Speed limits of just 15 miles-per-hour are to be introduced on major roads in planned new towns across the country as part of an effort to reduce global warming.
More here:
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008...l
So says an article in todays Daily Telegraph.
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In all honesty what's so bad about that ? Towns and cities have become a nightmare as they were never designed with cars in mind, maybe a town designed around transport needs may actually work.........(well I can dream can't I)
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If I could sustain 15mph travelling through my local town I would be well pleased!
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I'd like to see the detail - regardless of how much of petrolhead one is this is the real politik and the real world.
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maybe a town designed around transport needs may actually work........
Many of the "new towns" of the sixties/seventies were designed to be so, but the planners lacked the foresight of an explosion in car ownership.
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Will we get that explosion again ? Doubt it unless someone comes up with cheap fuel.
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Will we get that explosion again ?
These plans will fail because many of the assumptions being made are likely to prove wrong. The whole idea of these eco-towns is wrong. But then as usual, planners and politicians cannot see the wood for the trees.
But on the other hand, if the UK population growth forecasts are right, than the 15mph limit will be unnecessary as it will just be a speed you won't be able to achieve most of the time anyway (like it is in London now ).
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So what do they do ? - Nothing ? Just carry on in a way which is unsustainable or try to do something ? Whichever way you look at it and from whatever angle we live in a world of diminishing resources and space. This is the end of the Golden Age of motoring, personalized transport is very quickly being rubbed out.....we were the lucky ones.
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1st thing to do if personalized transport is being rubbed out is to sort out public transport.
Unless you live in a city you cannot live without own transport!
Sort transport 1st and then design accordingly surely.
or just design a town with no cars allowed and hope it works. That sortof plan never has before though, so dont see why it will now.
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I think as always, the problem lies in the core thinking. People of this generation have their lives built around personal transportation - trying to do the weekly shop and lug it home on the bus is only for the fit and able, so no good for anyone who isnt ( with the elderly demographic incresing, important ).
The concentration should really be on making personal transportation swift and green and scrap public transport altogether as the whole point of cars is that they get you to where your going and public transport is woeful at this, so its not fit for purpose in anywhere other than a town centre.
Where town planning could help is if they put local shops and supermarkets within a certain radius of housing, that would certainly help, especially if they had all kinds of stores in one huge complex so you only needed to go to one place for everything and never more than a mile away.
I am looking to buy a house within two miles of where my misses works as it means she can walk there, leave the car at home and we dont need to go far to get everything we need ( works at supermarket on an out of town outlet site ).
Making cars travel at 15 mph would increase emissions most likely and it is so often underestimated just how attached people are to their cars with no consideration as to why that may be so.
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I think as always the problem lies in the core thinking. People of this generation have their lives built around personal transportation - trying to do the weekly shop and lug it home on the bus is only for the fit and able so no good for anyone who isnt ( with the elderly demographic incresing important ).
Most of the big supermarkets round our way run a home delivery service, so perhaps this is not a problem??
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Making cars travel at 15 mph would increase emissions most likely
And noise, two kinds of pollution in one.
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1st thing to do if personalized transport is being rubbed out is to sort out public transport.
Starting with making sure that weekend engineering works are finished on time. Grrrr.
I wonder how many other countries would tolerate such nonsense. I got to my Tube station this morning - "Sorry, the line's suspended because the holiday weekend engineering work at Wembley has over-run."
Oh that's OK then, I'll just levitate to work.
This is why people drive. If your car had the reliability level of public transport, you'd shoot it.
Cheers
DP
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So what do they do ? - Nothing ? Just carry on in a way which is unsustainable or try to do something ?
Here are some of my ideas:
First find out what the major contributors to the real problem. IMO, in most cases, it will boil down to consumerism. So then to tackle it, look at the least cost most benefit options first.
Eg. Reduction of energy consumption and conservation of energy at the point of use.
Reduction of product consumption and prolonging life of existing and new products (make it inordinately expensive to buy new products or to scrap old products, and make it cheaper to repair/prolong life of existing products).
