I read it when the previous version was up albeit for a very short time - Violet's cars or something like that. I looked at it again tonight and to be honest it looks and sounds like something out of the 1970s written by someone trying too hard to hide their patronising comments behind being helpful and vaguely humourous.
My view is - if its useful it should be on the main site and if its not it shouldn't be on the site.
I'm no PC new man in touch with his feminine side (thankfully ) but I'm quite happy to laugh at or sympathise with PG's or PU's exploits irrespective of their real, perceived or internet gender.
Thankfully the world has moved on, or at least most of it has
Edited by Webmaster on 21/03/2008 at 21:31
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I'm no PC new man in touch with his feminine side (thankfully ) but I'm quite happy to laugh at or sympathise with PG's or PU's exploits irrespective of their real perceived or internet gender.
Same here - also, if you mean that the person I think of as "PU" is female, then well! I had no idea!
Sex, BTW, not "gender", which is a gramatticle construct.
Thankfully the world has moved on or at least most of it has
Lots of it superficially seems to have - however, looking at some comments here, as well as the Joneses over the road, and many acquaintances - there is still a degree of difference between the sexes.
Thank goodness, in some ways!
Edited by Webmaster on 21/03/2008 at 21:31
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Cripes ! Leave my gender out of it.
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"PU" is female
>> Cripes ! Leave my gender out of it.
So you don't deny it?
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my gender
Argh! The G-word again (mumbles: Feminine, masculine, neuter, ..)
Really, why do people get so excited about catering for differences? Should there be a site telling men how to clean the bathroom, do the ironing, a guide to home decor, how to make the Sunday dinner, or look after babies, I doubt that there'd be a murmur, unless it was a sigh of relief from somewhere.
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I would have used the word sex (rather than Gender), but assumed incorrectly that it was blocked by the swear filter .........
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Not being one to take life too seriously any more ( I have my own reasons for that ) I do, however, think there is a serious point lurking in here.
I feel that as the current temporary tenants of this orb that we in most western cultures at least have made huge and positive progress towards the desegregation of the genders in the past 50 years in particular. There is though, still a way to go and even the most lighthearted and well intentioned enclaves of gender segregation other than those necessary for reasons of privacy and decorum do nothing to further this. I suppose I don't especially mind what "club" people are drawn to no matter how they are physically configured and if this sub division proves popular with women then fine and good. I guess I am just mildly disappointed that the issue even arose in the first place. I see this site as a meeting place and information exchange for car / driving enthusiasts pure and simple and am just a bit puzzled as to why it might have been felt appropriate to do this.
Anyway, now that it is done, let's wish it well and watch with interest to see if it develops the following and support it seeks.
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Sex, BTW, not "gender", which is a gramatticle construct.
"gramatticle" - is that to bypass the swearfilter "testical"
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Right - some order please. Discuss the merits or otherwise of the new feature within the terms
and conditions of the site.
Thanks
Webmaster.
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Who's 'Webmaster'?
I'm 57 years old, been around a bit, and don't react kindly to being ordered about.
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"don't react kindly to being ordered about. "
Shut up and get the washing-up done, and when you've done that........
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>Shut up and get the washing-up done<
I did it about an hour ago...;-)
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Webmaster is who he says he is. The person(s) responsible for keeping order for this site! It's certainly not someone posturing.
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Stephen Khoo
www.khoosys.net
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I am not discounting what advice is under this section. It looks sound to me from quick glance but why write it to "appeal to women". It should apply to all and therefore why a separate section with a female slant? If this is sexist it's because it's anti-male. And then the use of pink.
I like the idea of a section appealing to novice buyers/owners etc. But make it a separate section that is appealing to male and female. So words like:
"The glove box is not just for gloves: We have to admit, girls, we do love clutter and our handbags will be a good demonstration of this fact. So it comes as no surprise that when choosing a new vehicle, we look for copious amounts of storage space to accommodate all our precious belongings."
Maybe to be avoided?
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Discuss the merits or otherwise of the new feature
Looks OK - I'd be inclined to gently emphasise "our new resident champion for the female motorist". Not sure about the colour, it's a bit "Sheila's Wheels-ish" to me. It's good to see that there's an easy conduit into "this" site.
