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I'll put in a bid for it at £2k..
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Blimey Stu, i can understand your reaction.
I've had one or two candid chats with dealers as i go about my work, and some are making silly offers for large trade ins, and apparently people are accepting some of these derisory offers just to get in a low tax and fuel vehicle.
SWMBO has a thought on this, as we do our duty and get rid of our larger vehicles (at huge loss, and latched ourselves up with escalating repayments for new eco car)
towing the line like the good cannon fodder we are, guess what...they'll come up with another scam and put the costs sky high on them too...only time will tell, but she's usually right. (and you've got more chance of flying to the moon than her towing the line)
Just a thought Stu, as you like the forester, and i assure you nice little car as it is, the yaris isn't in the same league, why not with the money you would have to come up with for a change of vehicle, get your present car lpg'd, subaru's seem to take to lpg very well, and if you get to corby you will find very cheap lpg opp the kia garage, probably other non main road rip offs nearer to you too.
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Not really keen on LPG myself, just a personal thing.
The Yaris is perfectly adequate actually, bit noisier but the the flat-4 is an exceptional, however the gearbox is actually smoother and its a perfectly decent car with plenty of space for a small car, we were suprised.
Im actually hoping that our local dealer calls as he said he would be delighted to take the car back when he sells something and has a spot on the forecourt.
Seems the time for large cars is ending if you value depreciation.
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Well it would have been more satisfying :-)
I was offered £5800 by a Kia dealer so Im quite sure that the £6k mark is where its at.
What made me laugh was that he told me his 'contacts' wouldnt give any more than £1k, so I told him he should get better contacts and walked out as he was really trying to push it. He absolutely refused to give me a cost to change figure, really bizarre, not to mention he was one of those exceptionally irritating people you really want to zip their mouth shut!
All good fun though!
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Out of interest Stu are you 'up' or 'down' with your car dealings this year?! It seems as if you've been through more cars this year than I've had in my whole 14 year car owning career ;-)
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Toyota dealer had the sheer cheek to claim it was only worth £1000
Ask him to supply similar car for £2000. Then buy it and sell it on market for £3000 :o)
It's a thumb rule that you won't get good offer on p/x. Selling privately is the way to go.
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I think a call to the dealer principle asking what the hell they think they're playing at is in order here. They certainly sound like charlatans who should not be holding a Toyota franchise. What a strange way of trying to sell you a car!
For the record, I have just had a look in December's Glass's Guide. Although this is nearly six months out of date, it gives a trade value of £6400 for your car with 42k on it, so to have a Kia dealer bid £5800 at it some six months on is damn good bid, as I can well imagine the Forester will have dropped alot since December, thanks to the effect of fuel and road tax increases.
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I pride myself in being very clinical when buying a car. I do all my homework beforehand, calls to dealers etc so that when I physically go in to dealer it is pretty much to seal the deal. In fact last 3 cars I have bought have been agreed over the phone.
My dad is looking for a Xsara Picasso, have narrowed it down to 3 dealers. Phoned each one, gave part ex details, exactly what dad is looking to buy. Went to dealer tonight, part of an extremely large group.
Stipulated what we were interested in, how much to spend. They looked at his part ex and came back and told us how this was so pleasant as the car was in fantastic condition, never seen a car that age looking so good. And then promptly offered £500 less than book for it.
Tried to persuade my dad to take a pre-reg on finance. My dad is 76 and told him no, under no circumstances did he want finance. He then offered him finance again, it was £10k to change, said he could pay £7k and the other £3k on finance. But it was 5 years 0% finance. Again dad said no. What bit of no finance wanted did they not understand? He then went to see what 57 or 07 used they had. After 15 mins waiting (1 hour in total) we got up and left and called into their office to call us if they found anything.
My dad was willing to do a deal tonight, he told them that, but they just ignored everything he asked or told them.
So onto the next dealer on Friday (Motorpoint) where I am reliably told, you can do a deal in mins!
