hi everyone,
would be grateful if you could offer some advice
am looking to buy the petrol 1.6 focus. have narrowed it down to the zetec climate but unsure as to whether to go for the 100 or 115 bhp. am i right is saying that the 115 has a cam belt whereas the former has a chain cam and hence will require changing at a later date? how much would this cost? is there any difference in the driving experience between the two cars and any other differences?
thank you for the help
david
Edited by Webmaster on 18/04/2008 at 00:12
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If you really insist on a petrol Focus, stick with the 100bhp model. I have just got rid of a 3 month old 115bhp Focus zetec climate for a diesel equivalent (see other threads) and my honest advice would be go for a reg older diesel. However if petrol then the 115bhp only offers better performance over 4000 revs -it IS a very sweet engine but then so is the 100bhp. If you drive both of them 'normally' the performance does not vary very much. Fuel economy on the other hand is below average, with the 115 taking an even bigger hit if used to extract the extra performance. I rarely saw over 35mpg and average was 31 (hence a swop for diesel). Great car, brillliant drive and good comfort even with zetec 'sports' suspension. Reasonable (though not as good as initially perceived) build quality and good space. Do shop around though - there are 1000's on the market since the midlife make over this year - and prices vary wildly between dealers for the same models. Look at Ford direct - my diesel came via this route and I managed to do a deal for zero loss against the petrol model I think mainly because the dealer had just had so many of this particular model released to them the very day I looked!
Bottom line - The Focus is an excellent car, and the cheapest way to the newest model would be a 1.6 100 petrol. Just be sure you could live with 30 ish mpg and only 'acceptable' performance.
Oh, and yes the 115 is belt cam, probably about a £450 cost every 40K miles (to be safe).
Edited by Everest Pete on 18/04/2008 at 09:04
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Oh and yes the 115 is belt cam probably about a £450 cost every 40K miles (to be safe).
Two Ford dealers I have spoken to both said that every 100,000 miles or 10 years (i.e. as recommended by Ford Motor Co.) is quite OK. The larger of the two dealers said that the shortest life they had seen a belt fail in was 125,000 miles.
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Agreed. Ford belts are notorious for lasting longer than the specified interval. Changing every 80k or 8 years would be ultra-safe. Changing at 40k is way unnecessary.
And our 1.6 (100) petrol regularly tops 42mpg with overall average to date being 39mpg.
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be a 1.6 100 petrol. Just be sure you could live with30 ish mpg and only 'acceptable' performance. Oh and yes the 115 is belt cam probably about a £450 cost every 40K miles (to be safe).
Some not entirely true statements here, the 100 & 115 BHP are cam belt engines, however not only do these engines not have a reputation for cam-belt problems the recommended swap out is 100k or 10 years. Even if this is optimistic, it is still better than most other cam-belt engines. Also, we have a 1.6/100 engined Focus and have no problem getting 40+ mpg on a reasonable journey. I have no experience of the 115 engine yet, but it does follow that you need to rev these engines to get the performance. Personally, although I drive an Audi diesel myself, I didn't like the 1.6 CR diesel in the Focus, frankly it seemed a bit puny.
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having driven both (many test drives of the 100 and my father has the 115) the 115 is by far the nicer engine. you do need to rev it to get the most from it but its smoother and quieter/not as boomy than the 100 brake model. you could still do a hell of a lot worse than the 100 though
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Roly93 - Unless you disagree with HJ the 1.6/100 is chain cam.
Edited by Everest Pete on 18/04/2008 at 10:22
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Whoo guys! Ford may well recommend 100K belt changes, but not so long ago VW etc were recommending 80K with belts regularly failing at 60K. The 115 engine is a newish modification (now suspiciously deleted from the line up) so long term reliability is unproven. I would far rather replace early if I were keeping the car.
I agree mpg seems to vary a good deal with different use - mine is mainly urban trips hence the figures I got (incidently my TDCI is averaging 49 with the same use).
The OP asked for opinions to help make a choice - I stand by my view that whilst a great car, the Focus 'experience' can be greatly affected by engine choice - it just depends what sort of motoring OP mainly intends using it for.
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Puma 1.7s had a 100k cam belt recommendation - plenty of gloomy stories on Puma forums about broken cam-belts at much lower mileages.
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............ - plenty of gloomy stories on Puma forums about broken cam-belts at much lower mileages.
But still probably a small number compared with the number of engines made. In all walks of life the minority who have had problems with something like to publicise the fact, whereas the majority who haven't had a problem just say nothing.
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No doubt you're right, however like everything else in life, if there's evidence of a risk, you take it into account when you make decisions (in this case about maintainance) and act accordingly, there's evidence of cam belt failure at less than 100k so you change at say 60k.
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People love to hear bad news. You only have to think of what makes it to the headlines every day. As was pointed out bad news travels faster than good.
Some BMW 2.0 diesels have turbo problems
Some TDCi Fords will have DMF problems
Some Nissan X-Trails will have intercooler issues
Some cam belts will fail early
etc etc etc
What I would like to know is what percentage failure rate is actual. Then risk can be properly assessed and judged. How often on here do we see ping pong between contributors saying my XYZ is rubbish, ergo they all are and the counter argument from others saying mine is fine and has been no trouble at all.
