Hi, this is my first post on this site and would appreciate any info you can give, I have read a lot of problems regarding the 307 HDI fap problem but not found much relating to the 206.
My missus drives a 2005 206 1.6 HDI and in the last couple of years have a numerous warnings come up on the dash all have been sorted under warranty, the latest to appear was UNBLOCK DIESEL FILTER (I now know through this site 100% more info about this system, than I did on Friday and more than the sales man at the time new) there has been no previous message of ANTI POLLUTION ADDITIVE LOW I would just like to get the facts right before I take it any further. This car has only just done 20,000 miles and from what info I have been able to obtain the FAP system is to be serviced @ 50,000 now the dealer has told the wife it needs additive topping up and a forced regeneration doing, at a cost to me of £140.00. Now by admission the car does not do many long trips and is not filled to the neck every time it gets low on fuel, so the top and bottom of my query is can a dealer ask me to pay for this work while it is still under warranty and is way below the 50,000 mile service cycle. (is it correct as I have read, that taking it on a long with a bit of right foot down, it will do a forced regeneration this way)
Thanks in advance
Edited by Pugugly on 02/03/2008 at 11:31
|
Have you ever had an additive low message?
Has the dealer plugged in and read the additive level?
These cars are not really suitable for use on short, low speed journeys. And if you check the peugeot web site there is a message on there warning about this - if the dealer didnt draw this to your attention then I would be arguing for them to do this for free.
As I understand it the blocked filter message is generated by the pressure sensor which measures the difference in pressure across the FAP. It is now saying that the filter is getting blocked.
Personally I would try doing a motorway run - I think you have to do above 50mph for 20 minutes to get the regen to kick in.
Screwloose is the expert though.
|
|
|
Hi, thanks for reply, no there has never been a message up for additive low warning just the unblock diesel filter warning. Can you give me the link to the website regarding the warning about short tripping with this type of engine.
Thanks
Geran
|
I've had a quick look but I cant find it again.
I saw it when I was looking up details on MPVs. I seem to remember there was a section on FAP/pollution and it was in there - but the web sites change all the time of course.
|
Thanks anyway, the car is going down the motorway for a week with me I do over 25,000 miles a year so I will see what happens, I have now found what I believe is the tank that holds the fluid it probably looks a quarter full, what is more annoying is this car is on Peugeot's passport scheme, and for this car at the time limited to 30,000 over three years, surely if a sales rep in the no he would have mentioned about short tripping, though as I mentioned earlier he new as much as me about the fap at the time.
I would also like to confirm is possible that the additive is registered via the fuel cap filler i e if you short trip and only put a tenner or so in a week does this mean it puts in the additive like it's going out of fashion?
Geran
|
Geran
I'm surprised that it's as low as that after only 20,000; the fluid should last 50K or more. It does dose the tank at every fill over 7 litres, so that may be the cause as it's not a terribly accurate process.
As for the warning itself; it would appear that there is no shortage of fluid, more a lack of opportunity for regeneration; so that M-way trip may well sort it out - until it does it again. [Which it will, with increasing frequency, as the ash residue builds up.] If it doesn't clear it; then it will need a forced regeneration and topping up the Eolys would indeed be wise.
Peugeot must have been having a brainstorm in only offering the 9HZ in what is essentially a town car. Most of their models allow you an option of a non-FAP version. Is this a UK-spec car?
As they have mis-sold you the car [it's clearly not fit for your purpose] try and get them to trade it back against a petrol one.
|
|
|
Thanks for the reply, we have had the car now for over 2.5yrs the chances of my dealer swapping this motor is very remote, though my next step is to write a letter to the managing director of my local dealer stating only the facts (this is why forums such as this are excellent for good info) it is pointless going in half cocked ranting down the phone it won't get me anywhere, but a well written letter(I'll get the missus to do that bit) stating the facts and as you mention sold a car not fit for it's purpose may cut some sway and they can stand the bill.
To be honest the car would be changed within in next 5mths anyway but that's not the point, it has had several other codes pop up in the last 18mths that the dealer had to sort out, these being anti pollution fault around three times and the latest unblock diesel filter, even had to go in for a new ball joint last week (done on warranty) don't have any of these problems with my trusty old 2002 306 HDI estate, doing 25'000 a year went through MOT on Fri with no problems.
I was thinking of changing the 206 for a 407 SW for myself, I assume this also has the FAP system?
Geran
|
Geran
All of my info sources list only the 9HZ and the RHR diesels for the 407 - both FAP-only.
