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What's a reasonably modern and cheap successor to the Vauxhall Cavalier and others of that ilk?
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Vauxhall Astra-G (mk4 - '98-'04) - a worthy successor to the Cavalier, virtually the same size and space, cheap as chips and plentiful. The '98-'00 cars still have 2-4 years left on their 12 year corrosion warranty.
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I'd say a Mark 1 Mondeo ('93 to '96), mostly galvanised bodies so little rust, the examples I still see on the road seem to have very little wear either inside or out.
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'93 to '96 is still rather old, though - the old Cavalier only stopped in '95 ISTR.
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I'd say a Mark 1 Mondeo ('93 to '96) mostly galvanised bodies so little rust the examples I still see on the road seem to have very little wear either inside or out.
Yes, manufacturers do seem to have learned how to make trim last, the 194,000 mile '95 Omega I've just pensioned off still has trim that looks like new, even the driver's seat shows very little wear. Indeed I'd submit the 2 litre pre-facelift Omega as a Bangernomics candidate, admittedly a bit large for some, but much better put together than equivalent Vectras / Astras etc.
I suppose one of the main challenges facing as bangernomics disciples is the increasing use of CANBUS systems, making fault finding much more difficult and expensive.
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>>is the increasing use of CANBUS systems
But, hopefully, it will make the likeliehood of a fault less in the first place. In fact, once the cars with teething troubles are gone, I think CANBUS will prove to be extremely reliable.
Number_Cruncher
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my 2000 primera 2litre seems to be a perfectly able banger.
I'd also consider an avensis. The Mondeo is a bit wide for me.
Does the Lexus LS400 count - for those that like big wide cars ?
CANBUS doesn't worry me so much as the vulnerability of HID headlights.
A failure could write my primera off !
Actually, there are so many expensive bits on a modern car that any failure can be disastrous.
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Regrding the Astras which engine size would be the safest bet.
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an Almera as they seem perfectly reasonable cars for little money
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Any of the korean brands- Kia,hyundai,daewoo- would be a good bangernomics bet- admittedly without any sort of badge kudos.
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Good point - the korean brands could be a good choice. They devalue fairly fast so you have the advantage of being able to get a newer car for same money. I looked at Kia Sedonas a while back and it looks like you can get some real bargains.
Does anyone know which engines they use? I.e. doesn't one of them use a GM engine?
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I think the problem with newer bangers is the failure of components outside of the engine and drivetrain.
E.g. HID lights and a recent example is the central locking failing on my 1999 A4, it all runs form a central pump in the boot, aparently its circa £300 just for the part.
I'd give my vote to the vauxhall omega. I know a few people with older examples and I've been very impressed with the amount of car you can get for your money. Engines look very easy to work on with plently of room. An ex vaux mech once told me that cambelts are a piece of pss to change on them (2.0l engine). Not so sure about the V6 variants though.
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Peugeot 605 - but see the CBC - electrics are iffy.
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Mazda 626 - some are as new as 2001 but even the older ones can look pretty solid (say R&S Reg)
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I'd second that.
My R98 626 has been almost faultless over the last 4 years. Apart from servicing, brakes and tyres, the only work needed was a replacement sump. Have managed to run up 50k in that time with depreciation coming in at a whopping £1000 (assuming its still worth £500 with 12 months MOT). When she finally gives up, I'll probably look for another one.
Jonathan
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"Peugeot 605 - but see the CBC - electrics are iffy."
I'll second that, I drove three different models over 11 years, enormous, cheap to buy and never had an electrical hiccup. One failed fuel pump in all that time.
Boot that swallows anything. Acres of space. Very very comfy.
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Boot that swallows anything. Acres of space. Very very comfy.
Ahh, I see you have met my ex.
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"Peugeot 605
They don't seem to be very common - less than a handful on AutoTrader!
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I'd give my vote to the vauxhall omega. I know a few people with older examples and I've been very impressed with the amount of car you can get for your money. Engines look very easy to work on with plently of room. An ex vaux mech once told me that cambelts are a piece of pss to change on them (2.0l engine). Not so sure about the V6 variants though.
