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You could certainly turn of every other lamp after midnight without too many problems in most areas.
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They're not all turned off,even in Maldon.
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There is so much waste light in the south east corner of this country that it is difficult to get a good look at the heavens through a telescope except in very clear weather, which is much rarer than people think. Even a thin haze in the air, almost invariably present, reflects this waste light and makes faint objects invisible to the naked eye.
On the other hand London with all the lights off would take a bit of getting used to.
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I would be nice to be able to see the stars properly without having to travel miles into the countryside.
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Seem to recall a thead a while back, where a council wanted to switch off the lights citing light pollution or global warming. Bottom line was they needed to save money.
Edited by Round The Bend on 06/02/2008 at 16:30
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Here it is www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=57368&...f
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When I were a lad - streetlights WERE switched off except those at junctions.
Such a move is a good idea on the surface but might require repeal of the legislation allowing parking at night without lights.
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When I were a lad - streetlights WERE switched off except those at junctions. switched off by turning the gas valve with a long pole?
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In my area where there are more road humps per km than just about anywhere in the UK, there are illuminated signs at EVERY road junction warning of humps 200yds This Way and 150yds That Way.
The lights are on 24/7. I've called the council and their database didn't even show them at all - they didn't seem to know they had them. As it wasn't on the computer they said they could do no more to help me - I gave up.
That was 2 years ago. Every now and then since, when I spot one again and I feel suitably green and ever so environmental I'm minded to call again. But then I just decide it's too much bother - I've got a life to get on with.
PS If they don't know they've got them I suppose I could connect up to the one outside my house and reduce my electricity bill by a fair bit!
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why not have the street lights turned out after midnight. Or 10pm, or whatever.
Mapmaker is one year too late with his proposal.
www.cprebucks.org.uk/news-releases/14Feb07.html
"14 February 2007
BUCKS ROAD LIGHTS SWITCH-OFF WELCOMED
Starting next month, the Council will switch off street lighting at 10 rural or semi-rural sites across the County, for a trial period. The Council?s stated aim is to reduce energy costs, with the additional benefits of reducing light pollution and carbon emissions. "
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I'm sure someone with more knowledge(or more anal than me), will be able to find the facts and figures regarding accidents on motorways where there are lights and where there aren't any
On the M25 and M40, amongst many, have sections where there are lights then none, who decides whether a stretch of road should or shouldn't have lights
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Why not just fit PIR sensors to them?
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As long as the PIR sensors were coupled with lights for say a 100m radius of the initial one so that you could see a bit ahead and anyone following or from a side road could do too then that sounds fine. Better than fine - perfick!
Ah! But don't sodium lights have a long warm up time - bit of a problem there.
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And traffic lights? - well, at most junctions and all roundabouts anyway.
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Ah! But don't sodium lights have a long warm up time - bit of a problem there.
How about replacing the sodium lights with LEDs? The technology has moved on enough now for them to be bright enough.
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Dulwich Estate - What area of the UK are you in?
The council's electricity supplier will be very interested to hear that the council have undeclared un-metered assets hooked up to their distribution system.
Unfortunately that particular problem is very widespread.
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Errr Blue, I think his name may give a clue........
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LEDs are a very inefficient way of lighting space, they are only efficient for display purposes, what I mean by that is where the light source is to be seen, such as in matrix displays, warning beacons, It would take around 50-100w of the latest Luxeon LEDs to light a room like a 21w CFL and the colour rendering would be awful.
I'm all for turning the street lights off, and letting people's eyes get used to the dark. People should carry a light if they want to see in the dark!
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Errr Blue I think his name may give a clue........
Ah yes, silly me. :-)
It's just not a town that comes up on my radar very often, which is possibly a good thing as it means that I can most likely keep my nose out. ;-)
Edited by Blue {P} on 06/02/2008 at 22:46
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As reminded by my old man - during the war, it wasn't just streetlights that were blacked out - everything was - and people coped!
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As reminded by my old man - during the war it wasn't just streetlights that were blacked out - everything was - and people coped!
Coped? Road deaths were at all time highs!
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Muggers would have a field day!
Cheers
DP
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We do have the street lights turned out after midnight in my part of West Sussex --
It makes staggering back from neighbours a couple of streets away after dinner or drinks a bit hazardous.
We walk though the unlit 'twittens'...... being wary of giant hailstones
If you want to know where I live the clues are there...... :0)
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Not in the bit I go to, although it looks innocent enough, indeed idyllically rural and unpopulated. Two small towns with supermarkets within five miles or so, and one big suburb full of Wag haciendas, make a diffuse uneven glow to the north and east, while Worthing and Brighton are near enough to contribute to the general background brightness.
I will make enquiries as to what twittens are, helicopter.
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Some friends got married in rural West Wales and had a reception at a hotel. On leaving the hotel, I could not find the car as the night was blacker than I have ever experienced before. No moonlight. No clouds or pollution layer to reflect street lights. eventually after 5 minutes I found it. But yes, it makes sense to turn off most lights at night IMO.
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I'll take a stab at Hurstpierpoint.
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That was meant for Helicopter but it's not where I wanted it to positioned.
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Not Hurstpierpoint I'm afraid Dulwich......
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Billy the search engine athlete has beaten me to it comfortably. I was going to ask people what twittens were when I got round to it, and was thinking in Chichester sort of terms.
Horsham isn't a small market town any more though. Difficult to find your way around there if you don't know it too.
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IIRC the presence of street lighting denotes 30 mph unless specified but if unlit at night would that mean you could ignore it then?