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........... if there's evidence of a risk you take it into account ...........
There's a risk I'll be struck by lightning but I'm not going to alter my lifestyle because of it!
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Puma 1.7s had a 100k cam belt recommendation - plenty of gloomy stories on Puma forums about broken cam-belts at much lower mileages.
different engine altogether. no relevance.
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The point is, what a manufacturer says should not always be taken notice of!
Edited by Everest Pete on 18/04/2008 at 14:49
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I bought a Wilko long life lightbulb once from Wilkinsons. On the packet it said it would last 8 years. It went pop 6 months later. What does this imply for a long life bulb from General Electric?
Nothing. It implies that if you buy a Wilko long life bulb then it probably won't last more than 6 months. But has no relevance to a long life lightbulb from General Electric.
The belts in the 1.6 duratec engine in the Focus have a well established history of lasting at least the 100k specified interval. The fact that a Puma engine (completely different) didn't last that long has no relevance whatsoever.
Of course, any sensible person would shave a bit off that interval to be on the safe side and change at, say, 80k.
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Well there you are then so you agree !!
I disagree with you on the Puma thing - the fact is that Ford were recommending the belts to be changed at 100k and 10 years and that a proportion of them are known to go pop long before this age and mileage a. Armed with knowledge that things do fail before the end of their expected service life you make a decision whether you risk taking them to their service life or change them before. The Puma example is relevant in that it has a n overlong change recommendation and anecdotally it seems that belts are breaking. To be honest I would trust a Yamaha designed engine more than a Ford one. Puma is just an example to illustrate a point - using Vauxhall's engines and belt change frequency would be just as valid.
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Of course it has. All the big makers, VAG, Vauxhall etc used to have long cam-belt change mileages (probably to tempt the fleet managers) but they backtracked in the light of real world experience of belts breaking earlier than expected. I accept that most belts will go up to and beyond their expected service life, but in the real world the longer you leave an item like this the more risk is of the component itself failing or an associated component (water pump, tensioners etc) failing. I have to admire this blind faith in car makers when a great deal of evidence exists to the contrary (not just Ford). Ten year changes !!!!
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I accept that most belts will go up to and beyond their expected service life ............
I'm not going to look on the black side and assume that mine will be one of the few that might fail before the expected service life. If it does, it does. But since the chances are that it won't then I'm not going to worry about it. Why shouldn't I trust the manufacturer's recommendations? If anybody knows about the durability of their products then it's them. I'm sure the manufacturer is aware that a small percentage of cambelts fail prematurely, and I'm sure they consider that the number is small enough to not be concerned about. There will be a small number of samples of almost every part of a car that will fail prematurely. To design it to be otherwise would mean the car would end up too heavy, too bulky, or too expensive. In 40-odd years the only premature failures (breakages) I've experienced have been one bonnet hinge, and one dipstick tube support bracket ~ and neither of them on Fords.
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This is all true, and it's certainly the case that the people who have bad experiences are more likely to mention it than those who have good experiences - but given the potential damage a failed cam belt could cause, I do think it's an exception where risk aversity might be a good idea! In my (mk1 1.6) Focus, serviced according to schedule by franchised dealers, the cam belt failed at 92,000 miles / eight years - the rest of the engine had a lucky escape. Independent garage at which it was fixed recommended an 80,000-mile change at most.
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hi everyone,
thank you so much for your replies. have read them all with interest. the car will be used on a 20mile, each way, commute to work each week day and possibly slightly longer runs at the weekend. after a bit of thought i think that i will opt for the 100bhp model.
have spotted a few that appear to be from "ford lease hire". does the following price seem about right? 07 07plate model 1.6 zetec climate with approx 15,000miles for approx £7999 or perhaps slightly less. there seem to be a few at this price.
thanks once again for your help
david
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have spotted a few that appear to be from "ford lease hire".
which means it's likelyto be an ex-rental car, driven by 100 different drivers. How was it run in? 75% of them probably drove it fine. 10% of them probably didn't know how to drive and will have laboured it to hell and back. 10% will probably have driven it very hard. 5% will probably have abused it.
price seem about right? 07 07plate model 1.6 zetec climate with approx 15 000miles for approx £7999 or perhaps slightly less. there seem to be a few at this price.
I paid only £2k more for a brand new one with metallic paint and a few other minor extras (admittedly for a 1.6 Sport climate not a 1.6 Zetec climate, but very little difference between them). For that I got to choose colour and spec, I got 3 years of warranty and everything was brand new.
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Not sure what 'ford lease hire' means, but if it is was a hire car, I wouldn't be too concerned.
Judge it as per any used buy - test drive, service history, condition, warranty, impression/reputation of the seller etc
Price looks fair to me, but do have a look at the discounted price for a new one (Drive the Deal etc). Even if you don?t want to buy new its a negotiating lever.
Edited by nick1975 on 19/04/2008 at 08:05
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For good value, try and get a car which has been run for a short time by a Ford Motor Co employee. Mine was 16 months old but had only done 4000 miles. It was £1000 under list for its age. Tell a Ford dealer exactly what model and colour you want and I've no doubt they will be able to find one for you. (Ford sell them off at auction.)
