"Public Preception" - more accurately described as "How it is reported by the Press?"!
Scameras only catch people that break the speed limit, though the press have made them into evil monstrocities - random breath testing is the same principle - if you abide by the law you will be ok, if you break it you'll get done....
Where's the problem?
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As someone alse said above - it already is random. If the law wants to stop you they will find a reason.
I met a friend of mine ( lager man ) who has just moved into West Sussex for a drink the other day , asked what he wanted and was surprised when he asked for a mineral water.
Turns out he was randomly stopped four times in December and it scared him so effectively it has stopped him even having a half when he's in the car.
I was driving as well so it was a J2O rather than H2O for me - whats the point in going to the pub at all?
Random testing really is excessive use of a blunt instrument IMHO.
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Random testing doesn't mean stopping on suspicion or because of committing some other infringement. It means stopping every 50th car or whatever and testing the driver regardless.
Or putting all car registrations into a machine like the premium bonds tombola, generating a batch of random numbers, and then going out and finding and breathalising all the owners.
Stopping and testing drivers on suspicion or hunch is completly different and sounds a thoroughly good idea. I would hope the police stop and challenge anyone who looks as if he has, or might be about to, commit an offence. My father was once stopped and questioned about a suitcase he was carrying through the backstreets of Crewe in 1945 at midnight. He protested it was empty, which of course immediately aroused suspicion. He was proved to be right - he was moving digs, as people did in those days, and this was one of his return trips.
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Our driving licence is a privilege, not a right, and it's earned by passing a test and accepting subsequent rules & regulations. Aircraft pilots accept rigorous checks as the norm. Why shouldn't drivers? The life-threatening potential of a drunk driver is every bit as real as that of an incompetent pilot. Random tests frighten drink drivers.
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I'd accept the rules and regulations a bit more if new ones weren't being issued on what now seems like a monthly basis. You'd think motoring was the single biggest killer in the UK. By the way, over 10 ,000 people died in NHS hospitals last year due to viruses they caught in them and through botched operations.
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"Random tests frighten drink drivers."
They'll just learn where they are and go a different route.
Drink driving was down over Christmas and continues to fall. I'd rather the coppers were doing something useful rather than sitting in a lay-by for a full shift hoping to catch the odd drinker. What a waste of a resource. What a stupid idea.
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Random tests frighten drink drivers.
Why? Now stay with me while I reason this out. If a driver who has drunk more than the limit, can satisfy a passing or following police crew that his driving appears to be ok, then whats the problem with that?
The police - Sorry the GOVERNMENT want is the powers to stop all and evenry motorist in check point style swoops. The police have, in affect, the power to randomly stop any single motorist, they dont have the power to put up checkpoints for the sole purpose of breath testing.
I think the government think this is the best way to use a dwindling resource (trafffic police) to up the figures for drink driving (which they think will look good in the press).
IN reality all it does is divert scarce resource away from lots of other crimes and traffic infringments.
What we really need is more policeman to catch all the wrong doings INCLUDING DD!
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catch all the wrong doings INCLUDING DD!
Are you trying to get the thread closed by making scandalous non-specific insinuations about the powers that be, AE?
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You can't read anything into drink drive figures. They're collated on the basis of Officers submitting yet another form. Well, I have more than enough of those already, so neither I, nor my shift, submitted any over Xmas. I know an awful lot of others who refused to as well.
As for 'drivers switching their route to avoid random breath testing'. I think you've misunderstood the concept of random. :)
As has already been said, we don't need any legislation. We have more than adequate powers already. And I will never apologise for feeling an immense amount of satisfaction everytime I catch someone over the limit.
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feeling an immense amount of satisfaction everytime I catch someone over the limit.
Last time I was breathalysed - the fifth I think all told - now some years back, two plod had followed me briskly - a shade too briskly evidently in my then Skoda Estelle - through the neighbourhood to my parker just round the corner. She was aggressive and unpleasant, flustering me slightly, and he was courteous and correct. When I 'passed' - LOL - he was visibly pleased, and she was visibly miffed. I felt an immense amount of satisfaction, or perhaps relief is a better word...
