Mum has an 03 plate StreetKa with 40k on the clock, which is acting up - I just wondered if anyone had any suggestions.
Symptoms:
Car starts fine, and idles fine, but misfires and "tugs" severely under load. This is worst when the engine is cold, and going through its warm up stage, but to be honest it's pretty bad all the time. Seems at its worst when asked to pull from lower revs in a higher gear, and less pronounced at higher revs.
As I said, starting performance is fine, and the idle is smooth and even. No EML on the dash. This is making it quite hard for me to do anything with it - a misfire at idle would be easier to track down, but no, it idles perfectly.
Plugs were changed at the last service about 8 months ago (Ford/Motorcraft genuine replacements) and this has started happening in the last month or two and has got progressively worse.
Any suggestions gratefuly received.
Cheers
DP
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Tracking down the outside of the plugs' ceramic?
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Thanks Screwloose, I'll see if there's any evidence of it.
Would you suspect ignition rather than fuel though?
Cheers
DP
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Something on the HT side of the ignition, Screwloose is right. The increased pressure from higher loads when not on idle is causing the spark to find an easier path to earth than across the plug gap. IE plugs, Ht leads, etc.
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First class advice as ever guys, thanks.
I visited today (first chance I've had) with a couple of old, but known good HT leads. The car was indeed very sick to the point of being undrivable, dropping onto two and three cylinders as soon as it was given any throttle, accompanied by the odd "blip" on idle. With my head buried under the bonnet with the engine running, I could hear an occasional light clicking sound from the coil pack area which could well have been a spark earthing. As a further clue, this noise would often accompany the momentary blip on idle.
After a few minutes substituting HT leads with my old pair, I had a perfect running car with my "new" leads on cylinders 1 and 4. Took the car up the road and it was transformed, and back to its old self.
Being a Sunday, we couldn't get a new set as none of the local places had them in stock. To get mum mobile again, we picked up a couple of universal jobbies from Halfords which were at least the right length, and clipped up into the bracket on the back of the cam cover just so. Car is now running perfectly, and a new set of the correct leads will be obtained and fitted this week.
Thanks again - spot on!
Cheers
DP
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Hmmm....
Misfire returned a few days later. Took it into the local indie (who have been known to the family for years and are very straight). They diagnosed a faulty coil pack, which they replaced, and fitted a new, matching set of HT leads. The car has run better than ever for about a week. Literally faultlessly for a good few hundred miles with better response and performance than it has ever had.
Then it died this morning when mum was driving to work. Loss of power / spluttering / spitting back. It was recovered to the garage again.
They are looking at it again now, but apparently it's showing no codes at all.
This car is a nightmare. It's one thing after another (this is just one of the list of faults it's had pretty much from the day it was bought).
Cheers
DP
Edited by DP on 30/04/2008 at 22:52
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DP
What are they reading it with? Many cheap scanners can only manage EOBD codes and they are useless without Ford codes as well.
Given the saga; I'd wonder about the coil drivers in the ECU. Which cylinders aren't firing?
Did you remove the plugs and check the insulators for tracking? Any sign of water in the plug wells?
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Hi Screwloose,
I don't know what scanner they are using or what the prognosis is so far, only what I heard from my dad on the phone earlier. They are quite a small outfit, but that's all I know about them other than they've been doing odd bits on various cars of the family for a few years (I now live about 50 miles away so don't use them myself. I have no idea what scanner they are using, but it does seem that the coil pack and leads made quite a difference, at least for a while.
When I was playing with it, I traced the misfire to cylinders 3 and 4, but thought I'd got rid of it by substituting the leads as mentioned before. I don't know whether the same cylinders were acting up during the subsequent problems.
I can confirm I did check the plugs - the plug ceramic was nice and clean with no sign of tracking and the wells were clean and dry. Plugs 3 and 4 were a bit sooted up, but I put that down to duff leads at the time. 1 and 2 were fine, with a nice light brown deposit.
I'll see what else I can find out tomorrow and post any new info.
Thanks as ever for your help.
Cheers
DP
Edited by DP on 30/04/2008 at 23:30
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DP
Coilpack pairs are 1 and 4; 2 and 3; so you weren't looking at a coil issue at that time.
Did your one have EGR fitted?
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Hi Screwloose.
Spoke to my dad briefly tonight.
The garage have done some logical diagnostics:
All four plugs are sparking
All four injectors are cycling
Fuel is getting into the cylinders
All four cylinder compressions are bang on the money.
Fuel tank drained and fuel system flushed (the tank had been filled a few miles prior to this happening so this was a reasonable assumption) and new fuel filter fitted.
All wiring connectors checked for tightness and cleanliness.
New set of spark plugs.
Coils replaced with secondhand but known good units.
Inlet pipework checked for leaks and tightness.
Despite all this, no joy. It starts fine, idles on four cylinders but drops to three as soon as any load is placed on the engine.
Towards the end of it, a code appeared relating to cylinder no 2 - I've asked dad to find out exactly what it is. Will post when I know.
I don't know if it has an EGR system. Have asked dad to find out.