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I do tend to go through a few cars its true but this move is sort of following on from the Daihatsu Charade move and how well that has turned out so far.
After driving the Yaris, my misses reckoned she does now like the idea of a smaller car and agrees with me that getting ahead of the game with fuel consumption isnt a bad idea before thirsty cars become worthless.
On speaking to the Subaru salesman, he said that they always find buyers for a Forester as they are sought after by generally loyal customers, hence the values hold up well even with fuel costs going up.
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Surely, unless the you can get back what you paid for this car recently then the cost to change will wipe out any fuel savings on a "supermini".
The cheapest car is the one you have.
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Insult? No, it's what it's worth to them on the deal. You just bought the wrong vehicle at the wrong time. IIRC, the original thread on the long running saga of the buying of this Subaru was responded to with many (sensible in my view..) alternative suggestions . You pays ya money etc...
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Bobby G - I would be interested to hear how you get on at Motorpoint. They have a couple of cars which seem good value at the moment and I have heard they give you a part-ex price over the 'phone which they honour if the car is as you describe it to them. I am just wondering if the part-ex value is well under book to make up for their cheapish prices. Let the BR know how you get on, please.
I am a bit fed up with main dealers and was thinking of trying a supermarket next time but have been a bit put off by the bad publicity and regular Watchdog appearances by one of the big supermarkets up here.
edit: I should add that years ago we went to a famous car supermarket in Cheshire and the part-ex was so far under book that it wiped out the price difference between them and a dealer. We got a better deal at the local Ford garage in the end.
Edited by tintin01 on 22/05/2008 at 17:31
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Tintin, the dealer my dad went to on Wed phoned him back - has now got a 10k mile Picasso, 57 Reg. £7k to change.
I went to Motorpoint yesterday and the guy phoned me back last night. £6500 to change for a 57, identical spec, but with 15k on the clock. Included in this deal was the car being serviced (worth £150 to me apparently even though I pointed out it might not need servicing), and one year's breakdown recovery (I am sure that would be covered by Citroen as car is only 8 months old but salesman said it wasn't transfeable?)
No tax was included with Motorpoint and my dad is unsure whether tax was included in dealer car.
So £500 dfference for 5k miles with dealer having the car quicker than Motorpoint. I have suggested to dad to go with dealer and try and get a year's tax thrown in and agree the deal there and then.
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We pay £1500 a year in insurance ( new driver ) so halving that would be very useful. Also, we dont consider our car an asset, so swapping one for another costs us nothing, plus of course, if fuel rises at the rate it is going, our cars value will surely start to dive when it becomes critical for your average owner although what point that is at who knows, me, id rather not test it.
We dont really want to do it as we love the car, however looking a year ahead, things could get rather unaffordable, something we both would like to avoid.
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I found our Toyota dealership had a system. It seemed to give them comfort, but made it impossible to deal with alternatives (like "I can get it cheaper elsewhere: would you like to try to match that?").
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Yes the system is frankly silly. I said to the salesman that I didnt want to go for a test drive until I knew whether the car was within budget re p/x, but he refused and insisted that we take a lengthly test drive and then pinned us down on whether or not we wanted to buy that car there and then, as if it would be rude to look anywhere else, only then did he proceed to act like a fool.
What did make me laugh is that despite insisting that the car was only worth £1k, he was keen to know if we would sign up if we accepted £5k for it.
Now pardon me but there is no way that a car up for £6495 is going to have £4k profit in it for him to give us £5k for our car but only trade it out for £1k. He was a darned liar and when he realised I was quite aware of his deception, infact even my misses rumbled his silliness, he got rather, er, shirty.
It was just excellent sport if nothing else.
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Hope you find a way out of it Stu. I `think` i suggested a diesel Panda at £6,300 from Fiat supersaver in that long thread we had, before you bought the Subaru. Either that or a C1 would seem suitable now. Rock bottom running and insurance costs kept on a 10yr+ plan can`t go wrong as they are both on camchains and galvanised -as you know-
Are you sure you`re not going to get caught out needing a van again though? Lettered and with a water tank to expand your valeting business?