Less of an issue on a high-mileage car; but beware the awful fuel consumption of Euro-4 diesels. That's going to be a real shock after a 306. [Not to mention the added cost of FAP-and-fill at 50K.]
|
|
|
Hey Screwloose, poor fuel consumption you say how poor? I thought with all this EU carry on diesel motors were expected to produce good miles to the gallon, not to get worse.
I have owned Peugeot diesels for over 15yrs this is my second 306 HDI estate the first one had been chipped by a previous owner with over 150,000 on the clock, (and this I did not realise until it was written of a year ago) as I replaced it with same model two years newer and less than half the others mileage, when I took it for a test drive I thought "this can't be getting full throttle" but oh yes it was the fact it was 2.0ltr engine pushing an ore inspiring 90bhp said it all, I soon picked up a plug and play type chip unit and after a little trial and error setting it up it has run like a dream and 12mths on no great noticeable detriment to fuel consumption, all depends on how much you put your foot down. (by the way at 40yrs of age a boy racer I'm not) but out of second gear you would not know it had a turbo.
Maybe it is time for me to change my manufacture preference.
Geran
|
Geran
At a guess; about 2/3rds of what your 306 does - at best. More emissions clutter equals far worse economy.
A lot of my work now is checking for non-existant faults on lease cars because the lessees have thrown them back at the company complaining of awful [often 30s] fuel consumption. They just will not accept that there's nothing wrong and it's ruining my business, as there's nothing to fix and thus charge for.
|
|
|
Screwloose
Glad you mentioned that as my next step was to look into leasing a car for me, due to the
mileage I do, would I have same trouble with all manufacturers nowadays? what about Vauxhall, Renault, Toyota or even Skoda?
Been in touch with local dealer today they have offered to do forced re-gen for good will but Peugeot would not give permission to top up the additive, stating it was a service item "not at 20,000miles it ain't I have now obtained there number for peugeot and will call them in the morning.
Spoke to another dealer today asking for independent advise service engineer who had been there two years had only ever had to refill two motors in that time, he told me he had one in at the moment with code for low additive warning and even after reset he said there was plenty left in the container, the car had done 71,000, he also informed me they have had a couple of codes coming up about the additive and they were put down to faulty sensors to do with filler cap.
Thanks
Geran
Edited by geran on 03/03/2008 at 20:59
|
Geran
Cap magnets are a known problem; the additive quantity won't re-set if the cap/flap code is present.
All Euro-4 cars are disappointing in respect of economy; overall, they're now dearer to run than petrol and you should only consider one if you like the characteristics of diesels. It may still be possible to get a non-DPF model of some makes; but you'd have to be very sure, as many salesmen tell lies.....
Get the re-gen done FOC and bin it before it runs out completely.
|
|
|
Screwloose
Taken it up as an issue with my dealer who approached Peugeot to have it regenerated and topped up under warranty, they said no as it was a service item.
Have spoken to dealer again and they have agreed as good will gesture to do regen for free and only charge me for the additive it may need @£25.00 per litre, I have since been in touch with Peugeot direct and have put it to them I want it all doing for free, will find out answer no later than Fri aft.
Service Manager at the dealer (a woman) and I am not being sexist admitted today until my previous conversation with her she did not even no what the additive actually did.
In the next couple of years I would imagine you won't be able to give these motors away due to the hidden extra costs involved (when it becomes public knowledge).
Geran
|
In the next couple of years I would imagine you won't be able to give these motors away due to the hidden extra costs involved (when it becomes public knowledge).
I'll keep to my (old school) 2.0 HDI with 110 horses and no fancy gubbins!
|
|
|
|
Yep me too, my other motor is a 306 2.0Ltr HDI and touch wood has never let me down, long may it live.
|
It's no coincidence that marginal motorists are paying surprising sums for old Peugeots etc. A tidy 205 diesel, that was worth not much more than scrap a few years ago, will sell very easily now.
The word is spreading that these complex cars are throwaway items.
|
|
|
Hi Screwloose, been reading a few of your replies to other members on this forum, you certainly sound like one of the good guys good on ya. Will let you no what reply is from Peugeot warranty, either way will take up offer from dealer regen top up and punt the car on ASAP.
