Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - peanut
Hi all,

Am in the process of selling my car via autotrader. I've just received an offer for 100 more than asking price, which was a fair (and good) price which I'd have accepted. There hasn't been a bidding war or anything, or any other offers to compete against - just this offer out of the blue.

It's possible that there has been a mis-communication. But it seems very odd.

My nose tells me something is wrong: are there any BR'ers who know about this kind of thing?

Many thanks

Peanut.
Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - adverse camber
How are they offering to pay?

also what sort of value & car are we talking about?

Edited by adverse camber on 09/05/2008 at 19:54

Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - Pugugly
Be careful - very careful.
Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - niceguyeddy
Shipping Scam perhaps ..

If car is £5000 they will send you a cheque for £7000 then tell say along lines of "once cheque has cleared your bank senf the £2000 extra to our shipping agent"

You think cheque has cleared .... bank tells you cheque has cleared so you send £2000 to the "shipping agent".

No one collects the car and a few weeks later the cheque turns out to be forgery or stolen your bank takes the £5000 back and you are £2000 down.

Discussion boards on EBAY is a good place to read up on this and plenty of other scams.
Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - jbif
.... bank tells you cheque has cleared .... the cheque turns out to be forgery or stolen your bank takes the £5000 back ... .


Not true anymore, unless you actively take part in the scam (search previous recent threads on this ).
Banks have to honour the cheque it they have cleared it at any stage.

Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - pendulum
Scammers often offer to do silly things, like pay more than the asking price, to make you think you can get one over on them and take their money, while all the time they are trying to get yours. It is a common trick of theirs.

At least you are wary of it. Some people fall for ridiculous scams.

Go in to this one with alarm bells ringing in your head. I've sold three cars over AutoTrader and each time I've received at least one message from a scammer who's clearly trying it on.

Edited by pendulum on 09/05/2008 at 20:32

Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - peanut
Thanks for the feedback.

I take the line 'if something seems too good to be true, it probably is'. But I cannot discount the possibility that the potential buyer might actually really want this car - it's around 6K, fairly new, and not that common - and so want to secure it.

Am I right in thinking that if my bank tells me that the funds have cleared (the offer is by bankers draft) that all is settled, and there is no way that money can be 'reversed' out of my account?

Thanks again.

Peanut.
Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - oldnotbold
"the offer is by bankers draft"

Be very, very careful. In your position I'd take the buyer to the bank, with the cash sum for the car. Pay it in in front of him, bank teller checks all notes are good, and you hand over the keys, all on the bank's CCTV.

Bank drafts from strangers are really not a good idea. Once he's handed over the draft, he'll expect/demand the keys. You won't know if the draft is good for several days. I'd be quite surprised if a buyer offering a draft will wait for the period it takes for the draft to be confirmed.

The only other sure fire way is the the buyer to send the sum as a CHAPS payment. So long as it's sent before lunch time, it's cleared funds in your account that day. Only when your branch/online statement shows those funds in yr account do you release the keys.
Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - tack
How was offer made? over the phone?
Has purchaser actually been to see the car and test drive it?
Only contact a mobile number? or personal issue number?
why would someone offer £100 more for car?.....................everyone wants to bid down, especially at present with bad news everywhere! I would never offer asking price, et alone more than was asked for.

Did the purchaser sound African?

Let us know how it develops, but smells very fishy to me. Get your radar highly tuned and watch out
Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - peanut
This is where it all gets a bit sus. The offer was by e-mail , via autotrader. But like you say, he hasn't seen it, never mind driven it. Would I make an offer on that basis? No....!

Also, if I was buying, there are some questions I would ask, which haven't been.

I've said that I would want the money to be cleared by the bank before I hand anything over, and he has agreed.

I'm going to take the next step - my guess is that he will want bank details to arrange the transfer. What's that phrase about shooting a fox?

Peanut

Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - jbif
Am I right in thinking that if my bank tells me that the funds have cleared


Answer to that question here:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=61...4
""From 30 November 2007 changes to the cheque clearing process come into effect:
.... etc. etc. .....

Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - smokescreen
For bank drafts, its possible to call someone at the originating bank and read them a bank draft's ID. They can then confirm over the phone, whether it is genuine or not from their systems.

Ofcourse, make sure you source the number yourself!
Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - oldnotbold
" For bank drafts, its possible to call someone at the originating bank and read them a bank draft's ID. They can then confirm over the phone, whether it is genuine or not from their systems."

