What would be described as a luxury small these days? BMW 1 series? Merc A class?
Somthing with plenty of comfots, auto box etc
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Van Den Plas Allegro. Nothing ever got anywhere near it.
Just as well.
659.
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I think you need to define Luxury first
- personally I don't think an auto-box is a luxury - a decent manual box that's silky-smooth is more like it. I've never liked Auto, although if that's your choice - - -
These days there needs to be somewhere for mobile phone, sat nav and CD-player etc. To include these would be costly and restrict choice, so better to provide the wirng and let the Dealer fit the gear.
Do you want special suspension?
nice courtesy lights, lights-on beepers etc - or- a load of dials on the dash, heated mug-holder, aircon...
I suspect the people who want luxury aren't paying for it - like Co, Car drivers . . . so they choose a large "mainstream" car. . . . and small-cars are already cramped withpout adding more stuff.
With all the extras the price would increase, defeating the point of a small-car, unless you have issues with parking, economy etc.
Let's read what you consider to be Luxury?
PS if the Vanden Plas (Allegro) had been screwed togther better it would have been a pretty decent car. Sadly the Unions weren't going to let that happen and Management didn't care either.
Edited by owler on 31/03/2008 at 01:36
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Audi A3. I'd rather have one of those than a 1-series or A-class any time.
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Personally, I like wood and leather in a luxury car - silver trim you get in a Ford Ka.
If not wood then that piano black finish that is becoming popular in high end cars is ok to look at if somewhat difficult to keep clean.
What small car offers all of this I dont really know although Renault have always offered a luxurious if expensive Clio and VW, BMW and Mercedes give you many luxury car equipment/options.
Given that the Renault is also supposed to ride well, id say thats the closest in concept to a small luxury car.
Fiesta Ghia a possibility too.
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If you want wood and leather in a small car, Stu, I think you'd have to go back to the 1966-71 Triumph 1300. Lovely to drive and supremely comfortable, but the engine was I think a bored-out Herald lump and not the greatest.
The Dolomite 1850 had a much better engine, but it was biogger than the 1300 and not really 'small'.
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The VW Bora Highline was pretty well equipped interior wise. See:
www.reviewcentre.com/cars482.html
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I know the Clio Baccara and Rover 114 GSi had wood/leather interiors albeit not the highest quality ones.
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Mercedes Benz S500 and a day of 'How to park' lessons.
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Mercedes Benz S500 and a day of 'How to park' lessons.
Now that's a luxury car! :-)
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Wolseley Hornet - it was a sort of boil washed Bentley.
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The wife has a 1.4 Corsa Design, current model.
Nice drive, quiet, economical, part leather, piano black trim, CD player (plays MP3 as well), auto lights, auto wipers, reversing sensors, lots of buttons which she doesn't know the function of ! ! ! !
Believe the CBC breakdown says it is not worth paying the extra for the Design and doesn't that define luxury.
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I started a thread on this topic a short while back.
I think the essence of a small luxury car is that is has the comfort of a larger car in a small package. So ease of access and a smooth ride with comfortable seats are the first matter, followed by good performance and lastly various 'toys'.
I am not sure if there is a car out there which meets all these criteria. The quality ride and good access features are met by many smaller cars these days, especially the Citroen C4 Picasso and Subaru Forester, but the internal ambiance isn't there in either car and ideally I would want a small 6 cylinder engine.
Somehow, I imagine a Skoda Fabia saloon would be able to meet the requirements (and I think it needs to be a small saloon), if only it had bigger engines.
The best example of the last 30 years is probably the Triumph Dolomite. Once described as a car to drive whilst wearing a dinner suit.
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The subject title doesn?t specify price, just size and comfort level. So I propose the BMW 3 series, particularly the SE.
All of the appointments you?d associate with a lux mobile are available ? leather, air, cruise, auto, walnut and more ? and the diesel engines both perform and return impressive economy figures.
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The 3 series is hardly 'small', though, is it?
Medium sized, yes, but not small.
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It's in the "compact" executive sector, isn't it?
The Oxford Compact Thesaurus lists small as synonymous with compact!
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The wife has a 1.4 Corsa Design current model.
I'm sorry but it's about as far removed from a luxury car as you can get. If I was faced with the decision between travelling 40 miles or more in a 'Corsa Design' or using the train, I would use the train!
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>> The wife has a 1.4 Corsa Design current model. I'm sorry but it's about as far removed from a luxury car as you can get. If I was faced with the decision between travelling 40 miles or more in a 'Corsa Design' or using the train I would use the train!
Whats wrong with a Corsa Design then? Dont just quote and run - I might want to buy one of those in a couple of years.
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My SWMBO has one too, I think it's a great car, has more luxury features than the old man's old style 528 had. NO auto wipers or lights, no MP3 aux socket, and cost about 3 times as much when he bought it new in 1995 or thereabouts. Complete waste.
He was impressed too, but being old they went out and bought a Honda Jazz instead.
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>> The wife has a 1.4 Corsa Design current model. I'm sorry but it's about as far removed from a luxury car as you can get. If I was faced with the decision between travelling 40 miles or more in a 'Corsa Design' or using the train I would use the train!
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Have you driven one?
Way better than the Allegro quoted above and, although I never drove one I did ride in a few Allegros!
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Way better than the Allegro quoted above and although I never drove one I did ride in a few Allegros!
