As most of you will have experienced yesterday was a terribly wet day especially where I was.
I was driving on the inside lane of the Al dual carriageway northbound approaching Alnwick in Northumberland. I was well back from the traffic ahead as there was spray affecting visibility.
I was overtaken (and given a bit of a fright at the time) by a motorcyclist riding at the fastest speed I have ever witnessed,. I was driving at between 65-70 and the motorcyclist passing me must have been doing another 50-60 mph, sheer lunacy it was and you could barely see him for the spray he was throwing up.
From what little I could see of him he appeared to be a private motorcyclist and even if he were delivering a vital transplant part or in any other official capacity he would have had no chance to take evasion action if a vehicle had pulled out ahead of him.
This motorcyclist was on a death wish and it is only a matter of time before he has his wish granted.
Edited by mal on 19/01/2008 at 22:03
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As a motorcyist and not going to agree that he was right or wrog but after 16/17 years of riding bikes i ca say youhave no wiper and actually going faster means you can clear the visor and see. Problem may drivers do ot realise how difficult it is to ride a bike i wet coditions and allow little room and as always rarely se you.
No need to quote the entire original post. It becomes all to easy to delete the lot when we're repeatedly editing these....
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 19/01/2008 at 22:51
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This motorcyclist was on a death wish and it is only a matter of time before he has his wish granted.
mal
You seem to be implying that 'speed kills'. I think the accepted wisdom on here is that speed is not dangerous. In fact, by riding at well above the speed limit he was probably a lot more alert and aware of what was going on around him and so a lot safer. Driving at the legal limit would have made him dozy, prone to making mistakes etc. Its all about individual responsibility (or something...)
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He might have been more aware; that wouldn't help him when others are not.
Even given that most of us are more "on our guard" when weather conditions are poor, that would in no way compensate for the reduced control which the biker would have on a wet road at that speed.
If people really want to do this sort of thing, I wish they'd trailer the darned bike to a racetrack and kill themselves there; it'd keep my insurance premium down!
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In the cold light of day, the accepted wisdom on here is that speed is not dangerous UNDER THE RIGHT CONDITIONS.
The biker's speed of 105 to 130 MPH on an empty motorway in good weather is not dangerous. (I have driven at 150 mph on autobahns.)
105 to 130 MPH through a town centre IS dangerous.
105 to 130 MPH in the tipping rain with lots of standing water, on a motorbike, on a busy dual carriageway sounds pretty dangerous to me.
If driving at the legal limit makes anyone dozy, they shouldn't be driving at all...
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It's not just motorcycles;travelling on the M4 in torrential rain,car after car was in the RH lane heading at highly illegal speeds into clouds of spray-zero visibility.Me-I was at a safe distance behind an "Eddie"-let him do the hitting.
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>I was at a safe distance behind an "Eddie"-let him do the hitting.<
Good strategy! For years I have made a point of trying to ensure that driving in contra flow situations I have a lorry in front of me. Preferably heavily laden. Good protection against narrow angle 'crossovers'. If you can manage to get a modern car with good crumple zones behind you it all goes to improving the odds of survival.
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Aprilla, I was not implying here that speed kills, I was only saying that in this incident of speeding under the road conditions at the time was reckless to say the least and the rider was placing himself and to a lesser degree other road users in danger.
As the the reasons you proffer for the motorcyclists speed in such conditions..........ridiculous to say the least.
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You seem to be implying that 'speed kills'. I think the accepted wisdom on here is that speed is not dangerous. In fact by riding at well above the speed limit he was probably a lot more alert and aware of what was going on around him and so a lot safer. Driving at the legal limit would have made him dozy prone to making mistakes etc. Its all about individual responsibility (or something...)
Many here agree that speed per se does not kill but anyone who is dozy when driving at the legal limit needs to be banned ASAP IMO. They are a menace. And as for them speeding, they have demonstrated a basic inability to respect the lives of others, so let's hope they don't.
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"and even if he were delivering a vital transplant part"
Hope he was carrying an organ donor card. He could deliver several vital transplant parts.
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Got a sneaky feeling Aprilia may have dusted off his big wooden spoon with his last comment?
Whats that bulge in your cheek?
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Reckon Aprillia's tongue was in his cheek though he alludes to a good point.
If road users are fully trained and fully empowered and laws were sensible in this regard this biker could be done for dangerous driving for doing 70 in those conditions and been left alone for doing, say, 100 if it were clear and bright.
Having a flat 70 limit that applies in all weathers, all times of day, all traffic conditions etc is simply daft.
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Having a flat 70 limit that applies in all weathers all times of day all traffic conditions etc is simply daft.
I do agree, but if you think about it from plods point of view for a mo, if you pull a chap on a bike up for doing a ton in good conditions, you can give him an ear bending and tell him to go away (assuming he passes the attitude test).