I wouldn't risk £6,000 on a phone call with a person I'd never met. What comeback is there if they give duff gen? If my bank manager gave me the news in person, OK, but an erk in a call centre - no way.
Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - smokescreen
I was referring to calling a branch it originated from, rather than a call center.
Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - Round The Bend
Peanut, from what you say this looks like one to pull away from now. It pongs like a fortnight old kipper left on a hot engine. Readvertise (remember your local paper).
Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - peanut
RTB

Having slept on it, I think you're right. Too much doesn't add up.

Thanks to all BR'ers for your help.

Peanut.
Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - oldnotbold
" I was referring to calling a branch it originated from, rather than a call center"

Calls to NatWest Newbury are handle by a call centre in Theale, which does much of the Thames Valley. A former teacher of my kids does a couple of shifts a week there, and I've had him handle my call in the past.
Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - Screwloose
Peanut

Wise move.

Even if you ring the originating bank; they can only tell you that a draft to that value, bearing that number, was issued by themselves - they can't guarantee that the one you pay in won't be a copy and the original was paid back in by the scammer.
Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - martint123
Do these changes mean that cheques are safer from fraud?

No, you should always be wary of accepting high-value cheques or bankers' drafts. If you don't know or trust the person offering you a cheque you should consider other options such as a CHAPS payment, a phone or internet payment or cash. Ask your bank for advice if you are in any doubt.


Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - peanut

Thought you might appreciate knowing how it turned out. This has to be the most bizarre e-mail I've ever seen. Shipping Company?? To N Ireland?? Since when did a private buyer
use that? Surely you would come down on Easyjet and drive the car back?? And since when did it cost £4k to get a car to NI???? And WU charging £300??

RTB- make that a 6 week old kipper. With extra pongy bits.


here goes:-
"Thank you very much for getting back to me,and i'm really appreciate and comfortable with the details you have provided about the car,like i told you in my last email,i will offer you £5,850 . for the car because it's what i have been wanting. So below are the details that will be needed to issue the draft to you in order to complete the transaction as soon as possible:

Once you provide these details the draft will be issue to you within 24Hours.However, I'm going to ask my client to issue the Banker Draft of £10,650 in your name to cover the asking price of the CAR and the shipping cost.So when the Draft HAS FULLY CLEARED AND CONFIRMED in your bank account,you are to deduct the asking price of this CAR and refer the remainder of the money to the shipping company who will come down to your house for the shipping of the CAR.

I learn't the banker's draft will take only 2-3 working days to clear in any UK bank if i'm right!!!!,so once the payment is cleared you are to send the differences to the shipping company via western union. I will give you £300 for the western union charges and the inconvenience i may cause you and I will also provide to you the shipping company's details as soon as the money is cleared in you.

All i need now is your assurance that you will be able to handle this once the money has been confirmed in your bank ..I really want to complete the deal in a timely fashion.
Here are the details needed:"

etc etc

Peanut
Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - oldnotbold
Peanut

This is a rare West African Kipper, originating in Nigeria. My friend Mr Charles also offered me a similar kipper. £4,000 by draft drawn on an Irish bank. What fun!
Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - DP
I had one of these when I sold my ZX7R. Wasted his time for about a week, stringing him along with "nibbles" before telling him I knew exactly what he was up to and to do one. The guy was persistent, I'll give him that.

Cheers
DP


Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - Mike H
I had a similar experience and had great fun pretending I'd fallen for his scam - he seemed to be getting really excited over buying my car worth £500 for £5000.......I got bored eventually. In my last email to him, I told him to pretend his name was Wayne Kerr, and to stand up wherever he was and proclaim this in a loud voice - as in, "I am a Wayne Kerr". The thought of it made me chuckle.
Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - niceguyeddy
Shipping scam ..

try www.419eater.com

makes a good read !
Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - FotheringtonThomas
Sounds as if, as you've got a bite, it's worth reporting to your local police, who quite possibly may want to follow it up.
Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - oldnotbold
FT - the would-be scammer is not in the UK. When I had a scammer's sidekick running around trying to meet up to get the "extra" £3,600 over the price of the car the police were not interested. Told the police I was happy to set up a sting, and they had kittens. An earlier experience with a fraudster who'd done a bank for £200k with similarly frustrating, despite me having enough information to convict the guy, and knowing where he lived (in England).

I'm really not sure what the police do apart from catch people at 35.5 mph and send them on awareness courses, except for those in Special Branch/anti-terror units.
Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - Bill Payer
and knowing where he lived (in England).

