I think this is just called market forces.
Just make sure your customers are comparing the same level of service and standards though you give though.
I bet you want to see similar competition in all the things you pay for.
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My daughter has always been interested in getting into hairdressing. I thought it would be a good thing because I reckoned that whilst many admin and manufacturing jobs might be exported, a 'personal service' like hairdressing would always need local workers. Unfortunately I figured without the importation of labour. Now that she is about to leave school and go to college to do hairdressing she's is finding that large numbers of eastern European students are being signed up at the college. The college runs an 'international hairdressing' course which teaches English in parallel with hairdressing skills. I was speaking to the course leader last week and she says that salons much prefer to employ the eastern European girls because they work harder and will accept a lower wage (or, more correctly, work more hours for the same wage).
What I'm trying to say is that I think the future for no- or low-skilled British people is very bleak. Business owners want cheap labour, that's the way the country has gone over the last 20 years. Training in most industries is minimal - they want cheap 'oven ready' workers with no strings and no unions etc. Government will not put any barriers in place because they want to be 'responsive to the needs of business'.
The winners are the professionals who have erected high barriers to entry into their jobs (accountants, medics etc) so that competition for jobs is kept under control and pay remains high and their costs drop as low skill labour becomes cheaper.
I don't possibly see how you can compete with cheaper valeters from overseas. I think the only way out is to get some form of training and get into a job which needs higher skill levels. The writing is on the wall I think.
I'm not sure how EU immigrants have suddenly become so vital to the UK economy that it would grind to halt if they didn't do these jobs. We managed OK a few years back (prior to 2004) before they joined the EU. Countries which limit access (e.g. Germany, Austria etc) also see to manage OK.
Incidentally, before anyone accuses me of being 'racist' I should say I'm actually half 'foreign' myself!
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.The winners are the professionals who have erected high barriers to entry into their jobs (accountants medics etc) so that competition for jobs is kept under control and payremains high
WONDERFUL! - I THINK IT'S CALLED STUDYING AND PASSING TESTING EXAMS, FOR A PERIOD OF FIVE OR SIX YEARS, USUALLY WITHOUT EARNING A PENNY!
No need to shout here - if its too much work we'll just delete them.
Edited by Pugugly on 23/04/2008 at 00:49
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sq
Yes, indeed. I have been there and got the T-shirt (three degrees after 7 years of studying at subsistence level for me).
However the fact is that there are many equally well qualified professionals from overseas who cannot get a job here because of barriers erected by 'professional institutions'. For example qualified doctors from outside the EU now find it almost impossible to secure a position in the UK thanks to regularity changes (lobbied for by the BMA). There is not the same 'open market' in professional jobs as exists for unskilled or low-skilled jobs - that's down the influence and political clout of said professionals who seek to manage supply and demand such that salaries remain high.
Edited by Pugugly on 23/04/2008 at 00:50
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qxman - the Mods do not like you copying whole posts. With your Diana Ross 3 degrees you should Shirley know that.
Having said that, in reply to your comment:My daughter has always been interested in getting into hairdressing. .... I reckoned that whilst many admin and manufacturing jobs might be exported, .....
The answer is, if you cannot beat 'em, then join 'em. See
Australia - If your profession is Hairdresser in accordance with the Australian Skills Classified Occupation (ASCO) 4931-11 then you are currently in demand by employers in Australia.
New Zealand - ANZSCO code 391 for Hairdresser is your current occupation then you have a very good chance of qualifying for a skilled New Zealand visa.
thanks snipped the offending quoted post
Edited by Pugugly on 23/04/2008 at 00:51
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The winners are the professionals who have erected high barriers to entry into their jobs (medics etc) so that competition for jobs is kept
It's a shame that you cannot qualify for chopping legs off with a six-week long evening course, isn't it. :)
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The attitude of most British workers is appalling. I mean Appalling and I mean most.
Lethargy and Compliance will finish Britain off. To all of you with a Brain. Unless we become VERY hard in all areas, work ethic, attitude, consideration for others, basic manners then I am afraid my friends that the game is well and truly up.
What ever happened to my England, the one I knew as a child? 50 now and I despair.
Best regards to you all..............Martin.
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Stu,
That cheap labour from across the EU is always going to be there as people work their socks off to get a foothold. (and good luck to them)
But in your position I would try to get into something less labour intensive before 40 approaches limiting options and increasing chances of tendon and joint disability.