Really appreciate your help with this.
Cheers
DP
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DP
If they have the means; get them to scope and compare the triggering signals for the two coils in the pack. The centre wire in the coil plug is a key-on feed and the two switching signals are on the outer pair.
They should be identical - just out of phase, obviously. It's not uncommon for a lead fault to cause the coil to back-spike the ECU and damage the coil driver transistors - repairs are often possible.
The code was likely P0302 [or Ford equivalent] and it will be 2 and 3 that cut under load.
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DP has outlined corerectly what has been done so far.
I spoke to the garage today and they told me the following.
The computer is showing a fault on No2 cylinder. On tickover all ignition readings are ok, but when revs are increased the igition adv reading on No2 shows a decrease, NOT an increase as on the other three pots.
Incidently, they even tried swopping No2 and No3 leads over and believe it or not... it makes no difference!!!!!!! No better and no worse!!! The guys at the garage are reluctant to change the (expensive) ECU until all other options have been eliminated, but they are rapidly running out of ideas. The local Ford dealer will not diagnose, unless they get the repair job. This is sort of understandable, but this is also the garage that couldnt find the fault on the alarm, and made a gash job on the drivers door lock!!!!!
I will try and find out what the fault code has been showing so far.
thanks
DPs Dad
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DP's Dad
The ECU times each cylinder individually on every stroke using a basic programmed map, input from it's sensors and it's own "adaptive" experience of previous trial-and-error.
One sensor that has a large input to ignition timing is the knock sensor that listens for pinking through the metal of the block. That's why cyl 2 is decreasing as it revs - the knock sensor is hearing something, [piston slap?] and the ECU is retarding the timing to try and lose it.
That might be related to your problem - or a complete red herring.
Cylinders 2 and 3 share a coil output and always spark at the same time - one cyl will be at BDC at the time and that spark is therefore wasted - fortunately they don't cost much.....
I'm still wondering about those coil switching signals....? [ECUs can be tested and often repaired.]
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p0302 fault code...cyl no2 misfire detected.common enough fault.try some of the special silicone grease .insert it into the plug lead (plug end),this usually stops the tracking.it is available from ford.
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hiya... i have a streetka 03 plate around the same milage,
i had the exact same problem that youre havin.
the solution to the problem is that you need a new oxygen sensor.
be careful that people dont rip you off as its an easy thing to fit.
i got charged around £90 for the part and labour.... yes a little expensive that was after i argued that the labour was a simple 2 min job if that!! so be carefull.
but hunt around for a decent quote. i have had this fitted and since then i have had no problems with the so called juddering..
so theres a quick solution for you.... hope it helped xxxxx
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OK, an update on this saga.
The indie was about admit defeat, but as a last resort decided to break and remake the multiplug connection to the ECU. He did this, and the car proceeded to run perfectly. No EML, no misfire.
Dad picked up the car, and they put about 1,000 miles on it over the next couple of weeks with no problems. Then the EML came on again, but the car continued to run perfectly. A few days after that, with the car booked in for another code read, the problems returned with a vengeance.
He spoke to the indie who said that he'd exhausted all options as far as his knowledge and the capabilities of his diagnostic equipment were concerned, and that they'd need to get it into a Ford dealer or someone with the Ford diagnostic tools. Dad booked it into the local Ford dealer last week.
The Ford tech said that the ECU was logging a coil pack failure code, and that the coil pack fitted was not a genuine Ford one (Dad knew this - the indie had given him an option). In addition the NGK spark plugs that had been installed were "not genuine Ford, and not the correct heat range, and should be changed." Dad agreed to this. A new genuine coil pack was fitted, together with new "Ford" (which I know are made by NGK as I fitted the last set when I serviced it last year) spark plugs. The ECU was "reset" and the car ran perfectly. Dad handed over £220, and drove the car away.
Last night, the EML came on again! The car is still running perfectly, but for how long?
To add insult to injury, moments later the passenger door lock mechanism failed again (for the third time).
Vics08 - thanks for the suggestion, but it had a new O2 sensor about a year ago for another (unrelated) fault. I believe the signal of the current one was also tested by the indie and passed as OK.
Screwloose - I'm wondering if you're on to something about the ECU coil switching circuitry. Although we're prepared to give the Ford dealer a fair chance, experience of many main agents tells me at some point they are going to throw their hands in the air and say "new ECU" at a cost of Goodness -knows-what. Are there any reputable, honest independent specialists with the same diagnostic tools as a Ford dealer?
Cheers
DP
Edited by Webmaster on 10/06/2008 at 01:36
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DP
I'm hamstrung by lack of the exact codes. There is no "coilpack failure" code - just a whole raft of ignition primary circuit malady and individual cylinder misfire codes. Which one the ECU chose to log may be illuminating - or not....
Is the extreme retardation on cyl 2 still present? [Oil level OK?] Did they scope and compare the primary signals? Plenty of indies with an IDS - finding one may be the hard bit.
BBA-Reman should be able to test the ECU.
