injection diesels for years now and the neighbours have never complained, in fact we've discussed the merits of diesel and the noise factor has never come into the discussion - we have a guy who starts up his motorbike and leaves it for a few minutes to warm up every morning at 7am- you can hear it going from high revs when cold to normal when its warmed up - we just live with it, if you want a perfectly quiet home go and live in the country (but watch for the birds!).
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...and the sheep. Amazing what a racket a field full of the woolly creatures can make when you're not used to them.
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And they produce that earth warming methane as well.... ;)
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HJ says "Diesel fuel in the UK has become about 10% more expensive to buy than petrol."
I filled up at our local yesterday, and diesel was 13% more. Obviously it will vary from place to place, but the day may be near when it gets to 20%.
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>>but the day may be near when it gets to 20%.
It may well do. I would think demand for petrol is more elastic. Much is purchased by private motorists who well may cut down on their car use. Most diesel is used by lorries, trains, home heating (not quite the same, but from the same fraction of the oil as diesel) and business car users. This type is usage will continue at roughly the same level (unless there is a big recession). The relative proportions of diesel and petrol obtainable from a barrel of oil are roughly fixed so if you produce more diesel, you also have to produce more petrol.
So, supply and demand theory says diesel will have more upward price pressure on it than petrol.
Or have I missed something?
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Yep, you can "crack" other fractions of the oil into diesel, but it's a costly process and our refineries simply aren't set-up to do this in the volumes required to meet demand.
Funny really, as diesel demand as been increasingly steadily for many years all over Europe, but nothing has been spent on ensuring there is enough supply to meet demand.
Instead, we have a glut of petrol that we have to export to a grateful USA and hardly enough diesel for ourselves!
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Instead we have a glut of petrol .........
So why is the price rising?
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So why is the price rising?
Because the glut is only European, the US will still buy our petrol and the base crude oil is still going up in price. That puts a floor under the price.
However there is barely enough diesel anywhere in the world right now to meet demand, so that price increases faster than for petrol.
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