Getting a bit off topic here, but who else thinks the demise of the UK car manufacturing industry mirrors that of the UK motorcycle industry......only 30 years later?
Lack of investment..............management lining their own pockets! Need I go on?
Edited by Pugugly on 27/03/2008 at 22:06
|
Getting a bit off topic here but who else thinks the demise of the UK car manufacturing industry mirrors that of the UK motorcycle industry
I wouldn't be at all sure about that. The demise of the motorcycle industry was bought about by several factors - unwillingness to adapt in the face of competition who had only one comparatively simple design innovation in as their mainstay was, most likely, the major cause. Nowadays, it is even more true that "it's all been done before". The problems of the car manufacturing industry are likely to be more to do with production costs in the respective economic areas.
......only 30 years later?
Hm. In 1978, there was, effectively, no British motorcycle industry. It'd already gone. The rump that remained drew soley on tradition and the pulling of heart-strings.
Lack of investment..............management lining their own pockets! Need I go on?
Quite a few people lost a good deal when the abrupt end of the M/C industry came. I still think it was myopia and inertia ended the industry.
Now, it's all about costs - the same sort of stuff is made all around the world.
|
|
|
|
Nearer 40 years I reckon! It is sad to think of the names now gone though some still going like Triumph I think. We called the Japanese bikes ''rice grinders'' but who's laughing now?
|
>>We called the Japanese bikes ''rice grinders'' <<
Actually.. i think these were the "cheap Chinese look-alikes" - but we wont get into a paddy over it!
Billy
|
|
|
|
... the demise of the UK car manufacturing industry
What demise? I'm not sure about absolute numbers (though wouldn't be surprised if volumes are similar to the 'heyday' period some hark back to..) but UK car manufacture has never been as robust - and manufacturing well built cars in modern plants that compete with any in the world.
Oh! You mean the address of the head office might not end in 'London' or 'Birmingham' or name on the chairman's door no longer rhymes with 'Nuffield' ? Entirely & utterly irrelevant.
The ownership of international companies was, and is, infinitely dispersed - you may well own a chunk of Hyundai or Honda in your pension fund. No, car manufacture certainly hasn't gone the way of motorcycle manufacture.
|
|
I was involed with selling bikes then cars from the early 60s - the problem was 99% with the unions, the management were hung out to dry by the unions - they even came out on strike when they wanted to change the colour never mind anything more complicated - then when I had a meeting with a director of BL and I said the cars would go the same way as the bikes he said the unions would never let the government let it happen - the unions killed everything to do with them including the government of the day - with all those valuable high street sites we went into property - had to feed the kids.
|
This is a multi-faceted issue. By 2000 Ford and Vauxhall's quality had improved markedly but Ford and GM were drawn to lower wage areas such as Spain. Opel, in Germany, were` always of higher quality but have suffered cut backs for the same reason. BL was a totally different story. Yes there were union issues but the management was equally bad. After that successive governments did not give a damn about its ownership and the best parts have gradually been hived off. It is a pity as we have some of the best engineers in the world - we lead the world in F1 and came up with Land Rover, Mini, Rolls to name but a few. The media did not help either by continually rubbishing the cars. After all they brought Lancia sales to a virtually standstill with the rust stories when British cars rusted as fast.
|
|
Rust - Yes the same with Honda cars at that time - new cars came in off the boats with rust spots on the body and the suspension - we were issued with aerosol sprays for under the cars to stop it getting worse and had to respray the body panels - what a good PR job they did - perhaps that was our failing - not enough good PR? - in my view nothing special about being a dealer for Land Rover, Mini and Rolls - all agro - but Land Rover have had a good run thanks to the school run.
|
The indiginous British motor industry was destroyed by an unfortunate coming together of events, as I see it.
1) First, all the eggs went into one basket. Mergers and takeovers led to all the major British-owned makes being British Leyland subsidiaries. BL got into trouble and was nationalised. OK, I know Chrysler UK became an independent UK manufacturer again for a short time too but they went under and were bought by Peugeot-Talbot.
2) Lack of rationalisation. Managerments of the BMC, Jaguar, Rover and Triumph divisions of BL wanted to retain separate ranges and designs and stood up to BL chairman Lord Stokes.
3) Politically motivated and bloodyminded unions kept holding BL to ransom.
4) British motor industry didn't adopt metric component measurements early enough and lost out in many export markets. (The Maxi was BL's first metric design).
