So it's bad thing to reduce lorry traffic?
If it's at the expense of jobs, then yes. There a lot of people dependent on the truck and trucking industries. I was one, for a start. And one of the worst things a country can have is high unemployment.
In any case, I bet you wouldn't like it if there was a product marketed which would force cars off the road, especially if one of the car was yours. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
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What a bizarre thread.
Let's bring back pack-horses then - that'll create loads of jobs LOL!
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What a bizarre thread. Let's bring back pack-horses then - that'll create loads of jobs LOL!
Clearly written by someone who is in secure employment.
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Clearly written by someone who is in secure employment.
Well, as I understand it there is a big shortage of truck drivers in the UK (many many 1000's) so it should be possible to get driving work easily enough. That's why we are importing loads of drivers from Eastern Europe isn't it?
Anyway, no one with any sense is going to support measures which increase truck traffic, surely? That's the last thing we need on our traffic-choked roads.
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There is a great shortage of truck drivers in this country, unfortunately no shortage at all of hgv licence holders, genuine and otherwise.
Hence the gradual lowering of wages payable, but don't worry it'll soon be affecting everybody.
Only trouble is the standards tend to lower at the same rate.
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There is a great shortage of truck drivers in this country unfortunately no shortage at all of hgv licence holders genuine and otherwise. Hence the gradual lowering of wages payable but don't worry it'll soon be affecting everybody.
I must be thick because your statements don't compute with me. If there is a shortage of drivers, but a surplus of people qualified to do the job, then the wage rates will rise until the required number of drivers are in post. That's how the market works. Lowering of wages won't happen because that will only increase the shortage as drivers leave to do other better paid jobs.
A friend of mine works as an LGV driver for a major supermarket. He reckons there are loads of Eastern European drivers who have come into the country to fill jobs that UK people don't want. Remember that these driving jobs are well paid, not to mention staff discounts on everything the supermarket sells. Similarly I saw that one major bus company has opened a recruitment office in Poland to bring in drivers - again to fill vacancies that UK people don't want. I guess they'd rather do something else or sit on the dole.
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Maybe my irony detector is generating false positives but I thought gb was implying that plenty of people are qualified and prepared to work as drivers, but too many in his opinion can't drive for toffee. Result, wages down, standards down as more of the jobs are filled by the less competent.
Edited by Manatee on 05/04/2008 at 19:31
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Manatee, you could be right and maybe irony isn't my strongest gift, i was probably being a little caustic too.
Far too many doing the job now who really shouldn't be IMO. The roads are not the place for cut price jockeys.
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Manatee you could be right and maybe irony isn't my strongest gift i was probably being a little caustic too. Far too many doing the job now who really shouldn't be IMO. The roads are not the place for cut price jockeys.
But is there a shortage or not? I heard/read (can't remember) the Freight Transport Association quoting shortage of 80,000 drivers. Against that background I don't see wages falling or a shortage of work for those that want it. Big shortage of bus drivers too. I can imagine a shortage leading to falling standards as companies desperately take on any driver they can find, but not falling wages...
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A friend of mine works as an LGV driver for a major supermarket. He reckons there are loads of Eastern European drivers who have come into the country to fill jobs that UK people don't want.
'The jobs UK people don't want', i'm sick of hearing that old chestnut being turned out for quite some time now, but i think most of us have got wise.
One of the major supermarkets didn't used to have any problems getting drivers, in fact there was quite a waiting list, it was almost a 'dead mans shoes' situation.
Until that was they couldn't manage on billions of profit, so rewrote the contracts for new drivers, result not getting the applications, no problem the outsiders don't have our living expenses.
Talking of buses, can you remember the quality bus travel before deregulation, when drivers had properly paid jobs with pensions etc, compare that to the free for all now.
I know old time bus drivers who would not move that bus until an infirm person was properly seated, now they're likely to be hurled up the isle without a by your leave.
As long as the jobs are low paid they'll get the staff they deserve, and it will still cost them just as much in the long run, damage being one of the major increases.
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gordonbennet
I think you are harking back to the time when unions had a grip on road transport, restrictive practices etc etc. I remember the 60's and 70's quite well, don't remember 'quality bus travel' though....
Still not answered my query as to whether there is a shortage of drivers or not. The Freight Transport Association say there is a big shortage (many tens of thousands). Not a situation conducive to low wages I would think? Like any private sector business they will pay the minimum required to get the job done, nothing wrong with that, its the way market economies work. If they can't recruit enough drivers they have to pay more until an equilibrium is reached, that then becomes the market rate for the job.
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qxman, i did answer your post originally, yes there is a shortage of drivers, but there is no shortage of people with a licence to drive a truck. The two are not entwined.
About 5 or so years back there was a shortage of employable drivers, like now, difference being now some employers don't know quite what their recruiting, no history no references, language barrier etc. Another problem being that as the old school drivers have disappeared, so have the old school transport managers, and many of the new ones wouldn't know a driver from a bar of soap.
This industry is not paying the correct rate for the job, and as such cannot recruit good quality British drivers, many recruit others and often regret it, it will get a lot worse in coming years, and for many millions in other fields i believe.
If you go about the roads you must see for yourself how the standard of professional driving has deteriorated, so much that indeed television programs are being aired with the advice to keep out of the way of trucks, i don't remember programs like that 10 years ago.
I do remember bus travel being a little more steady, when profit wasn't the key word and service was.
Try living in a village now and using the non existant bus.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, kind regards to you anyway.
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Anyway no one with any sense is going to support measures which increase truck traffic surely? That's the last thing we need on our traffic-choked roads.
Since I have to frequently travel on a holiday route the last thing I need is anything which increases car traffic.
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If there were many lorries, each dedicated to only deliver full loads of Lenor, then it might have some bearing on the matter. I bet there aren't.
If there are, then logically there should be many lorries, having delivered their loads, returning empty.
I bet that the Lenor part of a typical load is small.
How soft is this country going to get? :)
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If all they do is bulk out ordinary Lenor with water and truck extra water around, why is concentrated Lenor more expensive? To pay for the adverts that pander to the clueless I suppose.
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and what about the caps and bottles you can bet they are not made at the lenor plant but made else where and trucked in by the truck load, then you have all the supermarket trucks that take the lenor to the shops maybe 1 case of lenor in amongst the whole delivery. its all just another new age 'look at us we're green' ploy to fool the idiot masses
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Clearly written by someone who is in secure employment.
I sympathise with your situation, but I have to say I agree with reducing the amount of freight transport that goes on where it is not strictly necessary. It may not be the traditional market but there will always be things that require moving even if it is not fabric softener.
As for being in secure employment, I feel it is my job in my role to work to make my role redundant and in doing so I hope to be able to gain promotion for myself and better conditions for the people who work for me by increasing their incomes and job satisfaction by removing a layer of management from our corporate structure.
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If any process can be made more efficient so that is uses less resources, whether that be labour, energy or raw materials, then it's good. The consumers of the product of that process will get it cheaper or quicker and/or the company will make more profit. All good. The consumers will keep more of their money to spend elsewhere and the company will have more money to invest and pay in taxes.
Perhaps we should bring back gas street lamps. Think of all the lamplighters put out of work.
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snip
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=33415
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 05/04/2008 at 21:26
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I bet you wouldn't like it if there was a product marketed which would force cars off the road, especially if one of the car was yours.>>
Buses, trains, even planes should all, in theory at least, "...force cars off the road"...:-)
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