Edited by FotheringtonThomas on 19/03/2008 at 21:10
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I genuinely thought it was a wind-up at first. Perhaps there should also be separate sites for different sexual orientations, skin colours or religious leanings. Any suggestions? :-)
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So if we all register to Ultraviolet we'll all get free puncture repair kits?
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Oh dear.
Having like so many here assumed it was a joke, I set to and read the articles, such as they are.
Most of them are gender neutral, and don't seem to have much relevance to the sex of the reader.
One of them was a bit tasteless for me, but then I'm old fashioned.
And two of them contain language that seems to have come from the pen of an ardent feminist from twenty years ago.
Now, it may be that whoever has written these genuinely thinks this will appeal to women, and somehow make the whole site more attractive to them. That's a laudable aim but I would find it surprising if that is the result. But what do I know, I'm only a bloke.
But for my part, this is divisive and unnecessary.
Disappointed - I expected better of HJ. Not for the idea, but for the execution of the concept - thin articles written in two minutes with no research by someone with an acid tongue and axe to grind don't have a place on a site packed with useful information research over many years.
This simply creates barriers and reinforces gender stereotypes, and seems, to me, pointless.
For what it's worth, I'd keep the "good" snippets about GAP insurance and dealing with salesmen, lose the tacky stuff, definitely lose the rude and patronising stuff, and merge what's left into the main site.
Just my sixpenn'orth.
Edited by Dipstick on 19/03/2008 at 21:58
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Hmmm. Tried to keep an open mind but..
Badly misjudged IMO - Mrs Manatee wouldn't thank me for pointing her to that!
A superficial and patronising cocktail of advertorial and regurgitated press releases; an article that could only be of interest to a statistician with a prurient interest in sex; full of mangled prose and random punctuation. Best of all, a puff for a book on passing your driving test from woman who took 23 years to pass.
Back to the drawing board.
Let's hope we've been had and all will be revealed on the 1st of April.
Edited by Manatee on 19/03/2008 at 21:58
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Agree with manatee, puts it into words better than I can.
just glorified adverts aimed at girlies !
I know a lot of women who know (about cars) as much, more than, or less than, than men. Do they want advice, help or adverts?
help and advice then forums such as the back room (and its not the only 1) are good. Ultra violet? Well I for one won't recommend it to anyone! Point blank!
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Surely it's a wind-up for a 1st April debut.
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Doesn`t it breach the Sex Discrimination Act?
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"Sad", "patronising" ... Oh, come on. What's wrong with a successful commodity expanding its appeal? Top Gear (entertaining and informative, in that order) is going for worldwide branding. Honest John (invaluably informative and often entertaining) is going for a wider market. I wish it well and hope it works. Hope more of the truly fairer gender will post their thoughts here!
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Even "within the terms and conditions of this site" it must be a wind up for april 1 surely? SWMBO has read the post and walked away muttering!
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Why so much negativity? Let's have more women backroomers after all. Shock, horror -women are different from men - whether it's nesting, dressing, socialising or driving.
I hope it tempts some ladies on board.
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I agree with you BBD.
Interestingly:
1) over 90% of the comments here are from males.
2) Ultraviolet - section conceived by women, styled by women, written by women, targeted at women.
3) men are free to look in there - after all they might like to know what women (in general) want in cars.
My hunch:
- not much to do with alloy wheels, horse power, engine spec and other technical gizmos.
- more about colour, style, running costs, deals etc. and how well it works for them - logistically that is. e.g. questions like 'can I fit buggy in it easily?', 'can all the kids get in?', 'where can I get one from cheaply with little hassle?', 'cheaper insurance?' and so on
Of course there are women that are interested in all the tech stuff and so on, but I suspect they are not the majority. This forum usage makes the point. I don't think most women have the time or energy - after running jobs, kids, the household, cooking and doing all the other "ironic women stereotype" comments mentioned above, to get all excited about half the things that are discussed here. The comment "SWMBO has read the post and walked away muttering" shows that SWMBO isn't on here herself making the point for women; it's HWMBO!
I was in hospital the other day and to kill time flicked through a few of the "lads mags".
They had sections on glamourous girls, sex, gadgets .. oh I thought "what else could they put in there - oh yes, they need computer games, consoles, football (sport), yes and of course... cars". Flicking through the rest of it showed my predictions to be correct. The next lads mag had the same mix, but different ratios.
In contrast, flicking through the women's magazines showed articles on lifestyle, recipes, houses, gardening, health and so on.