As you know I have no sense of `prestige` at all and run a van as a private long distance touring car, for the economy and versatility.
Perhaps its different in Northamptonshire and my Yorkshire `old School` lack of image need would not go down well.
I wish you well and hope you can find a vehicle solution that will be suitable long term as anything less just tends to bleed money away to dealers, in my own past experience.
Regards
Edited by oilrag on 22/05/2008 at 19:15
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Buying a car and trading another is an interesting experience.
What comes out of this thread and the OP's experience is the training which the salesman seems to have had and his rigidity in following it. I once sat next to someone on the train reading her car salesman training manual and a lot of it was to do with obtaining information and then using that in the pitch so that to buy the car seemed an inevitable conclusion,
But if you won't follow that route then it's quite disturbing for the salesman. And you can always walk away.
Looking at the auction prices today it does seem there is a bit of caution where larger cars are concerned but the £1k p/ex offer seems a bit hysterical. On the other side of the coin it may be a while before the Subaru dealer has a space on his forecourt to allow him to buy in.
If it were me, and having just bought the Charade, I'd be holding on for a while before parting with any more money for anything on wheels.
Good luck.
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Need an automatic for my misses unfortunatly, otherwise it would be far easier.
Our shortlist is: Daihatsu Sirion/Charade, Toyota Yaris, Suzuki Alto, Kia Picanto/Rio and a Ford Fiesta although the auto models im not sure about.
The training is so very silly and trying to get them to deviate makes them very uncomfortable. In contrast my local Daihatsu dealer will do it in any order you wish, throws the keys at you and says take half an hour with the car, see what you think.
It makes the process so much easier and they are very straight forward about the part ex values.
We arent in the biggest hurry at this point to change the car, but we will stay on the lookout and if the right car and deal comes along we are open to it is how we are looking at it. It may be worth waiting for the Subaru dealer as he was more than happy to take the car back, not even a hesitation, pkus his valuation was inline with what we expected.
We arent going to part with any money, we will just trade in for a car in and around the part ex value of the Scooby.
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Quite why you see it as an insult I have no idea. Subarus have always suffered the problem that the trade doesn't like them. Only Subaru dealers appear to be able to sell them for reasonable money. When I traded mine in with a Ford dealer he was quite open about it, either it went to a Subaru dealer or they auctioned it. They are just to niche for most dealers. They are also unknown & relatively unloved by the general public.
What would you have preferred, him to offer what he thought it was worth "to him" or refuse it, which I've had in the past.
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>>It may be worth waiting for the Subaru dealer as he was more than happy to take the car back, not even a hesitation,
I could be and hopefully for you, will be quite wrong but IMO don't hold your breath Stu. They've forgotten you or they're waiting for you to call them back to hurry them on a bit and then they'll know you're serious about getting rid. Then they'll ignore you a bit more and wait for you to call again and then they'll fob you off with stories of being a bit over stocked and unfortunately your vehicle is not as much in demand now as it used to be just a few weeks ago. But they will make you an offer and nice people that they are, it will still be a big disappointment.
I've been there recently with my Legacy 3.0R and I reckon the dealers are looking at the recent VED rises, the increasing fuel prices and are seeing almost a one off opportunity to make big money at the expense of frightened punters to tide them over the massively hard times coming their way.
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We arent going to part with any money, we will just trade in for a car in and around the part ex value of the Scooby.
Wow - You are prepared to take quite a hit on the trade-in depreciation.
".. we dont consider our car an asset, so swapping one for another costs us nothing, ..
Wish I could say that. I would guess that even Roman Abramovich probably would wish he could say that.
It is just 10 weeks since you bought it for £8000 when you were full of praise for your choice and said " Well I bought it :-) ... we were thinking was that we would run this one for 5-7 years" and " its also relatively cheap to insure ".