I was fit at 32 and could do 100 press ups. !0 years later and with the first frozen shoulder ( followed by further tendon problems) I could hardly change gear.
It never affected my work and I got around writing by putting reports onto tape. But I would have been finished if I depended on my hands for a living.
Hope you`re a lot luckier in that area, but I used to advise people to get out of labour intensive work before 40, in particular if self employed.
Some people are going to have no problem of course ( such as my Grandfather down a coal mine to 65) But i have seen people lose their house due to injury and labour intensive self employment.
You come over as being more than capable of further education or getting into something with more security.
Good luck anyway, hope you don`t mind me writing that.
regards
Edited by oilrag on 22/04/2008 at 18:17
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Also, to the above, market your service to companies (I'm sure you do already.. but target them specifically) & make great play of having public liability insurances & being a 'stable' , established business - in it for the long term etc. Companies like to establish business relationships - they want to know you'll be around when they need you - and for that you can charge more than the paltry retail buyer is willing to pay.
Is your van nicely signed? Do you have business stationery? Approach the leasing manager (or equivalent) of local companies - market your company (are you a limited company? - it can be worth doing - also get VAT regd.) Suggest an at-premises valet service - have a nicely printed menu of options to present - offer contract rates (this further enhances your chances of being seen as long-term etc.)
Forgive if all or any of the above is in your CV already. You need to get away from (a probably increasingly cost concious) a flaky retail (i.e. general public) customer base - or at least not be too reliant on it.
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QXman - there's two things in your daughter's favour -
1) her nationality - she's local, and like it or not, there will be people who want their hair done by a lass/lad who speaks like they do. So she needs to get not just the technical skills of hairdressing, but also the people skills, so that her clients come back and ask for her, because they like her, as well as like the way she does their hair.
2) the weakness of the £ against the ?. It's dropped by at least 15% in the last year, and it may go further. That scuppers the sums of the Eastern Europeans, and at the same time, their own economies are growing, so they might not stay here for too long.
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You could, of course, let HM Revenue and Customs know about the "other" car wash. Are they paying their staff less than the minimum wage etc?
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qxman is spot on.
If you see the way these imigrants live (and I do), there is no way on earth you would want to try and compete on price and lower yourself to the standards by which they seem happy-ish to live.
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Many thanks for the pick-me-up, I was really annoyed that a long time customer had turned like that as he didnt pay anywhere near what some do per hour ( I have a wealthy and generous customer who easily pays me £20 an hour when most jobs are around the £7 mark ).
I see what being said about them being on my level, but its hard when they do basically what I do, just I do the detailing and take care over what I do ( plus I dont empty the coin tray ). Its hard to convey this as worth alot more money esp with economic forecasts.
On the physical front, I have dodgy knees and my back cant do more than a 5 hour stint unless I take it very easy, but more recently I have taken far more precautions such as kneeling pads, not working in arkward positions and I make sure that all chemicals are now sealed away so Im not taking in fumes. I will do it aslong as I can, its ten years this year.
I guess all I can do it ride it out and hope my market doesnt shrink too much.
Edited by Webmaster on 23/04/2008 at 00:08
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I guess all I can do it ride it out and hope my market doesnt shrink too much.
Just as I thought, it seems your question was rhetorical, and not genuine.
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Just as I thought it seems your question was rhetorical and not genuine.
And the point of that incisive and helpful comment is...?
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Just as I thought it seems your question was rhetorical and not genuine. <<
Actually it was genuine but im already doing all suggested so theres not much I can change, hence my 'plod on' attitude.
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Just as I thought it seems your question was rhetorical and not genuine.
Not mutually exclusive, of course.
I have to say, I'd buy a BRoomer's valet over someone else's any day, esp. if he drove to me.
Do you do Co Durham, me bhoy?
What about handing out cards to your regulars, perhaps offering a discount on the first job?
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loyalty card?
8 car valets and you get a free one?
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Welcome to 'lowest bidder' Britain. I would agree with some sort of loyalty scheme. Things will get harder as people become more skint in the next few years.
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Well Stu, now the weather's getting better, you'll be getting a call shortly from me (looked you up, ta) to do our 2. (don't worry the hilux is SWMBO's shopping and runabout trolley, and gets babied more than me)
We arn't rich people, but we've worked jolly hard to get to our present, comfortable position, and we value quality and trust, honour etc. Sounds pompous? Probably, but believe me it'll be a cold day in hell before i give business to the type of small industry thats trying to undercut Stu. That includes building work or any other type of service, and anyone can take this as they feel fit. I've got a local young chap that does any building jobs for me, totally trustworthy, his word is sound, they are still around you just have to find them, and treat them well to make sure they enjoy coming back, bacon sarnies, gallons of tea etc, and pay them well and promptly.