Remove the need for people to travel for anything but the most essential purposes in life (eg. for access to hospitals).
For the motoring industry, introduce compulsory 10 year no quibble warranties by the manufacturer, and 10 year service inclusive contracts, limited to the first 150,000 miles. MOTs to be included in the contract. This measure alone will see the waste due to the scam exposed in: www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/faq.htm?id=92
In the UK, do something drastic about this problem which alone wasted tonnes of fuel:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/faq.htm?id=99
On a worldwide equal basis, tax everything heavily - except the basic allowances for food, water, heating and shelter. These allowances to be universal and tradeable (just as the carbon emissions allowances are traded internationally now).
Edited by jbif on 24/03/2008 at 21:23
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at the moment the motorist is a cash cow... and there's no joined up thinking of the bigger picture
if you genuinely want car users out of their cars onto public transport, then make public transport more attractive i.e. safer, more affordable, easy parking nearby (for those that have no choice but to drive some of it) etc
until there is cheap/free parking right next to public transport options, with guards/conductors in the car parks and on the buses/trains a huge proportion of the travelling public will steer well clear of public transport...because at the moment the yob wins
probably not a motoring issue but the pemissive 60's and the problems inherent from that have bred a generation of people who don't care about their fellow human beings.. and until that's sorted out i'm staying in my own safety zone
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"probably not a motoring issue but the pemissive 60's and the problems inherent from that have bred a generation"
It seems to me its more the CPS and court system. The `old school` Local Authority Court Officers (typically Ex Forces) and the freedom of a Social worker to present a Social Inquiry Report, that would (where indicated) give a real deterrent were taken away by a system that allowed (forced) working through a graduated tariff system ( as a report recommendation) that increased criminality.
The social situation (or at least the propensity towards it) has always been there, but for some people the threat of a punishment must always be there as its the only thing that holds behaviour in check.
Most of the 60`s Hippies moved into respectable working norms, but personality disorder is widespread and there is not enough of a deterrent in the current system to change behaviour that results from it.
As you say, and I totally agree, a good reason not to use public transport.
regards
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until there is cheap/free parking right next to public transport options with guards/conductors in the car parks and on the buses/trains a huge proportion of the travelling public will steer well clear of public transport>>
This is a massive part of the problem. If I get the train to work, and it's raining so I have to drive to the station I have to pay an extra £3.50, which makes driving cheaper overall (never mind preferable).
Near work there is a tube station (Queens Park) that used to have free parking round the park. The council, in its wisdom brought in charges to "deter commuters". What's that all about? They should be providing more parking not restricting it.
Mind you, in the paper this weekend there is a story of how extra carriages on a Virgin train line have been delayed, and so in the meantime fares are to rise "to deter people from using the train".
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Are we not slowly heading towards (are we not already 2/3rds the way there?!) total control of our motoring lives?
How long before all vehicles are tagged electronically and for every offence we commit (no matter how petty) we get an automated fine in the post?
Do we now have a Government that is openly targeting motorists as a source of easy revenue with (amongst others) hefty fuel costs and vehicle taxes?
Will this 15mph limit just end up another way to raise revenue?
What affect will this 15mph limit have on transport costs to haulage companies that deliver our consumables in to these proposed areas?
Edited by Tron on 25/03/2008 at 09:59
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Are we not slowly heading towards (are we not already 2/3rds the way there?!) total control of our motoring lives?
Can you explain how we are 2/3 controlled? As far as I can see we can go where we want, when we want with no restrictions except such things as speed limits and one way systems which have been around for decades..
There many be more speed restrictions and cameras to stop speeding, but other than the cost of fuel which may restrict some people I can't see how we are any different to where we were 40 years ago...
The only thing controlling where we go and how quickly we get there is the sheer volume of traffic rather than speed restrictions...
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Has anyone actually been fined for doing 25mph in a 20mph zone?
How many speed cameras are there on 20mph or lower zones?