Wild and weird thought - is the battery the correct calcium one. I've heard of inexplicable cases of the wrong battery causing a single-cyl miss on these. Also an intermittent water or coolant leak into the plugholes might be causing tracking before it boils off.
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Hi Screwloose,
Re there being no coilpack failure code - that doesn't surprise me. I am naturally suspicious of this dealer as they made a huge deal out of the sparks not being "genuine Ford" when I know there is no such thing. The Motorcraft items I fitted 18 months ago had Motorcraft stamped on one part of the ceramic, and NGK on the other. Branding, and nothing more. OK, the heat range may have been out, but that wouldn't cause problems on this scale. I think dad agreed just so he'd have some comeback if it re-occurred, which turned out to be a good choice. By agreeing everything they recommended, he has a clear opportunity to go back and complain that it's not fixed.
I'm not sure what battery is on it - I can find out though.
Oil level is definitely okay.
That's all the information I have. I have told dad not to agree a new ECU if they spring that on him, as we will get this one tested first. I've also asked if he can give me the exact codes logged when he takes it back.
Thanks for all your help as ever.
DP
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Update:
Car went back to Ford dealer last week, still running perfectly, but with the EML on. They could find no trace of a repeat (or otherwise) fault on the ignition side at all, but diagnosed a damaged catalytic converter. This would seem plausible, given the car hasn't run on all four cylinders permanently for quite some time.
Their stance was that they'd fixed the misfire problem, and this reappearance of the EML was something completely different. Given that the car was still running perfectly OK, it was hard to argue.
New cat fitted, and the car collected last Friday. It has been absolutely perfect ever since. Mum reckons it's got quite a lot of extra power now as well, although I haven't tested it. Seemed nippy enough before, to me.
Fingers crossed, that's the end of it. I hope so, as the total maintenance bill for the past year (this is just one of countless problems) is now well into four figures.
Still have knocking ARB bushes to sort out, but I can tackle that myself.
Thanks for all your help.
Cheers
DP
Edited by DP on 20/06/2008 at 12:44
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DP
If they found code P0420; then that is a plausible scenario.
Running with unburned fuel entering the cat can produce a very neat vortex-shaped hole right through the monolith.
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Hi all. I have just stumbled upon this thread and am having the same problems with the same model, except the car seems to be always running on (what sounds like) 3 cylinders.
I have checked the voltages coming across all 4 HT leads and they are all showing high voltage. Unplugging HT leads 1-3 has an effect on the engine and makes it run even rougher....so I know those cylinders are firing OK.
Unplugging the No' 4 HT lead on the engine has no effect on the engine running so I sense this cylinder is a problem. I changed that HT lead just in case and also the spark plug but still the car runs exactly the same (on what sounds like the first 3 cylinders). High voltage is going across the lead (checked with multimeter) but there is no arcing to the plug so I am completely stumped.
Can anyone help and advise what I need to do please? I need it fixed urgently but preferably not by a main dealer who will most probably charge over the odds for a basic diagnostic. I am in Warrington, Cheshire.
Thanks!
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tecas
You checked the HT with a multimeter? That's 37,000 volts!
Where is this high voltage "going across the lead?" If the lead is new and a sound plug stuffed in the end isn't sparking; then I'd suspect the coilpack - or an incorrect [non-calcium] battery.
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Try swapping leads 1 & 4 at the coilpack end and see if it's now No. 1 that's missing. If so then it's an injection fault.
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Thanks for the replies.
The multimeter was wildly fluctuating suggesting load. I sense it might be an injection fault then so have booked it into the dealer tomorrow to get it on the diagnostics. Hopefully the bill won't be too painful. If they say it's going to cost hundreds, I'll contemplate finding a specialist independent. In the meantime I am working 12 hour shifts around the problem with a shared car so the quicker it is back on the road the better...
Thanks again!
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Update: Got our car problem diagnosed at the dealer yesterday. It was the coilpack ignition that had gone bad and showing up as a fault code (good guess Screwloose). This was changed and £214 lighter, the car once more runs very well. But for how long...who knows. Thanks.
Edited by tecas on 29/06/2008 at 00:14
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Hi everyone. This is my first post on the forum and I hope someone can help.
I went on holiday for three weeks and parked my StreetKa in the garage. It ran fine before we went away. However, it now misfires in the low gears. It feels sluggish too. I'm certainly no mechanic, but is it possible it could be the same problem as above?
Any views most welcome.
Cheers.
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mrtom
Coilpack; HT lead and sparkplug problems are the most common faults on these.
There may be fault-codes stored - if the MIL light has come on. If not; start with a visual inspection of the leads and plugs and consider a new coilpack if there's nothing obviously wrong.
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What's a mother-in-law light ? :)
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What's a mother-in-law light ? :)
Trouble in the back seat....
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Cheers screwloose,
I'll take it down the garage tomorrow. It's got 44k on the clock and it was last serviced by Ford in April. However, having looked at the tick sheet it seems the leads and plugs weren't changed.
It just seemed odd that it suddenly started after sitting in the garage for 3 weeks.
Ceers for the reply.
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