What on earth is wrong with supporting your own local people?
Shoespy mentioned footwear, yes i buy quality British boots and shoes, wouldn't be seen dead in sports footwear, and as for having someone else's name emblazoned on any of my apparel...give me stength.
Rant over.
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You know what really annoyed me today, was a jibe this customer made about me making loadsa money from my job. Honestly, id prob not make any more working in Halfords, the reason being that to actually book jobs one after the other is nigh on impossible, not to mention the fact that 75% of people want their cars done on the weekend and with the best will in the world, I cant magic up 300 hours work time on a weekend.
This unfortunatly leaves me in the situation where I have to take any job I can at any time as I can never guarantee when the next one will be, so even if it means changing my personal arrangements, I almost always do it.
My weekly shopping budget is just £20 between me and my partner, hardly a wealthy mans budget, I dont drink nor smoke yet I found myself last week having paid child maintainance and the loan on my van for the month with the princely sum of £38 in my bank account. Its why in a way I take exception to the perception that there is real money in my trade as really, there isnt unless you are very lucky to tap into a vein of customers who you can line up over the whole week.
I have some very well paying customers but prob not enough yet, just takes a long while to find the good ones as lots of one-off jobs which dont really pay the bills long-term, but good long term arrangements do.
GB, I very much look forward to impressing ya, I consider it a matter of pride now!
I alway support my local farm shop, which is expanding so very fast because it is really superb and local support is massive even though the supermarket is just as far. If nothing else, I believe the the family behind the shop, who employ local people, deserve my money for the effort and struggles they have been through to get to where they are now. Business is rarely a sure thing but when it offers a good product, it deserves to succeed.
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Stu
Where I live people charge around £30 an hour to detail a car (not wash, not valet) and often charge for their travelling time. They also offer a maintenance service where after detailing your car they come back every month, three months or six months and maintain the finish with top quality products. You'll find lots of them on detailing world and many people asking for contacts for paint correction and detailing services and willing to pay for it. I've seen first hand the stunning difference a few hours with a Porter Cable polisher and the very best materials in the right hands can make.
I used to like to do this time consuming work myself but increasingly I find myself preferring to spend my time with the family or on my business undoing the efforts of Gordon Brown & Co to spoil my retirement plans. The point is I like my car to look really good and be easy to clean once a week or fortnight with minimum effort. Like GB I'd happpily pay someone a fair price to come and do this work knowing they are using the right equipment and consumables. If they booked to come back six months later to bring it back to 100% and maybe apply a harder wax for additional winter protection I'd be delighted. Who knows I might even refer them on to other people I know who would value such a service.
Granted you won't be able to fill your diary 100% with with this kind of work early on but if you set yourself some targets and market yourself (as you're sort of doing now!) you never know what might turn up and then you know you've given it your best shot.
Quality is remembered long after price is forgotten :-)
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I tend to aim for £10 an hour roughly as I feel thats good value but at the same time I dont feel im working for nothing.
Im not much into mechanical polishers unless the paint is faded as I prefer the manual method - its more precise if only for the physically fit. I use whatever combination of glaze/polish works best for the paint as it varies from colour to colour, paint quality etc.
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What do you use on your new Subaru Forester Stu?
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On my Forester, which is metallic black, I used a 3M handglaze which gives it good depth, then finished off with a liberal coat of Autosmart Carnuba Gold wax.
I also wash it twice a week with Autosmart Duet which is a high wax content shampoo.
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I think you are not very far from me (Raunds). A while ago one local trader with the best local reputation stopped dealing, and became a one man operation doing servicing. That one man has now left the business completely. The partner who left first said he couldn't live on the money he made from their reputation, which had been built up since 1930. They just couldn't compete.
Just like someone in my wife's family who ran a TV shop. The big shops were selling goods cheaper than he could buy them, yet people wanted him to repair the cheap TVs when they went wrong. They couldn't even sell the business, which has now closed.
In today's Britain price means much more than quality, and service.
Good luck.
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Returning to the OP's original question, it's not just cheaper imported labour that keeps the cost down, IMHO.