..and of course, in the case of a car purchase, the fraudster also knows where you live, although no-one will ever actually collect the car (all they're interested in the "shipping" payment that you transfer back to them via Western Union).

Personally, I wouldn't toy with these people. There's organised crime behind many of these scams and you really don't know who you're getting involved with.
Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - midlifecrisis
I'm really not sure what the police do apart from catch people at 35.5 mph
and send them on awareness courses except for those in Special Branch/anti-terror units.


Eat High fibre bars and look cool in shades on a sunny day!!!! ;)

(Doughnuts are now banned under health and safety legislation)
Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - oldnotbold
Present co. excepted of course. And I've seen them have to do the nasty post-accident stuff, all the way up to knocking on the door and telling the family of the recently-departed, which can't be easy.

My beef is with the investigation of domestic crime, really. Seems that so long as no-one is hurt, then very little follow -up action is taken.
Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - midlifecrisis
I can only speak for my Force, but I know if someone even suggests they have been a victim of a crime, it cannot be filed until an investigation takes place.

What this means in reality is that all the response officers time is spent running around dealing with chav's who complain that their neighbour has nicked the last can of stella while they were getting drunk together.
Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - Pugugly
"My beef is with the investigation of domestic crime, really. Seems that so long as no-one is hurt, then very little follow -up action is taken"


May have been true ten years or more ago - different environment for the Police these days. I was with a DS today who manages the local Public Protection Unit (which includes Domestics) and this was a topic of conversation - things have moved on considerably.
Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - oldnotbold
PU - when I said domestic, I meant house burglary, not two people within/without a marriage mistreating each other, which I think is taken seriously in the main.
Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - tack
Do me a favour. The police have enough to deal with to be messing around with some self proclaimed "under cover" citizen trying to set up a sting for a Nigerian fraudster. If I had a penny for every time I heard that one, I'd be a multi millionaire.

These scams are two a penny and as long as you don't fall for one....just forget it. No police force records these attempts as a crime, not even the City of London Police Fraud Squad (the new national fraud czars!)

Almost on a daily basis, you'd pick up the phone and Don from Nottingham, Mick from Dover or Billy from Zeal Monochorum would want to "hand you an arrest on a plate" as he has been bright enough to sus out the fraud and wants to lure Mr Odunlame to a sting. The hurt in their voices when you turn them away ....oh dear.

These people never meet anyone, they don't need to. For every 1000 guys who sus the scam, there is 1 who hands over the dosh. That's all they want. You no play? they move on to the next on their list, time is money.
Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - jbif
These scams are two a penny and as long as you don't fall for one


In the USA, apparently they take Nigerian scams seriously.
www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/30/nasa_employee_419.../

"" A Nigerian man was sentenced to 18 months in prison after tricking a NASA employee into clicking on an email attachment ..... NASA's Office of Inspector General (OIG) began investigating the breach in December 2006 ..... A joint investigative team comprising Nigeria's Economic and Financial Crime Commission (EFCC), US Attorneys in Washington and New York and the OIG's computer crimes division convened an undercover operation that eventually led to 27-year-old Akeem Adejumo, ..."

Edited by jbif on 12/05/2008 at 23:32

Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - tack
>>In the USA, apparently they take Nigerian scams seriously>>

Ah, but not the same when you read the story. That was about malware installed on a PC when email was clicked on. What we are talking about here are 419 scams and "money mule" scams where the unsuspecting are asked to part with money

Whilst it is right to say police here rarely respond to individual attempts or actual obtainings, they have made great efforts to stem the crime at source by close liaison with highly placed Nigerian police(who have had a modicum of success - Look up Fred Ajudua, king of the 419'ers on google)

In addition, a number of international courier type aircraft have been raided on arrival at London airports from Nigeria. These have contained scores of thousands of ready made out cheques (previously stolen in transit and expertly altered) ready for dispatch to "south east london addresses" to send to unsuspecting car/bike/toaster/table and chairs sellers advertising in Loot, E&M, local papers and Auto Express. That is far more cost effective and..........well.........effective.
Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - barney100
There have been tales of money being''cleared '' and then some how of a sudden it was a mirage. Don't let anyone have Your car until the bank guarantees the money is secure preferably in writing!
Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - Mapmaker
When I was working for a big four accountancy firm a few years ago, 419 letters and had to be forwarded to compliance!!! I guess they no longer bother...
Help please: selling a car - too good an offer? - Mapmaker
HJ that's the problem. THEY pay by bankers draft, and you REPAY by Moneygram or WU.


If they pay you by WU and you pay them by bankers draft, their scam no longer works...
 

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