Point is that most drivers will slow to 20 - 25mph in areas where many people are crossing or children are playing, but at night or when quiet most drivers in my area do 30ish in these areas regardless of the posted 20 mph speed limit.
Once you get below 20 mph speed limits, then Horses, Skateboarders and Cyclists are going to pick up more fines as well...(How do you fit a speedo to a horse?)...or are they exempt because they are carbon neutral? In which case Can I do 20mph in a Prius because of "0" actual emissions at low speed (yes I know it is battery power generated by petrol earlier on)?
The only solution must be to vote these people out of office whoever they are.
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I would havet hought that, if I was to do 15mph, then I could not do it at a reasonable engine speed, so would probalby rev higher than I would at, say, 40mph. So that increases emissions, and possibly fuel consumption....
What a hare-brained idea!
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I shall be treating towns with 15mph speed limits in the same way as I-and many people-treat towns/cities with parking charges- avoiding if at all possible, and of course taking my disposable income elsewhere. If it drives some businesses to the wall, hard lines.
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Which is the whole point....
Except for the loss of business of course...
But then others may come there because its nice and quiet and you can walk round in safety!
Edited by b308 on 25/03/2008 at 16:55
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nice and quiet and you can walkround in safety!
Can't say I feel especially threatened walking round in London. Where do you live b308, Baghdad?
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Is everyone missing the fact that 15mph is a really, really inefficient speed for a car? I can't think of a car that can cruise economically at 15mph.
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I can't think of a car that can cruise economically at 15mph.
I used to have one. Then I got my first push bike and never used my pedal car again!
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G-Whiz doesn't seem to be able to manage much more... but of course you are right CJay. In fact somewhere around 50 is the most economical speed for most cars, which is why the true and authentic A-road mimser, who never goes over 45, ought to be a seriously endangered species. For some reason it isn't though.
I suspect the authorities of systematic mimser-hugging.
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Can't say I feel especially threatened walking round in London. Where do you live b308 Baghdad?
Just making the point that if I want to wander round the shops or sights in a town or city its a lot nicer if there are either no cars, or they are going slow...
The point of a 15mph speed limit is surely twofold - firstly to make the place safer for pedestrians, secondly to put people off driving there and for them to use other means for getting round...
Looking at some of the comments, sounds like it would work!
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No doubt you are right b308, but quite frankly I don't mind when there are cars about and I don't mind if they're all doing three times the speed limit. No doubt too that a time will come when I can't assess speed or distance properly so won't be able to cross the road safely unless everyone is mimsing at some pathetic walking pace. But that time hasn't come yet. It's children and idiots I worry about, not people who are merely hostile to the automobile (albeit in some circumstances and not others).
Surely pedestrians are quite safe enough already unless the drivers are misbehaving in some very serious way?
I like your suggestion that people should use some other way of getting about.
POGO STICK CITY!
SKATEBOARDVILLE!
UNICYCLE PROVINCE!
WARNING: Visitors should be aware that locomotion in Peatown must be on hands and knees, and those not pushing a pea along with their noses are liable to heavy fines or imprisonment.
Edited by Lud on 25/03/2008 at 19:50
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I'd actually prefer a pedestrianised town/city centre with normal speed limits elsewhere - the 15mph to me sounds like a bad compromise...
Incidentally, I've found that my two legs work perfectly ok for the one mile walk into town... but plenty of drivers don't, luckily the centre of our town is pedestrianised to all they do is sit frustrated on the ringroad whilst I get down and back home before they've evn parked! ;)
Edited by b308 on 26/03/2008 at 10:04
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Since manufacturing a ton of concrete generates a ton of CO2, how can the Government justify building ANY new towns, whilst taxing motorists out of their cars to save CO2?
15mph speed limits as a means of saving the planet from climate change seems stupid in comparison.
Besides which, digging up plants and trees to build houses also reduces the ability of the environment to absorb CO2.
Sounds like Mickey Mouse policy to me.
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