There's a lot of these hand car washes around where I live, and it's not just cars which emerge cleaner from the process. Reliable sources tell me the local constabules conducted surveillance on one of these establishments. Calculations revealed that they must have been washing cars 27 hours a day to account for the amount of cash being banked by the business...
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Regarding Honesty,
There is a small hand car wash at a shopping centre near us staffed by Gentlemen of East European and North African origin. SWMBO sometimes leaves the car with them (and the car keys) full of possessions and ashtray full of pound and 50p coins.
Nothing has ever gone missing even when she has chatted them up and got it down to £5 for a wash dry and interior valet, (being herself from a culture that negotiates...)
You can however, imagine how it feels to my penny pinching self ;) to actually pay for a car washing.. ( I`m actually in charge of all things car, including washing)
But I digress, regarding `honesty`, I had one of those top end tyre pressure gauges and a tread depth tool which I kept in the glovebox. (In my van) they are no longer there and there is only one place staffed by well paid locals that has had access to the van from new.
Regards
Edited by oilrag on 23/04/2008 at 10:35
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Its certainly true that there may be honest workers out there at these car washes, I just recall hearing seval stories from customers and via friends of my muum who have used a couple of the sites in Northampton, who have had their cars virtually stripped of anything not nailed down. Thing is, unless you make an inventory, you would never know or have proof.
I even strip my vehicles of belongings before I take it to main dealer, but then thats just me.
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Until he was put away a local drug dealer ran a "hand valeting" franchise in our local town. It was clear from the type of people(his little scrawny cohort ne'r do wells) he employed and the later financial investigation that he was laundering money through the company. Maybe I've been hanging around the Courts too long....
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Exactly my point, PU. OP can't compete against these people as it isn't a level playing field. They can afford to take a loss on the washing business provided the money emerges "clean" - just the cost of doing "business".
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Stu, you talk about hoping your market doesn't shrink. That's the wrong psychology. You need to work on expanding it.
The lower end of the market is washing and vacuuming, maybe with a polish. This is the province of unskilled chancers, often in the supermarket car park. The upper end is detailing - I'm sure you know what that entails. From what I read on detailingworld, that market seems pretty healthy.
If I were you I'd leave the eastern Europeans to the valeting and below, and move into detailing, where the ability to charge high prices - and still deliver perceivably good value - is higher.
Don't you also need to ensure your existence is well known? Advertising; leaflet drops (in up-market areas); relationships with car dealers and car clubs; show your work on detailingworld's 'Gallery' section; start contributing to the forums on car enthusiast websites, and let it be known what you do...
IMO, regardless of the credit crisis, higher interest rates and rising fuel bills, the market for services is still pretty healthy: many people are still willing to pay to have stuff done that they can't be bothered, or simply don't have the time, to do themselves.
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Welcome to the world of globalisation - we've had several years of bargain priced goods and cheap services, but now we're seeing the flipside.
A friend is a qualified accountant - she is being made redundant in May, and her department's job until then is to train their Indian replacements, who will take the work back with them to India.
In the future there will be few mega rich people, a much smaller middle class, and a huge number fighting to earn the minimum wage - the new Victorian age.
MVP
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Stu
You can do my car sometime - I'm based in South Northants if that works for you?
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i started at the low end of the market doing valeting in Leicester. used own vovo estate with good quality polishes etc. i made shed loads of money by contacting every taxi company within a 10 mile radius offering them a 24hr cleaning service for when people had been ill in their cars. i guaranteed to get them back on the road within the hour. i charged a standard £30. from there i was getting the cars in the daytime for full valets at £60 a time. i still own the valeting company but its run by a friend now and i take 15% of the profit and moved down south. i lost count of how many customers i dumped when they moaned about price. you really don't need them at all. spend your time getting better customers.
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I just had the Mondeo done at one of these "less than permanant businesses". (on an old garage forecourt). Must admit I did this on a whim, having seen there was n't much of a queue.
Paid £15 for comprehensive wash, wax, vac etc whilst I waited. Took them about 30 mins and at one point they had 5 guys working on the car. Would have taken me a couple of hours.
Can't say that I do this very often, but I had let the car get in rather a state inside and out so it was much needed.
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I wonder if you could persuade a few local businesses to let you do their staffs' cars in their car park during the working day? You wouldn't need many to sign up for one day a month to have a full week, then start to employ your own staff.
Do you have a good corporate name which you can build into something well-known and trustworthy? Could you get local businesses to write endorsements of your service to hand out to others?
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