Slowdown,
Why would the council ask you for statistical data of damage to emergency vehicles, unless you have provided this as an argument to support your case in said tussle.
If you have made this argument then surely you have the data to back it up or it was incorrect to use the argument in the first place.
I think you need to clarify your tussle as requested above to allow us to understand your issues and provide help.
Carse
Edited by Carse on 18/01/2008 at 13:51
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iam involved with the town council meeting regards traffic liason and planning. their agender seems to be handed down from goverment ie reduce speed limits ,slower and more predicatable journey times, less ksi, more cycle paths , more bus lanes, less on road parking, more pedestrian friendly, pay to park,
have shown them tyres worn to the metal on inside edge at 8,000 miles but they dont believe it could be caused by humps.
i can go over hundreds of humps in a day,so you mioght understand where iam coming from, iwant them to build more friendly humps not so high and with a longer gradiant, but they say our figures suggest that 75mm humps are the most effective. and i have to prove otherwise.
we all know humps are causing damage but we have to prove it with figures.
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the tussle is . the council dont believe that the humps cause damage to vehicles. they say it is al hearsay. but if i can show them some statistical evidence they will look in to it. They want evidence from tyre manufactures ,suspension fitters fire services alike.
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If they are out-of spec humps, you will have to take very large and clear photos which demonstrate this, and get a qualified and experienced engineer to provide his written opinion (dated and signed)that they caused the damage to your car. You're probably wasting your time without these.
If the humps are legal and to spec and guidelines, they have already paid due diligence.
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A US friend of mine said that if they tried speed bumps on 5th Avennue, a million people would sit down in the middle of it until they were removed. Couldn't understand why we put up with them.
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I don't understand why we put up with the damn things either. They wear out suspension and tyres, may cause other damage, cause noise and pollution, impede the progress of emergency service vehicles, are dangerous to motorcyclists, ambulances and their injured cargoes, increase fuel consumption and make life slightly more miserable than it needs to be. The arrogance and effrontery of local and other authorities in imposing them on us need to be punished. Vote for anyone*, anywhere, who promises to scrape them off the road and throw them away.
*anyone within reason, I mean.
Edited by Lud on 18/01/2008 at 14:51
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I have to say it amuses me when car drivers get on their high horse about humps - the only reason they are there is because the same poor misunderstood car drivers are not driving at an appropriate speed for the road but going too fast - the answer is in our own hands, if you want rid, then get evryone to slow down to 30 or 20 or whatever the limit is, and in the mean time quit moaning!
As for motorcyclists, the ones I see go roaring down the gaps between the humps at well over the limit, so can't see how they are dangerous to them!
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There's a difference between 'appropriate speed for the road' and a compulsory, jerky crawl. These stupid obstructions cause damage even if negotiated slowly. They are an abomination and anyone who thinks they are a good idea is a troll or worse...:o{
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I never said I liked them, I live on a road fitted with them!!!!
I am making the valid point that to blame the council for fitting them when all other means of slowing down traffic didn't work is quite frankly stupid - its not the council thats to blame, its our fellow drivers (or even you??) - I tend to drive along at about 20/25mph between them and 15/20 over them, so I don't have jerky progress, though I admit that its slow.
Its interesting that you call me all names under the sun, but don't blame those who are to blame for them being put there in the first place, those who speed in built up areas!
Edited by b308 on 18/01/2008 at 18:43
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Point taken b308, sorry.
There are other ways of enforcing speed limits deployed everywhere though. Nevertheless the powers that be still seem to think that it is cheaper to wind everyone up and damage their cars than to police the roads and catch reckless or inconsiderate drivers. There's something wrong with it, as if we were all children and they were fed up with us. 'Right! You can all stay in at break!' It's the damned cheek of it that annoys me. Who are these people, and what do they really know or understand?
Edited by Lud on 18/01/2008 at 18:55
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Thats a very good point, Lud, it takes me back to my school days when the whole class would be kept in detention because of the acts of a small minority, but no-one would blame them for it directly, though there would be lots of muttering - its same thing! The next post I think answers the question about understanding - they put them in there when people can't get the point that they need to slow down in dangerous areas (built up streets, schools, etc), if they didn't do something and a kid was run over they would get it in the neck just as much as they do from us.
More Police on the roads would certainly help, though they can't be everywhere and we'd still have the same problems - there's also a certain amount of self-regulation these days with the shear number of vehicles on the roads as well.
The only answer I could come up with is all cars fitted with regulators which stop the car going above a certain speed in key areas - it sounds fine in theory, but I just can't seem to trust our government to only restrict to to those areas, I can see all the fun of a decent run out on a quiet country road being stopped by our Big Brother Governemnet if we let 'em do it.......
Humps aren't the best of solutions, but the alternatives are just as bad.......
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the emergency services are against traffic calming to the extent that they slow them down by 10 seconds ahump cause lots of damage fire engines cant swerve around island refuges. but the council reply i to me was How many people get killed in house fires?
, the council have to reduce road kill , and want figures to prove it.
the goverment want amulances to get to you in 8 mins , but i guess they will move that up to ten before long
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Many humps are fitted by dumb councils after people complain about grossly speeding cars. The grossly speeding cars waking them up at night were of course stolen and carry on as before but with sparks, scraping sounds and vibration, meanwhile ordinary people die waiting for ambulances and have their cars ruined.