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I will suggest another benefit of turning street lighting off. It might encourage those drivers ( INCLUDING a few lorry drivers who should know better!) who are too mean, stupid or lazy to check their lights and replace blown bulbs, into taking some action.
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"IIRC the presence of street lighting denotes 30 mph unless specified but if unlit at night would that mean you could ignore it then? "
Like during the day when they are not switched on??????? ;-0
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You are a thread merging genius. If you look at the earlier thread you'll see that I talk about "lights out" in Maldon, Essex.
The link in your post says "The thunderstorm, possibly a rare rotating type known as a supercell first began its path of destruction at West Wittering, in West Sussex. It continued for 150km to Maldon in Essex, passing over Horsham in the process. " Very impressive.
But I'll still interested in the changes (unlit parking, speed limits) that not having lighting may bring,
Thanks,
Simon
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If you want to know where I live the clues are there...... :0)
Hmmm... on a Gatwick flightpath?
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>>If you want to know where I live the clues are there...... :0)<<
I suppose i could put this in IHAQ, but this thread hijack ;-) seems the best place to put it! at this mo!
"Twittens" - small streets in Horsham, west Sussex.
but... did thier name actually originate in the nearby town of Wes(T Witter) ing.
Billy
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No mention made of:
Switching them back on for morning rush hour in winter
Additional cost of time clocks - resetting them when power failures - resetting them for time of year - most current lighting controlled by light sensors which requires no adjustment
Electricity costs midnight to 6.00 a.m. minimal
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Or the effect on crime levels as ne'erdowells get free roam of the darkened streets.
I'd love to be able to see the stars... In principal it sounds like a great way to save a few quid too... But round our way they'd nick anything if its not nailed down and giving them the darkened streets and alleys to get away with it would be a bit dangerous.
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Well done Billy - by the power of the mighty Google.
I do indeed live in Horsham but whilst I am within twenty minutes of the airport and I can see the Gatwick planes in the distance from my window , the flightpath is east to west so I am well to the south . I am flying in and out of Gatwick regularly and the light pollution is obvious everywhere in the south east.
Any jet flying over Horsham is well away from the part where I live.... Believe me the choice of home was made exactly with this in mind .
The hailstones were the biggest ever recorded in Britain - tennis ball size or larger.
Horsham is no longer a small market town - it has grown and been by passed since I first came here and is difficult to get around as a motorist if you do not know the area.
The twittens are a warren of cut throughs and alleyways between the streets of the old town and the tradition has carried over in the newer areas as well .
Going back to the original thread - the local streetlights go off at midnight in residential areas but the main roads and I see no reason why most of the south east could not do the same , just put them on timers - its quite easy.
As for seeing the stars - where I work in the gulf area of the middle east at night it is amazing how many stars you can see.
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"Twittens" - small streets in Horsham, west Sussex.
Fairly generally used throughout my part of (East) Sussex when I lived there. Not sure of the
etymology - but I rather like the corruption of 'between'. Is Horsham on a flightpath though? The (turquoise) hailstones clue.
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As anyone who lives in the country and walks after dark knows, you can usually get enough light o see where you are going on unlit roads (walking that is) when your eyes acclimatise.
It's the sudden switch from lit room to dark that fools your eyes.
I run in early mornings when it is dark in winter. If it's very early I take a torch. The only time I have ever fallen due to the dark in 30 years running in UK and elsewhere was when running in town with torch off and lights on .. and the street lights failed. I caught my foot on a kerb!
The human eye in good condition is remarkably sensitive to even the smallest trace of light.
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Motorways certainly don't need any street lighting except at junctions. Anyone who says this is dangerous is clearly driving too fast for the conditions.
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Clearly the Daily Mail has been reading this thread. This morning's front page headline:
'Councils saving money by turning out lights help muggers'
Could just as easily have been 'Councils waste carbon lighting empty streets'.
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My thoughts are it's a good idea.
Where I live, the vast majority of night time crime takes place directly underneath the streetlamps while to bits in between are generally untouched! A couple of years ago a road nearby had about a dozen wheely bins set on fire in one night. All of them were directly under streetlamps; the ones in between were not touched.
Most of the local graffiti appears under streetlamps - often on the pavement as well as the walls!
On the driving point of view, I find it easier at unlit junctions at night - one can see thew glow of approaching headlamps from the other roads quite nicely. In general, I find the unlit roads also are more relaxing on the eyes [ until someone comes the other way on full beam with a zillion watts! ] but also make people pay more attention.
A friend of mine lives in Somerset; a village referendum a few years ago produced a solid rejection of a proposal to install streetlamps in the village because of fears of attracting criminals plus a fear that they would encourage people to drive faster at night [ both factors happened when other places in that area were fitted with streetlamps ].
And apart from the huge waste of energy [ just look at the satellite pictures of the country by night ] there is plenty of evidence emerging that excessive nocturnal illumination is disturbing and damaging wildlife.
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In Spain year before last, staying with friends in a sort of dugout cave dwelling (with swimming pool and all mod cons however) in a tiny hamlet in the hills above Granada. A glaring concrete street light shone all night outside the bedroom, forcing us to shut the shutters. It had been installed the year before to our hosts' great disgust, and I would have thought entirely unnecessarily. But the locals didn't seem to mind, they said.
I suspect local authorities everywhere are desperate to spend the money they extract from the population in such quantities. If they don't, they can't continue to ask for more. And then, given some inflation, what would they have to pour out of their ears after a while?
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