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Any suggestions on what car i can get for £4500 to replace my 180,000 mile Mk 2 Golf GTI with failing brakes. Don't really want to go for a Vauxhall/ Ford. Considering a diesel such as a Peugeot 306 or mk3 Golf TDI. Going off to auction tonight so if you have any opinions...!! Thanks!
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If you've been used to VW build quality then DON'T go for the Peugeot. Annoying squeaks and loads of cheap rattly plastic will drive you mad. Go for the Golf TDi (Although I'm not sure what £4500 will buy)
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I've owner 3 new Peugeots and two newish VW's.
The Pugs are every bit as good quality and much quicker better handling with better built / more modern engines...
QED.
Prolly be a bit cheaper as well.
BOdy panels are slightly more fragile on the Pugs. - I suspect they're lighter though so it's swings an R/B's.David Lacey wrote:
>
> If you've been used to VW build quality then DON'T go for the
> Peugeot. Annoying squeaks and loads of cheap rattly plastic
> will drive you mad. Go for the Golf TDi (Although I'm not
> sure what £4500 will buy)
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If you intend keeping it for a while I would tend to go for something that doesn't rust.
I say that because we have scrapped more cars in our family over the years because of rust than for wearing out mechanically.
Depreciation is often the largest component of vehicle running costs.
Most mechanical parts can be repaired or replaced. A model which is rust-prone tends to become uneconomic to repair PDQ and its value drops to zero.
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I'd say that rust really shouldn't be a problem with anything made in the last ten years (with the possible exception of Fords and Rovers). Peugeots in my experience are utterly bomb proof mechanically, lovely to drive, and not rust-prone. My last one caught the tinworm aged thirteen, but I sold it aged fifteen still without any welding needed.
Chris
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I owned a MkII 16V Golf and got 170k out of it. Bought a P-reg Pug 306D Turbo and it was the worst car I have ever owned. Yes it was problem free but I binned it after 5 months and now drive an H-reg Golf GTI.
Honestly, you will *never* match a VW. Anything French is tinpot.
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This amount of money will only get you at best an N reg Golf TDI, hardly the stuff of dreams. Or you might fall upon a Golf 1.8 "Driver" or a leggy GTI.
All of which will be shortly needing specialist attention.
Best bet for you my friend is to go for a decent spec Mondeo or Vectra with about 60 K on clock - should be able to get an R or S reg easily will have aircon and so forth.
Go and have a look at the auction first, you might be tempted by a BMW 3series or something even more exotic - don't rush it though, think about what you want from the car, how many miles you'll drive etc.
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Fascinating - Dave loves the Peugeot while Guy says they are rubbish. They can't both be right - one or both must be biased, or have been unlucky. At any rate plenty of people say VW/Audi aren't what they were, so maybe we should all learn to keep an open mind?
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Any noticeable difference in "real world" mpg and performance between the Golf and the Pug? Andrew Tarr wrote:
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Exactly!!!
That is why I reverted 5 years hence and bought an H-reg Golf.
VW/Audi/Merc/BMW from the 90's are so over engineered they are faultless. I went off the Pug almost as soon as I drove it out of the garage due to its poor design, thin panels, horrendous seats (like deckchairs) and antique engine.
The new Golfs etc are nowhere near the Golfs from the 80's/90's purely because they have lost that edge where function was better than fitment. Remember the BMW's coming without a stereo?? I would rather have decent panels etc than a steering column controlled radio.
It's about time the French and East Asian manufacturers realised this rather than building a sub-standard under powered car overloaded with extras. Who wants air-con on a 1L Micra?
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Guy,
306TD with an antique engine? Was it a 1960's Perkins conversion?
The 1.9 Peugeot/Citroen TD is one of the best and most popular diesels of the last twenty years. Up to about 1997 it has none of the ECU controlled complexity of later diesels. The blend of smoothness, power and economy is well respected by most. With proper maintenance well over 200,000 miles can be expected.
I am wary of knocking anything on pure opinion but just try a Renault/Ford/Vauxhall/Volvo disesl of the same era then think hard about the superiority of the Pug/Cit.