:o}
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Last time I was stopped I was cold stone sober. NOt a trace. whne I was given the obligatory "have you had a drink lately sir" I had great delight in saying "only a few sniffters of vodka"
The look of disapointment on the coppers face when the machine read clear made my day. He spent the next 10 minutes trying to find something, anything, to pin on me. I think he was tempted to get me down the nick to be tested on the machine there!
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You can't read anything into drink drive figures. >>
You could if they were based on genuine results from true random testing. The figures, if from a large enough sample, would be statistically significant.
Only stopping people who look drunk distorts the conclusions.
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it was a J2O rather than H2O for me
Er... large Jameson with a splash of water? Just curious... :o)
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So random testing catches lots of drivers and takes their licences off them. Stop them driving ?
No, they just do what thousands of drivers all ready do in this country, they drive whilst banned.
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So random testing catches lots of drivers and takes their licences off them. Stop them driving ?
Aimed at the middle classes more than the chavs!!
Prospect of random testing scares the pants off them and they stay sober.
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Legally the RTA allows an officer in uniform to stop any motor vehicle at any time, failure to comply is an offence. Once stopped the officer naturally talks to the driver and any alcohol smell allows the officer to compel the driver to take a breath test, fail to do so and off we go for a blue light drive.
Personally, if you drink any alcohol and drive you are a selfish idiot and should not behind the wheel. Ever.
Drink drivers kill.
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If 30% of all accidents are caused by drunken drivers, shouldn't we be looking at stopping the sober drivers who cause the other 70% ?
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Personally if you drink any alcohol and drive you are a selfish idiot and should not behind the wheel. Ever.
You are entitled to your opinion o tailless one. And the authorities, bless them, are entitled to their more moderate one.
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Erm.. tail-less?
Edited by FotheringtonThomas on 22/01/2008 at 22:05
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Erm.. tail-less?
Clue in the poster's name - manxboy ;-)
Regards
Paul
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Personally if you drink any alcohol and drive you are a selfish idiot and should not behind the wheel. Ever.
Crikey, I'm glad that there's a spirit of reasonable compromise in the law today. I have no problem with the current limit, nor with having a pint of bitter and a pint of 1:1 bitter/low alcohol bitter, or equivalent. I'm also glad that I do not drive "over the limit", or endanger others.
It's the people who exceed the limit, or are so stupid as to endanger others by driving below the limit but are affected by their alcohol (or drug) intake, or who drive stupidly even when absolutely drug and alcohol free, who are the real problem.
Edited by FotheringtonThomas on 22/01/2008 at 22:03
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J2O is Fruit Juice unfortunately Lud - Apple and Mango.....
I'm not a great fan of Jamesons - I prefer Scotch whisky rather than Irish whiskey - although I will force myself to drink it if you're buying....
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Turns out he was randomly stopped four times in December and it scared him so effectively it has stopped him even having a half when he's in the car.
A fairly extreme reaction, unless one has had a drink before going to the pub. I wonder whether he always drives at less than 15MPH in a 60 limit...
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>>>> effectively it has stopped him even having a half when he's in the car. >>
I never drink in the car, not even snatching a quick one before I shut the garage door. It's so much more comfortable at home or in the pub.
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I have no issue with random testing, stopping someone on suspicion (due to irratic driving say), and a road block with testing. But only as long as a) it is shown to be effective, or b) it is tried and discontinued when it is found to be ineffective and c) it is not used to target specific groups unfairly.
Anyway, aren't most crimes and incidents these days related to drink (disturbances outside pubs etc) and illegal drugs (theft, dealing etc)? I would have thought that our political masters would do better to target those issues.
"At least the current Home Secretary has the bottle to buy a kebab in Pekham. Makes you proud to be British."
She is far braver than me. Botulism, E. coli, etc. I'm sure the Oxford University Dangerous Sports society indulges in such foolhardy pursuits, but I'll give it a miss. Bet she later went for a MacRat, or a Southern Fried Rodent to really show off?
(Is that the pitter patter of a moderators dainty foot steps I hear approaching ...)
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>>She is far braver than me. Botulism E. coli etc. I'm sure the Oxford University Dangerous Sports society indulges in such foolhardy pursuits but I'll give it a miss.