Geran
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I am not sure that it matters whether the car is a 206 or a 307 - the engines are broadly the same. Is yours a 90 bhp or a 100? I have a 3 year old 307 (110) which seems to do a lot of sitting on my drive when I get home with the cooling fan running for about 10 minutes, usually when I have driven sedately home from work in the dark! This is something to do with the Particle filter, I don't know what, but I have been assured it is normal! I have 44K recorded and have not yet seen any "Additive Low" warning nor indeed any other engine related warnings to date. Screwloose or some other guru certainly mentioned a variation on the Italian tune-up and it looks as though you have found that comment.
|
|
|
The missus 206 1.6HDI has yet again come up with the code "Unblock Diesel Filter" this is on a car still under warranty with 21,000 miles on the clock it's at least the fifth time it has happened.
After the missus nearly ripped the woman's head off at reception when she asked "and how would you like to pay, it probably just needs another top up of the additive" It's under warranty you stupid c#w was her reply.
Two months ago I eventually managed to get them to refill the additive reservoir and only pay for the fluid, it took two full liters on a tank that only takes three liters to fill it and this was at 19,500 miles, this is due to the fact it only really does short trips and was getting £10 / £15 a week of fuel meaning every week the filler cap was opened and fuel added it would register and put in an amount of the very expensive additive.
With the above hopefully sorted, now to the filter after applying some kind of pressure test and the reading taken from the exhaust it was determined the filter was blocked as the millibar reading was three times over what it should have been, now that's all good and well but my question to the mechanic was " what has caused it " on such a low mileage vehicle, well maybe I find out next week when it goes in for the work doing.
Geran
|
due to the fact it only really does short trips
Geran
In that case; the car was mis-sold as it is not - and never will be - fit for that purpose.
Unless a FAP-equipped car does regular, unbroken, high-speed runs; the FAP will continually block. The dealers can carry out a forced re-gen to burn-down the soot load a bit [unless the coucil has been round with a noise-nuisance control order] but that will only be a short-term fix.
As you've found; the FAP and it's additive are consumables and thus not covered under warranty as this is not a manufacturing defect.
|
As you say screwloose, IMO it is due to short tripping, though my dealer and others do nor recognise the problem with an association of short running, I put this down to the fact most diesel owners purchased the vehicle for it's greater MPG and higher mileage runs, and probably have not encountered this problem as much with high mileage users.
They carried out a forced re-gen on it a couple of months back, and as you say it is only a short term fix, as they are going to fit a new filter (which I presume is housed in the front pipe) for free next week I will keep it no more than 6mths and trade it in.
Geran
|
i have a problem with my FAp (i think). i bought my car just under a year ago. the fan came on once a week at the start but now its coming on every journey! i use it to get to work and back (25 miles each way). there has been no warnings or anything...just sounds like a 747 when i turn the engine off!
i have been thinking of selling it for a bit and think i am gonna push on and get rid. obviously i need to sort this out before i sell...can anyone tell me if it is a blocked FAP how much pug charge to unblock?? or will a long motorway run clear it?
|
pedro
What car; year; exact engine code?
Why do you think the cooling fan is caused by a FAP problem?
|
hi
its 2005 206 1.6 hdi (quiksilver)
been told that as i only do short runs the FAP cycle doesnt complete and has caused it to block. just seen pug and they said all i need need to do is go for a long drive and should clear.
still gonna sell it though.
|
|
|
|
Hi,
I'm no expert but the fan situation in my experience does not appear related to the "Unblock Diesel filter" problem we have had with the fap system
Every now and again the fan comes on the missus 206 hdi and as you mention sometimes runs on after the engine is turned off I only assume this is part of it's cooling cycle and not Fap related.
Geran
PS Dealer has now fitted a new fap filter under warranty, so lets see what happens.
PPS I would not call a journey of 25miles each way short tripping, our problem is the car only runs around town each day
Edited by geran on 18/06/2008 at 19:38
|
just been to pug and had the diagnostic check. engine all fine. they explained the fap system and its as i thought. everytime 100-250 miles the fap burns off the excess diesel particles. if you are on a journey of upto 1 hour you wont notice it, but they said if you are doing 30 mins or under the chances are the cycle wont have completed. this then causes the fan to kick in when the engine is turned off (they said fan should only be on for upto 10 mins) Problem comes when you start car next time as the unfinished cycle will start straight away and so if you are again on a short run it will again not finish. ultimately will lead to blocked filter. HOWEVER all you need to do is go for a long and fast drive (60mph) and it will clear.
hope this helps people!
snipquote!
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 19/06/2008 at 14:44
|
Hey, good to no your motor is OK, the missus was bought through Peugeot's Passport scheme and it finishes in end of Sep, but with all the problems I have had with this one it has put me right of Peugeot's, and I've bought them for well over 10yrs.
Geran
|
|
|
|
|
|