IMO the Allegro isnt a bad drive really. The rides generally very good - except when you get bumps of a certain frequency and then you get the "hydragas bounce". The visibility is good, steering not too heavy and the gearbox on the 4 speeders can be slick. Yes you get a bit of gear whine but its actually quite nice to hear in an old fashioned kind of way.Brakes are servoed and stop the car okay. The rear brake shoes are such a cinch to change compared to a lot of modern drum brakes because they have manual adjustment. The A series is dead easy to look after - points and timing can be set easily and the carb mixture just needs a couple of turns on the jet adjusting screw and everythings golden. They dont rust too badly either compared to their peers. Parts are dirt cheap and it can be looked after with a couple of hours of relaxing pottering on a saturday afternoon.
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No, but there may well be a luxurious small car or even small luxury car, at a push.
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Yaris T Spirit
Add leather seats.
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The Mk III Golf VR6 Highline that I owned for ten years was a perfect small luxury car for my purposes. I recall describing it as a small Mercedes. Phone and satnav didn't come into it and wouldn't if I were buying now. Quietness, leather, performance, ride and build quality were what it was all about. Heated seats -- used them once in a blue moon.
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Funny, when I read this thread I also thought of the Golf VR6. I mate of mine had one in the mid nineties and it really sticks in my memory as being incredibly comfortable and refined, especially for a compact hatchback. Lovely engine note and outrageously over the top tan leather interior as well.
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Never mind Corsas even if the BiB use a lot of silver-and-marmalade jobs round here these days... What about that Auris 180 thingy in HJ's current test? Being a 17grand Japanese car it must be bulging with bells and whistles - luxury to many - and is decently rapid and economical. But the thing HJ commented on was its comfort over bumpy bits and speed humps. Made me quite fancy one myself although I'm not a Toyota fan and the Auris looks to me like an Edwardian jelly mould, almost a cube in its proportions.
BiL has a 1.4 diesel with the auto change, a sort of lever-overridden system, and it seems very nice. He likes it anyway.
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Mercedes sports coupe:
Small, yet still seats 4/5 people
Lots of toys
Fairly quick, except the c160 - get a 200k or 220 cdi
Prestigious badge
Fantastic looks
Lots of gadgets inc cruise control w. speed limiter, phone integration, auto box if you want, auto headlights, lights which stay on for 30 secs after you get out of the car, on board computer and time to next service indicator.
It's the best small luxury car money can buy in my opinion, and now you can pick up a 2005 model for around £13-14k
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BMW Mini?
With nice colour leather and a lot of options boxes ticked it would be luxurious. The cooper seven edition was a nice car.
Not sure about comfortable ride though so it may fall down on that.
Allegro vdp was a good effort at luxury though rear drop down walnut vaneer tables like a Daimler, idea was luxury even if execution wasn't !
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Specced-up previous-shape BMW 325 Compact, on high profile tyres...?
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The only small luxury car is the A3. Luxury in every way.
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The original question was luxury small car.
I define small as something the wife will happily drive and that excludes 3 series or larger, even the A3/Golf is borderline for her. Daughter is the same.
For me that excludes many suggested here as they are not small!
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The only small luxury car is the A3. Luxury in every way.
Apart from the unbelievably hard suspension which makes the car ride like as though it's been fitted with square wheels.
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Not quite true - depends on the model. I agree that sport suspension models are VERY firm, but my entry level model on normal tyres is a very nice ride and IMO rivals larger sallons.
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SE version does not have the rock hard suspension either. It's not a small car though, that was the A2 and I await the A1 with interest.
This question is more difficult now as small cars are catching up - 'luxury' features of a few years ago such as auto wipers, auto lights, climate control, satnav, leather interior are available on any size of car.
Remember when you bought a Fiesta L for the luxury of a rear wash wipe!
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Would not describe an entry level Audi as luxury - the toys are more than a little sparse
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Luxury to me isn't just how many toys or how much leather they can cram in it's all about size and excess. Luxury is above and beyond necessity or adequacy. So no, I don't think you can have a luxury small car. Who really considers the back of a supermini or a hatchback as a luxurious place to be? You could fit a carpet and a leather armchair inside a shed but it doesn't make it a drawing room.
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For me, it's quietness when cruising on A/M-ways. But the I don't need rear space - does anyone over 21 ever sit in the back of a car?
I think they call it refinement in the reports. For the best, I gather you need laminated windows, apart from the obvious soundproofing around wheel arches and engine. Wing-mirror design is important too for lowest wind noise.
I would add great seats/driving position/adjustable steering wheel as a critical factor in the word luxury too.
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"does anyone over 21 ever sit in the back of a car?"
Perhaps not but the luxury is in not needing it but having it anyway
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>>Such a thing?
No. Ride quality equates to size. If you haven't got a long wheelbase you cannot cancel out the lumps and bumps.
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>>does anyone over 21 ever sit in the back of a car?<<
I'm most certainly over 21, and always sit in the back - given the chance.
It's part of my 'luxury' - not having to fiddle with the so-called 'toys'
As for size - you have to be comfortable for the car to be considered luxurious.
If your wife / daughter doesn't like large cars, or 'toys', then she won't consider the car luxurious to drive - whatever anyone else's definition of luxury is.
It's all down to her interpretation.
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For a small £3k you can buy a 100k mile one owner 12 year old immaculate Mercedes 500SE..
With the savings from a new car's price you can employ your own chauffeur# and sit in the back...
# or SWMBO!
Edited by madf on 03/04/2008 at 12:22
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In my view there are things more important than leather seats, voice control, climate control etc. ie: all the usual toys you would get on a "luxury" car such as a BMW / MB / Lexus et al. Many of these items can be tacked onto more humble cars, but is this luxury?
IMHO such items as low road / tyre noise, a compliant ride under all loadings, good crosswind stability, auto transmission (maybe), decent performance as well as low engine noise through high overall gearing are important to give that refined ride in a luxury car.
A small car is at a disadvantage with all these items, which is what can make travelling in one a less than pleasant experience.
What would the optimum car be under these criteria ?
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