Actually Leif there was a very good kebab place in Peckham when I was a Clapham minicab driver in the seventies. We used to send someone there for the kebabs come 2 or 3 in the morning... and so did the local plod, even though it was a couple of miles through Brixton to get there. Not the cheapest, but definitely the best. Never poisoned anyone, and only the most conservative mother's boys didn't trust them ('Nah mate, they're foreign, you dunno what they've done to it, do you?').
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Actually Leif there was a very good kebab place in Peckham when I was a Clapham minicab driver in the seventies.
I used to be partial to Donor (sic) Kebabs when I was a student. Especially with the West Indian pepper sauce, which these days I find mild. I must admit that I never had the squits, but then again I was young, with an immune system which could have fought off all but Porton Down's finest.
I'm not sure I would want to know what went in to those kebabs .. though it cannot be any worse than most sausages etc. Everything but the squeal as they say.
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I never drink in the car not even snatching a quick one before I shut the garage door. It's so much more comfortable at home or in the pub.
I did at a wedding last year, it was being held in a garden of a lovely house in the countryside, after a while I needed to make a phone call and the music was getting dull so I sat in the Mondeo with a glass of Champagne whilst absolutely ratted. I've never been in the driving seat with that much "haze" before. Pleased that I was on private property as I wouldn't have wanted a cop to walk past and find me like that! Of course the engine was off and I was going nowhere as even walking in a straight line was a bit of a challenge at this point. :-)
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so I sat in the Mondeo with a glass of Champagne whilst absolutely ratted. I've never been in the driving seat with that much "haze" before. Pleased that I was on private property
I wonder if you could be done even on private property? I ask because we've all at least once been a bit tiddly, and popped down to the drive to pick up an item left in the car.
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Not a man to scare easily is my mate FT .. If you can survive for thirty odd years as a Sarf Lunnun second hand dealer and have been married five times you are a pretty tough nut.
Nope - it was simple, he'd just had his first own fault accident in years and it cost him a bomb . He'd never been breathalysed before and then gets four in a month.
He still has his traders policy and needs to keep it . A DD conviction means his livelihood so he decided rather than risk the 'I should be OK to drive' syndrome when you have had a couple it was better to have nothing at all.
As I say - it used to be one of the great pleasures of my life to drive to a country pub , literally hundreds have been visited by yours truly over the past 40 years, meet with friends and then have a meal , couple of drinks and a cigar in congenial company.
Hardly seems worthwhile going out to country pubs these days - Does anybody else agree??
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Country Pubs have thined out. Those that are left are, in the main, now selling very good food. Its still possible to go out with friends, have an pre dinner snifter (A G&T with ice and a slice but no T), a good meal with a glass of reasonable (albeit new world) wine. Alas no cigar for me any more - I am a reformed smoker just one puff away from 20 a day.
Once home the Port decanter gets a very severe thrashing.
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" it used to be one of the great pleasures of my life to drive to a country pub, meet with friends and then have a meal , couple of drinks and a cigar in congenial company.
Hardly seems worthwhile going out to country pubs these days - Does anybody else agree?? "
Aah, the good old days - but yes I agree.
And nearly as good as a game of rugby in the freezing rain and mud, a (communal!) bath with teamates and opposition, a few pints afterwards, a curry to follow and then the drive home. Totally irresponsible I suppose and certainly not on the cards these days.
Mind you I now have SWMBO who will have a spritzer (Sp?) or a white wine while I consume a few pints of best bitter and she drives home - there are some compensations for getting old!
Oh, and a MacAllan (sp again?) when home!
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Yes PhilW, the rugby club was the centre of social life when I was younger , my school was the rugby playing feeder for the town club and the best way to get an ( underage) drink was to invest two bob (10 p for you backroom youngsters) in one pint after the match to go with your pie and peas supper , drink a half and then wait for the captain or president to come round and top up from the four pint jug they had bought .
Then getting involved in a boat race...
I recall returning home at 2 am when about 15 ( driven by a mate who had had at least six pints to my knowledge ) and lying on the floor in a dishevelled state with the ceiling spinning...
I am not advocating a return to those days of forty plus years ago - that friend ( a local farmers son ) was again drunk a couple of years later when he hit the back of a lorry on the old AI and was decapitated....
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