" Talk me out of it anyone? - stunorthants26 - Fri 7 Mar 08 18:53 " www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=61021&...f
So what is the the big cataclysmic event that has caused such a U-turn in your thinking? Seems an amazing change of heart in a short space of time!
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Mainly because we have decided that we should tighten our monthly expenditure further as our plans for starting a family have come forward and due to a heart condition, my misses cannot work from 3 months preg if that, so if we can save more money in the shorter time we have available, its good for us. The Forester costs us £200 a month without even moving.
Also, while many here may well be able to absorb recent fuel price rises, we are worried that it may well become unaffordable for us if it continues at the current rate. UL was 10p a litre cheaper when we bought it and there are no guarantees the same wont happen in the next 10 wks. Its gone up 4p in the last two weeks alone.
Large car ownership is a sinking ship and personally, id rather stay dry and have a dingy :-)
The £8k we bought the Subaru at is already lost whether we keep the car or not, no point in worrying about that, but we can get a newer, lower mileage car thats cheaper to run if we just trade it in, which seems like a sensible idea in the current climate.
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Ask yourself the question,who wants a car like the Subaru at the moment and more importantly what price is that rare buyer willing to pay?Hence the low p/x value.
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Stu
I could understand you being so concerned about future motoring cost price increases if you were a teacher or policeman, but you run a business. There are plenty of down sides to running a business, but you are at an advantage over employees on fixed salaries and little chance of promotion, in that you have the potential to grow your business and increase your income.
You have been given many fine bits of advice in the previous thread about you business and you could improve your circumstances more by putting your time and energy into following these. However if the Subaru issue is causing you so much stress that it's preventing you from moving forward, take swift action, put it behind you and concentrate on building the good lifestyle for your family that I'm sure you are more than capable of doing.
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Personally I would keep the Subaru. It is likely to be very reliable, its out of warranty (so you don't need to go to main dealers for servicing - quite a saving there). Also if you are thinking of starting a family then its a good size car for family use. I think they're a really sensible car.
OK, they are not light on the fuel (I suspect the auto transmission is costing you a fair few mpg).
I have an Impreza with the later 4-cam 2.0 engine and with a light right foot it does 36mpg in mixed A-road & motorway driving. OK, its not fantastically economical, but quite acceptable given I only cover a modest annual mileage. If I floor it in each gear then it will obviously come out sub-30mpg. I can't imagine that the 2-cam engine is much less economical.
By swapping for a Yaris you are handing the motor trade c.£2k in margin. You can buy a lot of fuel with that. Are you also sure that the Yaris will be as economical as you think? I think an auto Yaris may use more fuel than you anticipate.
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Isn`t it group 11 insurance though at £1,500 per year with Stu`s missus having only passed her test this January?
Would changing to a group one or two insurance car, coupled with 60mpg instead of 23mpg and £35 instead of £---?? road tax, recoup the loss in changing?
What would be the two financial profiles over say a 5 year period at 10,000 miles per year? If Stu changed at this point that is.
Edited by oilrag on 23/05/2008 at 10:18
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Large car ownership is a sinking ship
Last month alone, 3 of my colleagues sold their various 2.5-3.0 L cars and downgraded to 1.3-1.8 L.
Days of performance/luxury motoring are almost over.
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Servicing is pretty cheap at the local dealer - £300 for cambelt service is about as good as it gets I think.
It is a really sensible car, your right of course, thats why we like it so much.
I couldnt care less about handing the trade a £2k margin because I simply cannot get my own hands on that £2k so its irrelevant to me as it is lost in depreciation and I cant spend the £2k on fuel can i?
The Yaris looks to get around 44 mpg combined as an auto, some options up to 48 mpg, which is a big step from the 29 mpg that we get from the Forester - now we manage to squeeze 31 mpg out of the Forester by driving like the proverbial vicar, which would suggest we may well be able to do the same with any car one would hope.
I have discounted several small autos on account of their terrible economy like the Polo auto which is nearly as expensive on CO2 and mpg as the Forester silly tho that is.