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Speed humps were introduced by Ken Clarke I believe.
Speed humps have been tested extensively by TRL to investigate the possibility of suspension damage. Basically if driven over at a reasonable speed (e.g. 15mph) then there should be no damage to most cars. There are some cars which have very low ground clearance where damage to spoiler and sump may occur.
Speed humps will not caust tyre wear at inner edges (as stated above) - that sounds like bad tracking.
To break a coil sounds well over the top - car must have been going at a heck of speed if the hump actually broke the spring (unless it was already broken and then jolted loose by the spring).
My last Merc I had for 8 years - 120k - probably went over 20 humps a day - all suspension parts were original.
At the local primary where I an a governor the 20mph limit is not working. Numpties blatting down there at 35+mph when the kids are coming out and there's cars parked all over the place. Head teacher now wants humps before a child is killed (one girl already hit by car and got a broken leg). Can say I blame her - and yes, under these circumstances speed may well kill.
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Civic is now 5 years old, and is driven over speed humps at least 12 times a day. There is no wear on the bushes or other relevant bits and the tyres track correctly. I've just paid for them to be checked by the dealer. However, some drivers, probably the same outlook as pot-hole and puddle seekers, seem to be disconnected from mechanical reality. Its not just stolen cars that refuse to slow down.
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Many humps are fitted by dumb councils after people complain about grossly speeding cars. The grossly speeding cars waking them up at night were of course stolen
Where do you live - Liverpool 8 ??
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I sometimes go to Bradford. On the main roads speed cameras are everywhere and on all others it is enormous speed humps that make your car bump and crash like you are on bombed out road in Afghanistan if you dare to travel faster than 15 mph. Driving in Harrogate and other parts of North Yorkshire is bliss in comparison. No speed cameras and few humps. Can't really be because the well healed drive better surely?
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Presumably Harrogate attracts the well-healed in its Spa capacity?
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I was thinking something similar, but then I do have a vested interest. ;-)
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yes towns like bradford with large immgrant populations and lots of kids who are let out to play with no roadsence have to be protected, its not just the drivers but the kids. and towns like this with large passing populations dont care that the y ruin it for every body because their moving on. the blame has to lie with police not catching the speeding drivers in the rat runs, they just went for the easy money on main roads.
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Blimey! I think you're letting this subject get the better of you. I doubt Bradford's large immigrant population will be 'moving on' in my lifetime. I reckon most of them are there for the long haul!
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 18/01/2008 at 20:54
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but really towns that have high passing populations why should they care it aint their town or country.
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but really towns that have high passing populations why should they care it aint their town or country.
Well, I don't reckon you've a strong argument there.
Let me tell you something. There is a very upmarket road that 'loops' off a main road near me. Lots of very big houses, well set back, many with electric gates and cameras at the entrance to the drive etc. Now this road has very little traffic, however the local council is conservative and a few of the councillors live on this road. Funnily enough it has a 20mph limit and about 6 speed humps along it - installed by the local council a few years back. In fact IIRC they are the first humps we had in the area - before any of the schools had them. It seems that the great and the good think that they are an excellent idea - stops any local chavs or delivery drivers zipping past the end of the drive and putting Oliver or Penelope in danger.
I suspect the reason that other roads acquire them can be found withing HJ's latest road test (Isuzu Rodeo) - I quote:
"I even chanced what should have been its worst environment: the Surrey school run. Actually, mine was a champagne run for the workers, but at the same time as the QE7s, X5s, GLs, XC90s and all the other battle wagons that come out to pick up the next generation of city brokers and bankers from their posh fee-paying schools, mothers chatting incessantly into their Motorola Razors and i-phones as they charge down the rat-runs through the council estate, anti-hijack locks applied."
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going over 20 humps in a merc dosent compare 200 a day in a corsa and pot holes and drain holes
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Only the speed humps are compulsory! Hitting potholes is a habit of the untrained, unobservant, car driver:)
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Bradford has always had "immigrant" populations.
Poles, Germans, Asians and now Poles again. Most settle for the long term, adding their own variations to the local cuisine and some new surnames in the schools.
If motorists use residential streets to avoid the arterial traffic jams they must anticipate coutermeasures!!
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Its more that the average car in Harrogate is a range rover or x5. They ignore the bumps.
There are speed cameras but they are in the police cars or manned at teh roadside.
York has plenty of humps and bumps - esp around the uni.
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20 Humps a day Aprilla! That's pathetic, I work less than 7 miles away, yet this is around 70 each way and I usually go out for a spot of lunch, most of these humps are in rack and ruin with ridges and crazed craters fore and aft to crash out of and into, in fact so bad, these defects can be seen on google earth! It is the 75mm wedge shaped cushion humps that scrub the tyres on the inside.
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Even Aprilia, who is often rational, thinks speed humps are all right if you go over them at a reasonable speed, say 15 mph.
Who says that is a reasonable speed except when you can see uncontrolled nippers running all over the road? There's nothing reasonable about it. It is an enforced crawl, pointless and a pain in the bum.
Most of these things are in roads and streets that have very little pedestrian traffic let alone schools. A reasonable speed is the fastest you can get over them without bottoming the car. Surely not even Aprilia will claim that such treatment isn't going to pound the suspension bushes and ball joints? Yet the alternative is to join the depressed procession of half-asleep mimsers, just give it best. Really I despair of some people. What a bummer this subject is.
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