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I've driven both the 1.6 100 & 115 ps numerous times. Everyday driving is fine in either car, however, out of these two engine I'd pick the 115ps as the engine is smooth and sweet throughout and is a little more economically than the 100 ps. Once the engines have been run in you should get 40 to 43 mpg average from the 100 ps and around 45 mpg from the 115 ps, unless you rev the nuts off them of course. The 1.6 TDCi is a gem of an engine and well worth considering, however, it does need the best diesel fuel to unleashe its fully potential.
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If you want real enjoyment buy a 2 litre petrol version.
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Hi Guys,
regarding the cam belt change, i personally wouldn't let it be the main deciding factor between the 110 and 115. I just last week got my wifes 2000, 1.6 zetec belt and tensioner changed at 76K miles, ok it was an independant garage but total cost was £140 including ford parts at £80 plus vat.
Chances are by the time its ready for a change, even on the side of caution, it will be out of warranty so difference in costs would be minimal between both variants of the car
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hi there
i finally bought a 100bhp zetec climate and love it. ended up buying it from a car supermarket because it seemed to give the best overall deal.
one quick question which i forgot to ask about...how does the manufacturer's three year warranty get transferred to myself?
thanks
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As long as you have the original documents (service book) and proof of ownership most dealers will honour the warranty. I turned up at a Ford dealers and all they wanted to see was the service book, the rest of the details they got from typing in the car's reg into a database.
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sq
That was my experience as well.
Edited by Pugugly on 26/05/2008 at 11:42
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When I bought the diesel focus, I had to fill in and sign a FordProtect ownership transfer form for the warranty. Give them a call on 0870 2416726 and they should be able to advise. I wouldn't take the chance of just assuming a dealer (particularly a Ford one!) will honour the warranty without the appropriate paperwork.
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I had a 1.8TDCI 115bhp, and after 6 months of bills that ran as far as £2,000 and still a prolbem on the car (22K miles only , mine from new , never wrong fuleled dealer services etc) I traded it for a brand new 1.8 petrol.
This is a far better performer than the 1.6 petrols and cost hardly anymore to run.
No cam belt no DMF and its not a TDCI which is wonderful.
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I have a 1.6 100bhp 2005 focus MK2. One of the reasons for deciding on this engine as opposed to the 1.6 115bhp was that I believed it to be chain driven. A couple of days ago I removed the cam cover and what did I find? a cam belt. My Ford dealer has since confirmed that both 1.6 petrol engines fitted to this model are indeed cam belt driven, the recommended change being 100,000 miles or 8 years. These intervals also now apply to our 1.25 Zetec SE powered Fiesta (reduced from 10 to 8 years).
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I have a 2007 56 plate 1.6 100bhp Focus. Have owned it for 25 days now. Mixed driving averaging 37mpg according to the onboard computer and over 700 miles.
Another poster suggested acceptable performance and I totally agree.
I knew within the first week or so of ownership that I should have got a 2.0 petrol estate. Chain cam, plenty power and for the mileage I do, a modest increase in running costs except maybe massive VED increase.
P E
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I have owned my 1.6 100bhp for 21 months and have covered 27000 mls. My average mpg over this period, calculated brim - brim has beem 37. The best acheived is 42 the worst 35. Performance has improved since 35000, like the other posters I would agree that it has been acceptable, only just. As per my recent post, my car has a belt cam the same as a 1.6 115bhp and I would imagine the 2.0. I'm sorry to say that HJ's C-B-C info is incorrect, Screwloose posted here back in around Jan 08 that all focus engines were cam belt driven with the exception of the Duratec HE.
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>>I'm sorry to say that HJ's C-B-C info is incorrect,
Don't worry, reputable chap that he is, he will be the first to admit he's wrong, and make the necessary changes.
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On a recent run with my 1.6 100bhp I gained a mere 350 miles from full to fuel light coming on.....48 litres...equating to 33.75 MPG.....pretty shocking to be honest!
I got better MPG from my 8 year old 1.6 16v (110 bhp) clio!
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My wife's car is the 1.6 Zetec Climate 100bhp. Looking at the trip computer the car averages 33mpg, and my wife isn't a sporty driver at all. This is a mix of B roads and some town driving of about 25 miles per day. Not quiet enough to warrant a diesel.
As for performance, the 100bhp engine produces lots of torque at low revs for a small petrol engine but I don't personally like the power delivery. The torque curves appears really flat throughout the rev range, at the expense of the power doesn't seem to rise like older Fords used to. I prefer the older screemer type engines that come alive above 4,000rpm. I suppose this is how most engines are these days to meet emmisions standards.
Overall the car works well and is liked by SWMBO, especially as her first choice was a Golf. It drives well and feels solid like you'd expect from a bigger car.
Enjoy.
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My average mpg over this period calculated brim - brim has beem 37. The bestacheived
is 42 the worst 35. >>
These figures are almost identical to SWMBO's 1.6 Focus Chic. Call me a boring old frat, but I think it's a great car.
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