The fact is that with our current finances, we can only afford to drive the Subaru about 60 miles a month which amounts to my misses taking it to work once or twice a week, thats it. Expanding the business much further would impact our family planning ideas that would allow my misses to go back to work ( I will be primary child carer after maternity leave but my parents will help fill in when I pop out to work as I can bring in same money as my misses but still for the most part, be there for baby too as I work short hours for reasonable money ).
With my misses working 4 afternoons a week plus an evening and a full day on the weekend, it works out the best financial plan for us as its money we can count on, which when you have a baby to feed is far more important than hoping a business will expand.
Anyway thats off track! Given that many dealers I have been to, Hyundai esp are stocking a huge number of 4x4's, I dont think the market for them can be that bad as yet and its just a ploy by salesmen to play silly with trade-in values and make a killing if someone falls for it me thinks.
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Don't get to look in here much these days but not so long ago I remember your username advocating £500 banger motoring with old Japanese cars?? And now you're up to £8k!
No disrespect but you are all over the place with the figures on this such that it's near impossible for anyone to help.
You reckon you can only afford £10 of fuel a month yet reckon the next service at £300 is an OK-ish price..... what the next 30 months fuel budget spent on one service!!!
I thought you were involved with loads of trade contacts in your business. If so about the best thing would be to offload the Subaru privately and then get a trade buy from one of your friends at the £2000-3000 level so you draw back a bit for the family finances.
Swapping at a dealers will actually lose more than the £2000 (assuming you get anywhere near £6000 for the Subaru and in a swap I really doubt it)... remember paying retail for whatever you take from them will mean the new car loses £1000 the moment you drive it away.
I hope it all works out the way you want anyway.
David
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My guess is that the oil price will drop at least 20% by December. It's only speculators causing this bubble, not an inherent lack of oil or over-demand.
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Thanks for the update, Bobby G. I'm glad your dad got a deal he was happy with in the end. As far as salesman training goes, I think nearly all our cars have been bought when the sales staff have been relaxed and not pushy. I remember an obnoxious Citroen salesman who give us boiling hot coffee and kept saying, "If I can do you a deal will you sign today?". Any sign of pushiness and we leave usually pretty quickly.
Good luck with the baby plans, Stu. Once you have children you will forget about cars for a bit and you won't have time to hang around the BR.
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"The fact is that with our current finances, we can only afford to drive the Subaru about 60 miles a month which amounts to my misses taking it to work once or twice a week, thats it"
So, if you swap if for a car that does 75% (being generous) more MPG, you'll be able to drive it....100 miles / month - with reduced insurance, maybe up to 120 miles / month. Cool.
Time to chop it in, pay off the loan, and get that £500 banger.....
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So if you swap if for a car that does 75% (being generous) more MPG you'll be able to drive it....100 miles / month - with reduced insurance maybe up to 120 miles / month. Cool. Time to chop it in pay off the loan and get that £500 banger.....
That's the most sensible comment I have seen so far. If the car is only doing 120 miles a month (30 miles a week, or average 4.5 miles a day), then the quality of the car doesn't matter much.
There's another factor too. You say you are hoping to start a family (and I hope that works out for you!), but if you do, then you have child seats to consider. Have you checked how well easy it is to get a child seat in and out of a small car like a Yaris? And if you are going to keep the car for a few years, you may be looking at two child seats. How well would a Yaris accommodate two child seats plus pushchair?
I'm sure that with a bit of careful hunting, £1000 would buy you a secondhand Astra/Almera sized car with more room for child seatsa much cheaper petrol and insurance than the Subaru, and should still have enough life left in it for 7,000 miles you plan to use it for over the next five years.
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Stu,
a word of warning. My wife had the idea of downsizing to a Yaris and the whole thing has been a nightmare from a cheap and nasty little car to Toyota dealers who only know how to work to the script that Toyota sends them.
There is a Toyota Owners' Forum and problem Yari seem to be cropping up a lot.
Or like me you could be facing a 2k depreciation hit very soon just to get out of the thing!
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