"Back to your point about China though"
C`mon you lot ;) I wrote a long post about China this morning and its gone untouched down the pipe :(
Regards
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B308 - You mean: "Most of the world's soot was created by Europe and North America until the 1950s, but since then the two regions have been overtaken in their contribution by nations in the tropics and the Far East", presumably.
I'm not sure quite how that affects the argument, unless you think it's OK because other people are producing more now! Do they not drive diesels in the Far East?
In any case, I was simply using the article to advance my case against the diesel, which has long offended my mechanical, aural and olfactory sensibilities, but like a lot of green propaganda, I'm not sure the article holds up too well anyway (hence the smiley).
I just find it fun to quote the latest environmental panic, safe in the knowledge that climate change has been happening since we had a climate and that global warming stopped in 1998...
Edited by J Bonington Jagworth on 26/03/2008 at 10:56
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Do they not drive diesels in the Far East?
Not that many no, and the same in some parts of the US where pollution is bad, so your dig at diesels is rather pointless and uninformed as well....
Lets face it all cars are polluting, petrol or diesel, but they are far outweighed by Power Stations, aircraft and general industry....
Perhaps I should highjack your thread to have a go at those petrol powered cars which poison me with benzine, a known causer of cancer.... but I'm not that petty....
Edited by b308 on 26/03/2008 at 15:21
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>>I wonder how many things in your household are made in China Billy?>>
It's really quite scary when you turn over almost every electrical/electronic appliance/device and examine the labels in molst of our clothing stores just how much stuff is made there. Cars will be next then what? Aircraft?
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I think that was my point Galad - I was not particulalrly trying to be smart.
On the subject of aircraft - well yes - Airbus are in the process of building a factory now and the Chinese are looking at their own aircraft.
The 3 main global aero engine suppliers, RR, P&W and GE all have a presence in China because they want access to the massive market opportunities - China are building 48 new airports over the next 15 years - about the time it takes us to build a new terminal at Heathrow.
It's quite sad really because the other point that struck me was the statement about grabbing the Chinese by the throat - and who exactly could do that - the UK ?
We could flex our industrial might maybe except our auto industry is owned by the Japs, Germans, Indians and Chinese - though we do have Morgan, our train building is owned by the Canadians or we buy them from Italy and Germany where they build inferior track to test them on because all the track in Germany is of too high a quality, we have no ship building to speak of, we rely on the French for our power stations now, we have some aerospace but RR has just announced 3 new factories being built in the US, Germany and Singapore, though we could deny them our transport intelligence which is the most expensive and least maintained in the western world, we could maybe deny them our television know how except our stations just lie to people so not quite world class, we could threaten them with our NHS - that would scare em with MSRA - trouble is the waiting list would be too long, the last real business we had with China on the world stage was when they said they are having Hong Kong back and we said OK - so I suppose that counts us out - who else might grab em by the throat - the US ? I think they have a little too much on their plate at the moment.
So the reality is the Chinese are here to stay and I say a good job too becuase who ever gets it's manufacturing strategy lined up correctly (like they have) will benefit greatly from it without the detriment to the environment - and just for info whilst they may not be the most perfect country in the world the Chinese actually have some very clever engineers and make us look like a 3rd world country in terms of investment in technolgy and infrastructure.
So that's it then China - stop producing soot or we stop sending Morgans over.
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"So that's it then China - stop producing soot or we stop sending Morgans over"
Brilliant ! :-)
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>> the US ? I think they have a little too much on their plate atthe moment.
That has been their problem judging by most of them!
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"which poison me with benzine"
A substitute for lead, as I recall.
Soot is also carcinogenic, of course, so it's a case of pots and kettles again. I accept I'm prejudiced, but I've spent too much of my life being reasonable.. :-)
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Soot is also carcinogenic of course so it's a case of pots and kettles again.
Of course petrols don't emit particulates (another name for soot!), do they.......
Get real JBJ, all internal combustian engines do, petrol more of the small stuff, diesel the larger ones, and they all cause problems...
Rather pointless argument actually as you'll have to admit sooner or later that they are both as bad as each other.....
Won't you! ;-) :-)
Edited by b308 on 26/03/2008 at 19:31
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Why do the world's developed countries never consider population conrol/reduction?
It would solve most of the world's problems.
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"It would solve most of the world's problems"
I'm afraid I'd want to see a stronger business case for compulsory birth control than that. The Chinese have tried it and it hardly won "idea of the year" at the Communist Party Annual Awards Ceremony.
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I'm afraid I'd want to see a stronger business case for compulsory birth control than that. The Chinese have tried it and it hardly won "idea of the year" at the Communist Party Annual Awards Ceremony.
Do away with those that are able to work, but don't who just ponce off of the rest of us.
MD
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"(another name for soot!)"
Another name for small particles, actually, so not necessarily soot, which in the context of the original article, is carbon black, whose blackness is the source of the problem. Petrol engines only produce soot when running rich - diesels produce it all the time.
I don't like diesels because the smell makes me nauseous, and the fumes are very noticeable when I'm riding behind one on my motorcycle. I accept that all IC engines pollute, although the contribution of motoring is pretty trivial compared to industry, and I don't buy into the current green hysteria, possibly because I'm old enough to remember the previous panic about the approaching Ice Age!
BTW, there was an interesting statistic quoted on Grand Designs tonight, that cement production is responsible for more CO2 production than air travel.
Not that any of this will matter when we get wiped out by a big, fat, wayward meteor...
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lets face it they could ban all cars around the world and we could go back to the horse and cart but you can garentee before long someone would bring out a report saying the earth is under threat from methane from 'horse emissions' LOL
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These days a modern diesel engine with a DPF cleans up the soot and hardly smell at all. A cold petrol engine throws out hydrocarbons via the exhaust which are not exactly healthy if/when you breath them in.
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