A question for the hauliers out there.
The large quantity of east European lorries on the road network. Are they migrating to and from Europe on deliveries. Or have they brought their own rigs over and are working here for British haulage firms?
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Allegedly they bring goods in, then stay a while and do work over here, then when nearly empty of fuel disappear back over the water to refill (with both fuel and goods).
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A different skew on this.
Just been skiing in Bulgaria and our instructor works the Summer as a trucker for Wincanton driving milk tankers from Somerset to London.
He was a really pleasant and honest bloke who was simply desperate to make an honest living for his family in Bulgaria which is, despite EU membership, desperately poor.
I imagine that he is a good and honest driver, driving UK registered and fully tax paid trucks.
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A different skew on this..........
Yep, and how much less per hour does he work for compared to a UK driver? It is this type of imported labour that is driving down the wages in the industry!!!
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It is this type of imported labour that is driving down the wages in the industry!!!
Jobs are a market like anything else. If someone else can undercut you profitably then you're charging too much. Either find a new product (job), increase your volume of output to achieve the same overall profit with reduced margins (work longer hours) or accept lower profit.
Remember that we as European citizens have similar rights to go and seek employment wherever we like too.
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Jobs are a market like anything else. If someone else can undercut you profitably then you're charging too much. Either find a new product (job), increase your volume of output to achieve the same overall profit with reduced margins (work longer hours) or accept lower profit.
But I doubt the Bulgarian chap (for example) has to cope with such high housing costs, high fuel costs (when in Bulgaria), high council tax (or their local equivalent) , general energy costs etc. etc. Much of his (higher) income & standing costs will be spent & incurred in a much cheaper environment.
By all means equalise opportunity across a (notional) single market - but only if the implicit 'subsidy' (i.e. cheaper living costs for some parts of the 'single' market) is removed.
Then you'll have a proper & fair single market.
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Bulgaria seem keen to enter the Euro, when they do they will see their economic situation change as per Portugal and Eire. Then working cheaply as a trucker in the UK will lose its appeal as a credit boom will see prices, especially for housing, rocket.
I worry about these countries. OK, on the one hand I watched folk going through the bins in Sofia for anything they could find, even saw someone finish off a discarded paper cup of Coke from a bin. On the other hand, will they really be happy when their roads are as choked as ours by cars and trucks and they are struggling to pay for all their consumer electronics on tick. Meanwhile, organised crime still prospers, sailing around in their big black SUVs with blacked out windows (or, the really mean guys, armoured Jeep Cherokees).
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I worry about these countries. OK on the one hand I watched folk going through the bins in Sofia for anything they could find even saw someone finish off a discarded paper cup of Coke from a bin.
I used to see this all the time when delivering to Netto's stores, mainly in London but other areas of the UK as well - The managers used to have to put bleach in the bins over the top of everything to stop it happening!!
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My job involves dealing with many haulage companie's in Europe bringing components into the UK. Many of the drivers are from Eastern Europe, one haulier based in Holland, is responsible for all our loads from Italy, probably 15 per week only employs drivers from Eastonia, I have found these chaps very good. also 10 loads a week from Slovenia again very good drivers.
We have around 600 artic deliveries a week of which 55% will be shipped across the channel unacompanied the remaining 45% will be driven direct from the countries of origin. The vast majority of these will be back loaded by us for the return trip.
Of the drivers collecting our trailers from the UK ports, around a half of them are Polish, in the initial rush to get jobs in the UK their quality and qualifications were questionable, but I can say now that those that were questionable have been weeded out.
Speaking English can be a problem, but have found German a good way of communicating.
There are European hauliers out there that will only that only employ eastern european drivers,and will keep the driver in the UK untill he has a return load and is low on fuel. these type of companies pay very low wages.
None of these drivers work for a British firm, and none that I am aware of own their own rigs.
Edited by jaffa on 05/04/2008 at 13:47
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>>Jobs are a market like anything else. If someone else can undercut you profitably then you're charging too much. Either find a new product (job), increase your volume of output to achieve the same overall profit with reduced margins (work longer hours) or accept lower profit.
Remember that we as European citizens have similar rights to go and seek employment wherever we like too. <<
I always find smug comments like this come from people in a good comfortable job with little or no competition, and are unaware of how competitive it is when its an unfair comparison.
If I could live on £10 k a year I would quite happily charge a lot less and get much more work. But I would be busy and not able to live! There has to be reality too!
Well replied woodbines
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I always find smug comments like this come from people in a good comfortable job with little or no competition and are unaware of how competitive it is when its an unfair comparison.
Many jobs are now highly competitive - even 'professional' ones. We live in a word of 'turbo-capitalism' and 'flexible labour' - which the populace have consistently voted for through the '80's., '90's until now. I work in a university, teaching electronic engineering. Like many university staff I'm on a three year contract. Getting it renewed is intensely competitive. Jobs are almost always advertised on one or two well-known websites and attract applicants from not only the EU, but many from China, India, Pakistan and the Middle East. I would say that 50% of the staff in my department are from outside the EU, and probably 60-70% from outside the UK. In many cases salaries are below what a truck driver would earn (and this is for people with a PhD, a record of publishing in journals etc etc). The last remaining 'perk' is a decent pension scheme, although I doubt that will last much longer.
I used to do some electronics design consultancy work to supplement my income, but much of that has dried up because of the massive number of engineering graduates that have immigrated from India etc to the UK and are prepared to do work for buttons. Salaries are not much more than they were 10 years ago.
At the end of the day if you don't like the rate of pay or the nature of the job then go and do something different. All lower skilled jobs are underpinned by the minimum wage, after all.
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>>At the end of the day if you don't like the rate of pay or the nature of the job then go and do something different. All lower skilled jobs are underpinned by the minimum wage, after all. <<
Another great attitude to employment imo.
The big companies move jobs to make more(millions or billions etc) profit whilst the remaining workforce is left to survive on miminum wages and tax credits. So, the big cats make fortunes, the workers get little; and then they have to pay tax to help each other survive; ironically. And this isnt a political broadcast; its an attempt at eye opening!
What most people seem to want is loyalty and fair pay, not what they are currently getting. I work for myself and not directly involved. But as my customers have less to spend it impacts all down the line; eventually it will get back to those same companies.
We all complain of foreign call centres that we cant understand but the attitude seems to be it doesnt matter as long as its cheap! Surely this is the sort of site that has people with some influence on it; no body seems to want to return jobs here though!
But if you dont buy "made in britain" , or made "in eu" as 2nd choice" then you are getting what you pay for!
Personally I always source as local as i can!
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Another great attitude to employment imo. The big companies move jobs to make more(millions or billions etc) profit whilst the remaining workforce is left to survive on miminum wages and tax credits. So the big cats make fortunes the workers get little; and then they have to pay tax to help each other survive; ironically. And this isnt a political broadcast; its an attempt at eye opening!
Yup! Call it the Free Market, Globalisation - whatever. I don't need my eyes opening, seen it happening a good few years ago in my own job.
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