Now of course if you want a petrol GTi, then don't buy a TD. But over a typical journey the 306TD will keep pace with the GTi Golf, if only because either is able to exceed the safe speed in most traffic situations.
Having said all that I can agree a little with some aspects of the 306 faults, each to his own but I drive a 1.9TD fitted in a better bodyshell. Actually one of the best mid-range TD car bargains on the market. What that might be is for a different thread!
David
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We've been here before David. How can we convince the petrol heads that diesel is best? Well, 30% better fuel consumption (equivalent to a 30% cut in tax?), but that won't suit the speed freaks. Or the fact that even the non-turbo diesels will pull away in fifth from 30mph? Only Ferraris etc. can do that without complaint. Or the way that they turn over lazily at motorway speeds making the journey relaxing and quiet? Or maybe that they are the only engine currently in production that will run right now on a CO2 neutral fuel source? Give it a few years for the fleets to buy and sell on large numbers of tax-beneficial diesels and things will be very different around here. IMHO petrol engines make no sense off the race track, and even there their days may be numbered :-)
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Got to Agree with Guy !
I had a 1990 Jetta 1800 for years, it was the best car I have owned, look at the condition of Golfs, Jettas of this age, they are absolutely Bomb proof, ok so the peugeot diesel engine is good, but what it's attached to is a load of crap, compare a Golf with a Peugeot 309 ( if you can find one ) and you'll see what we mean.
Audi 80's are excellent too - you could find a decent TDI version for 4.5K
Hell you could probably find a BMW 525TD !!!
French cars are shoddily constructed because they don't keep them for long over there, before they get crashed.
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Marcus is very confident in his strong opinions. However I do not believe any car made these days is truly "cr-p" or "rubbish". There were some pretty iffy models about in the 60's and 70's but now most cars are able devices. Some are just more able than others in different areas.
We have had VW/Audi models in the family for years and now many Cit/Pug models. I think in the late 70's the VW was built far better than anything else but they (dare I say it) have slipped a bit recently and everything else has improved.
Take your specific Golf example. We have a 1993 Golf 1.8GL in the family, also a 1993 ZX 1.9TD. Both are in long term retirement ownership with very similar useage. Both have been excellent cars overall. But it is the Golf that is just showing early signs of wheel arch rust, the body Citroen is perfect. It is the Golf that has suffered splitting (sun?) to the dash and some broken plastic trim parts, nothing fallen off the ZX yet. It is the Golf that feels more old fashioned to drive, the Citroen has better ride and handling and that wonderful torquey TD engine.
It is true the Golf has a better forecourt image and will sell for perhaps 40% more.
And do things go wrong with VW's? Yes but the owners are often very very loyal and don't tell!
So is either "cr-p", or course not.
David
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> compare a Golf with a Peugeot 309 ( if you can find one ) and
> you'll see what we mean.
Er, actually the 309 is a well-kept bargain banger secret. I just sold one that was fifteen years old, had well over 100K on the clock and was perfectly presentable. All the electrics worked properly, the trim was fine and the body was in good shape. It had to go because I needed an estate. I had it for the last five years and forty-five thousand miles. It let me down just once, when the connection to the battery worked loose. And at the last MOT it failed because the horn didn't work (even though I tested it ten minutes earlier) - that was all. I miss it.
If your budget is under £1000, the 309 is a fine choice - especially the diesels and the GTI.
Chris
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Whereas, for example, in France, diesel is taxed less heavily than petrol and therefore about 15p/litre cheaper, in the UK the rates are about the same.
Road fund rates based on CO2 emissions and company car tax are both biased against diesel in the UK.
Until we get rid of Gordon Brown the situation is not going to change.
If the government actually did something about getting biodiesel onto the forecourts I might believe that they were serious about environmental issues. At the moment it is all spin and no action.
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Actually Brian although there is a fixed-rate tax penalty on diesel in practice because they produce so much less co2 most diesels will have a tax advantage. That's despite the penalty. The fleet managers are already on to this I suspect.
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Chris
I would go along with what you say. My F reg. 309 diesel, not turbo, did me from 30k to 125k over seven years with only routine maintenance apart from a radiator at 50-55 mpg.
I, too, only changed it because we got two dogs and a caravan and needed an estate with a little more power.
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