I ran my V6 Omega estate to around 160K IIRC, no big bils, but I do around 35K miles per year, and the V6 would eat rear tyres in 10K, at around 100 quid a corner for P6000 or similar it was getting expensive. The 2.5 is a fair bit more complex than the 2 litre, but the water pump isn't driven from the cambelt, so one less bit to change. My 2 litres managed 35K on P6000, the cambelt is pretty straightforward, plenty of room, and the 2 litre gave good economy, I averaged around 38 mpg over a year's driving. The ultimate bangernomics Omega would be the early ones with the 8V engine, from the Carlton I think - a tad slow though.
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Regrding the Astras which engine size would be the safest bet.
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The 1.6 16v - says he having got 98,000 pleasurable miles out of a 1.8 - even my wayward son hasn't been able to ruin his 1.6 16v, yet.
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Avensis? All those cabbies can't be wrong, can they?
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the 1.8 Rover 75, loads around and all going for very cheap money - lots of info on the web about how to maintain them and keep them going - decent build quality as well - another couple of years and they really will be bangernomic cars.
Edit: Just looked on AT and they are already sub 1k for the 2.0 V6 - and parts are available (most anyway), I got an original set of interior mats, brand new for £15!!!!! Bargain :o)
Edited by TU on 01/02/2008 at 08:57
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Don't forget that a £300 part will be a fifth of that at a breakers yard, and often with enough of a guarantee to cover you against the "new" part being duff. A key part of bangernomics is not spending a penny more than you have to to keep the car reliable and roadworthy. My Mondeo is now in this territory, and it's actually quite fun. If it needs brakes, belts and those kind of things, they're new - no questions asked. Everything else sees the breakers route investigated. The job is done as cheaply as possible without being bodged. Trivial faults that don't affect the safety or running of the car can be ignored!
This is where Fords and Vauxhalls really come into their own - more registered means more written off, means more secondhand parts.
Instead of fitting a £60 engine mount to the Mondeo, I bought a £10 one from the breakers. It's still on there to this day and works a treat. I've bought complete driveshafts (from other cars) with 3 month guarantees before for £20 instead of replacing a joint on its own for £60.
Cheers
DP
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Don't forget that a £300 part will be a fifth of that at a breakers yard and often with enough of a guarantee to cover you against the "new" part being duff.
There are also various on-line middlemen, who will pass requests for spares to participating breakers who subscribe to their service. You enter your details, and in a short space of time receive e-mails with parts and prices. These may not be quite as cheap as breakers you visis, and you've got to pay postage, but they're convenient. I have used such a couple of times, with no trouble.
Edited by FotheringtonThomas on 01/02/2008 at 10:31
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Arguably we are in a golden age for bangernomics that is due to pass.
In the late 80s car manufactuers realised how to produce cars that didn't rust or fail mechanically. Rebore, anybody? When did you last adjust your valves? Clean a spark plug? These cars are still on the roads; can be picked up for peanuts; and are simple as anything (ish). 200k miles even in a Rover.
By the late 90s, cars had developed a plethora of safety features (e.g. ABS). Electronics became very cheap to produce and install - drive the entire car from a few chips all attached to a board. And it gets worse.
All are very expensive to replace when you have to replace the entire thing when something goes wrong. And you have little idea what you should replace either, without expensive test equipment.
So the golden age of simple yet long-lasting cars is soon to be gone. The more complex they are, the bigger the gamble.
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Imo there are two categories of bangers suitable:
1.Those built in high volumes so parts and cheap plentiful and in scrappies. Name your car.
As long as they don't have built in faults or really bad electrics (Avoid Renault diesels) you should be ok.
Mid 1990s Mercedes are in this group and in Group 2 as well!
2. Those built well and with outstanding reputations for reliability. Eg Toyota , Honda, Mazda, Nissan, Lexus etc.
Then there are the cars to avoid: Expensive when new, known weaknesses and not many around. I would suggest Audi A8 to fall in this category. Known weaknesses in gearboxes and VERY expensive parts.
As I am growing older and less tolerant I favour group 2.
So lots of volume cars in Group1. Saxos/106/Fiestas fall into the smaller cars.
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Hyundai Sonata, perhaps not the V6, for economy. Not too bad to drive. Generally reported reliable. The 5 year warranty may have expired, but it does mean any little niggles developing over that period will most probably have been put right. Passengers in mine reported it comfortable (referring to the car, not necessarily the driving, I think!).
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Nissan Micra - they haven't got cam belts to change. Instead they've got a cam-chain that will last the life of the car.
They're cheap to run an repair. Try to get one with 13 inch wheels (instead of 14) as the tyres are about £10 cheaper (each)
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