5) Rising foreign competition with superior reliability, particularly from Japan.
6) VW was saved by the Golf. BL didn't have a 'Golf' to save them.
All this makes me wonder....why is Renault still with us?
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 29/03/2008 at 22:48
|
From a bike user's point of view; I owned a 1966 Honda 250, model CB72, in about 1990. It was quick, handled fairly well, did not leak oil, looked good and was both electrically and mechanically reliable. That was the Japanese standard.
In the late 1970's I owned a succession of smaller British bikes. Without exception they were slower, less reliable, leaked oil, and had poor resale value.... but they did have "character". Not that it did you much good when you were pushing the beast down a dark country lane on a wet night because Joe Lucas had lived up to their nickname of the "Prince of Darkness"!
Same could be said of Britsh cars of the era, although "character" is not a known attribute of any BL product with the honourable exception of the Mini.
|
Triumph is doing well. The new Speed Triple is the choice for a bike of that class.
The Tiger is a far better riders bike than the BMW GS1200. The BMW sells bigger numbers for more cash on BMW's 'legendary' build quality but attitudes are changing slowly.
Triumph has a brand new factory after the fire but inevitably are moving some production out to Thailand. I had a tour of the factory in Chonbury absolute state of the art.
Bikes bought by UK bikers by choice not out of loyalty. Hugely popular with Spanish bikers and making big inroads in Germany.
As good as we are going to get these days.
|
he Tiger is a far better riders bike than the BMW GS1200
Never ridden the GS1200, but I reckon the 1200GS (like mine) is a nearer equivalent ot the Triumph. I agree its a lighter and possibly better made bike.
|
|
|
|
(The Maxi was BL's first metric design).
I didn't know that... can you tell me more?
6) VW was saved by the Golf. BL didn't have a 'Golf' to save them.
They had the Maxi (!) which could have been but for the penny-pinching during the design period and build quality - have you seen the drawings of how it should have looked if it wasn't for those doors!
Edited by b308 on 30/03/2008 at 18:12
|
|
The same goes for the Imp - should have been a great car, but the government of the day ensured it was built in Scotland, that and and the unions did for it.
|
The same goes for the Imp - should have been a great car, but the government of the day ensured it was built in Scotland, that and and the unions did for it.>>
Way too simple and wrong imo.
Same problems as BL really, under funded and badly managed, with unions adding the final straws!
BL kept the same car through different names (austin/morris/vanden plas/riley etc) and tried to "con" the public (the customer) into believing there was a difference. If they had produced different cars and equalled the designs and ideas of the cars flooding in then they might have stood a chance of keeping the customers.
ironically, when they teamed up with Honda they managed to build some good cars, but shot themselves in the foot with a rushed engine, rather than just simply using the Honda engine until they had sorted its development (which they never really did). At this stage the unions were into supporting the company but they were shafted (can I say that?) by the management and look where we are.
On top of that the Government looked the other way when they actualy had a range that could compete and let it sink. Northern crock qualified for nationalisation because its part of the financial sector. just proves we dont want industry!
it could have been avoided if good management had been available (and the unions tackled correctly), but too late! And there is a place for unions in wellmanaged busines imo!.
Bikes, well I think the buyers have more loyalty than us car buyers ever did.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 30/03/2008 at 20:08
|
"Northern crock qualified for nationalisation because its part of the financial sector. just proves we dont want industry"
Its a totally spurious comparison. If Northern Rock had sunk, most if not all of the UK's banking and financial infrastructure would have gone into total meltdown, you would have been buying bread with a wheelbarrow full of pounds. We have to get away from this comparison.
By the time Rover went bust it was not salvageable and the Billions of pounds required to support it would have been unlawful state aid anyway. There is no comparison with NR - none at all. NR was solvent when the plug was being pulled. Rover under any of its owners has not been solvent in a generation.
BMW saw that there was nothing for them here other than some 4x4 stuff, they moved on - quickly. That is why BMW is one of the most profitable car companies in the world and that's why Rover is a memory. The 75 was a good product, it deserved to do well but it was too little too late.
|
Its a totally spurious comparison. If Northern Rock had sunk, most if not all of the UK's banking and financial infrastructure would have gone into total meltdown, you would have been buying bread with a wheelbarrow full of pounds. We have to get away from this comparison.
And everything in this country would have gone too, I agree. Its all we have got left is our money pits!
|
|
|
|