If you pull him up at a ton in wet/busy/dangerous conditions with commonsense speed limits available (which TBH i'm sure most of us would use reasonably), then if the motorcyclist is rich enough he could get all sorts of clever lawyers to argue him out of trouble.
Sounds like i'm singling out bikers here, i'm not it applies to all.
At least with a statutory limit, it does give plod the discretionary powers that i believe most of them use, as the offence has already been commited.
Have i explained that right?
The camera problem is another thing, no discretion at all.
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>> Having a flat 70 limit that applies in all weathers all times of day all >> traffic conditions etc is simply daft. At least with a statutory limit it does give plod the discretionary powers that i believe most of them use as the offence has already been commited.
I went to canada last jan and liked their 'freeway' limits you knew exactly where you stood whith speeding, basically from memory we did a lot of driving, you had a different limit for wet and dry (sure I have seen similar in France belgium?).
The signs also showed what the on the spot fines were depending on how fast you were going over the limit, somthing like 10kph = $100, 20kph $300, 30kph $500 (remember kph as canada) more than that it showed a cell door or similar i'm sure presumably this meant you did not have a leg to stand on!
Any thoughts on this type of system???
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Surely the point here is that: Why on earth was the motorcyclist travelling at 50+mph OVER the speed limit? The A1 at that point is NOT a motorway, and has many farm tracks etc coming on to it. Not only that, it's one of the favourite places for unmarked traffic cars to ply their wares.
Don't care if it helps clear the visor of spray - at his speed, in the rain, on a road that often gets covered in tractor mud, I'd hate to see the motorcyclist try to do an emergency stop....
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Got a sneaky feeling Aprilia may have dusted off his big wooden spoon with his last comment?
Let's hope so. But some people believe such ideas.
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You get them. They get theirs. Not much that can be done about it, apart from know your first aid, and keep clear of 'em.
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There are a lot of crazy motorcyclists out there - on Saturday stuck in a traffic jam on the A20, a bike came "through the middle" at about 60-70!
Then again, there is always a shortage of organs for transplant, so I guess motorcyclists play their part in the supply of these, not to mention the natural selection argument (good job there are no brain transplants ;)
MVP
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shame about the sarcastic comments about driver attention versus monotony.. no doubt posting that on a subject where the person being discussed is driving in a most unwise fashion....is designed to strengthen the opposing arguement
i would imagine any open minded, intelligent person would be able to see through that and apply the thought processes to the relevant conditions, not extreme ones...even if they don't agree
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We seem to have the same arguments that there have always been
Motorcyclists go to fast
Volvo Drivers dont use indicators
BMW Drivers are all Brash
Mondeo Owners (including myself) are all Reps
White Van Drivers all wear baseball caps
Jaguar Drivers are all old or old before their time
MPV drivers have 2.4 children and a dog
Landrover Discovery Drivers have a gun in the back and a black lab
Range Rover Drivers have too much money
Porsche Drivers all have small %~~#
I could go on but we all have opinions on bikers and car drivers, riding and drivig many vehicles over the years one is not more or less dangerous than the oher its just the situation, how many reps in vectras have you seen following too close behind another car.
Let and Let live I say , we all make a choice, we are guaranteed three things to be born, to pay tax and to die.
Would it not be a boring place if we were all the same all got about in the same way in the same vehicles in the same colour at the same speed, I could not think of a worse place to be though we are getting close with the nanny stae we seem to be in at the moment, and I guess it can only get worse.
p.s there are positives to bikes, less congestion, faster point to point with limits and it is legal to filter through traffic, statioary or otherwise as long as safe to do so.
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" We seem to have the same arguments that there have always been"
Not really. But there are some inconsiderate and/or careless people about. Sometimes I wonder about buying a large 4x4 for protection.
Yesterday I came to a flood in the road. It was just passable for my Ford Ka, so I crawled along at high revs. A Land Rover came down the opposite direction at high speed, throwing up a bow wave, and huge side waves 2 metres high, swamping my car, giving me zero visibility as it passed, and some time afterwards as the water drained from the roof. Fortunately the engine and exhaust were not overwhelmed, and the windows were shut. I hate to think how he/she drives near motorbikelists and cyclers.
And the last time we had heavy snow, and it settled on the road, I was amazed at the speed some people went at. (I learned my lesson from a very minor accident in snow years ago.)
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Just to repeat my mantra, everyone who wants a car licence should ride a low powered motor-bike for a year. That would learn them (to coin a phrase)
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>>motorbikelists and cyclers
:- )
The bow wave merchants just don't think or care. There's sometimes a massive puddle at the end of Carey St, just by the old Nat West Bank pub thingy. Give way like the highway code says and SPLOOSH!!!.
Wearing my (suddenly very wet) cyclers trouser clips I pursued the errant Almera the length of Chancery Lane determined to empty my water bottle into his lap. Unfotrunately I lost him at the lights!!!
Edited by Bromptonaut on 21/01/2008 at 22:38
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