So what sells?
I tend to be less blokey myself, so find the lads mags boring and prefer what women would tend to read.
The challenge will be in attracting more women to use a site like this in a format that is better suited to them.
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Stephen Khoo
www.khoosys.net
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its all down to gender/genetics... Darwin proved in his famous paper in 1887 that the reason womens feet are considerably smaller than mens feet is wholly contributed to the fact that they can get closer to the kitchen sink :)
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I hope all the new female contributors realise they'll be ordered sharply to 'get back within the terms and conditons of the site' as soon as a bit of harmless banter develops.
Or is it only a certain type of man that responds to this sort of nanny discipline?
Or - was the contribution from 'webmaster' a bit of hurt ego after his (or her) new idea got a slagging?
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There are quite frequently diktats to behave, not swear, keep on-topic, discuss motoring things only (except in the IHAQ threads). Threads are locked or deleted, and edits made. It's all part and parcel of ordered participation. This isn't an un-moderated site or Usenet group.
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Or - was the contribution from 'webmaster' a bit of hurt ego after his (or her) new idea got a slagging?
The webmaster and HJ publisher have no connection with one another.
The webmaster helps out from time to time (mainly making forum annoucements, editing a few posts and the like) but will on the odd occasion will step in and help restore order if and when necessary.
HJ Publisher's role is to develope and announce new ideas for other parts of the site outside of the backroom.
DD.
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Stephen, can you explain the title for me? I thought it was sort of asking for jokey comments (from we wags), and that I'd be the butt of some joke by treating it seriously - but obviously not!
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I can see the Sheila's Wheels ads already!
Will the backroom become the "Men's Room?". Will other supposed minorities be catered for? Am looking forward to HJ Devolution for the Scots and the Welsh. Perhaps even a section for Polish bus drivers?
Maybe we are also a little Radio 4 sometimes? So look forward to downmarket section aimed at the Chavs. Could then be financed with mobile phone adverts.
Seriously, I can't see that it matters that much. Just hope that the female members of the BR continue to add their pennyworth along with the blokes.
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2) Ultraviolet - section conceived by women styled by women written by women targeted at women.
-------------- Stephen Khoo
I certainly don't have a problem with a women's section. And I freely grant that I am not in the target group. My admittedly negative comments were directed at the quality of this initial offering, which regardless of style, or its target audience, doesn't really match up to the quality and usefulness of the site as a whole. I can't believe the author of those pieces is any of the respected female motoring journalists that I can think of.
It's like delivering the Independent with a free copy of "Hello" for the wife. My wife is female, not vacuous. Perhaps when it finds its feet it will improve.
At the risk of offending by generalisation, I accept that on average women might be more interested in buggy space than horsepower, but surely the answer to that is to include a section on this type of thing in future car reviews to widen the appeal beyond its present boundaries?
I think its good for the site to evolve, I'll be only too happy to acknowledge UV's success if it works, but I doubt it will unless it takes a more intelligent approach.
Just my view - I'm not trying to win an argument.
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I think you make some very valid points, so no argument here ;-)
I am sure that those with input will take note and that UV will evolve in the future. Your comment about a section in car reviews also sounds sensible to me, but a place where all this stuff is collected for that target group is also important.
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Stephen Khoo
www.khoosys.net
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So what do HJ Publisher and webmaster think of the responses?
(If one may respectfully ask)
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The webmaster wishes to remain impartial. My role is within the backroom forum only; dealing with the occasional edit, email queries regarding registrations, forgotten passwords and the like, and helping out with the moderating now and again. The rest of the site is outside of my domain.
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do you think the webmaster is also called stig?
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do you think the webmaster is also called stig?
i have an image of the webmaster sitting on a leather chair stroking a cat (felix domesticus
) not an exaust pipe one (motoring link) with a blacked out monocle
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Yes well - can we get back on topic then ?
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I think that it's a lovely shade of mauve.
So there.
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Can HJ Publisher come back and interact with us to perhaps enhance our perceptions of the subject in discussion?
Respectfully (expect that back too)
Oilrag
Edited by oilrag on 21/03/2008 at 06:28
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`laughing` he's got it easy, then, I'd say
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"... a series of how to videos to help the female motorist with basic car maintenance."
Beyond parody.
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"Beyond parody."
Stop tempting me ;)
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Martyn, thanks for that. See you in another 4 years time!
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