Anyone remember the Hemel Hempstead ring of maybe 6 (8?) mini roundabouts laid out around another big roundabout ?
I last saw it in the 70's; got so scared I never went back.
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It' s still there - just found it on Local Live - its a mighty scary thing that !
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The secret is to look at the traffic flows as you approach. You can then decide whether to go the'right' or 'wrong' way round it! Works well most of the time when traffic is moderate to heavy. I think it may scare people when there is very little traffic, there is nothing to follow!
The worst junctions round here are the traffic light controlled roundabouts at the 2 A414/A1M/A1000 junctions. They are 'squared' up and at best the road lane markings can be described as ambiguous, even when you know the junction.
Edited by pmh on 14/01/2008 at 20:00
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It's a long time since I've been that way but the Hemel Hempstead roundabout was quicker anti-clockwise as most drivers seemed to be more comfortable going clockwise - the "natural" way round.
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"Hemel Hempstead ring of maybe 6 (8?) mini roundabouts laid out around another big roundabout ?"
That sounds like it, many years ago...
Edited by oilrag on 14/01/2008 at 20:15
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Yep there's six of the little devils in the sat picture, Its only when you look closely at the little cars and trucks that you realise that this is almost a counter rotating roundabout..
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Had to negotiate said roundabouts on my HGV course. Took some getting used to. Same idea at Hatton Cross at Heathrow Airport. 5 mini RABs around one big RAB. Used to get very congested here in past. Helps the flow of traffic move better. You can go left or right to your turn off.
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>>...Hatton Cross at Heathrow Airport. 5 mini RABs around one big RAB.
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>>You can go left or right to your turn off.
Except that the old route through to the aircraft crossing is now a no through road so traffic going into the airport for T1/2/3 all goes right.
Just be Very wary of the mini roundabout by the pedestrian bridge !!!
Many drivers and that includes me, travelling east on the A30 and wanting to turn right to Feltham, we turn LEFT into the airport and do a U turn at the first roundabout and then exit again. This is because the A30 left filter and light phasing etc. makes it much quicker.
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Yes HK , I know what you mean. Burning the mid-night oil I see !
But just one thing, am I right in thinking, that you cannot use a mini RAB to do a U turn, because of their design.
I know that there is plenty of room here to do one, but I am sure I was told that mini RABs are for turning left/right, continue only.
Edited by scribe on 15/01/2008 at 10:46
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It was the Colchester one that visitors hated. As someone said "close eyes and floor it"
tinyurl.com/yqrkz7
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Yes, you would think anti-clockwise planetary roundabouts would be counter-intuitive and confusing, but when you are actually in it you just empty your mind and go the obvious way... seems to work OK.
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The Swindon one is just plain terrifying.
vanrees.org/thesis/swindon.jpg
Cheers
DP
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There are two ways to design massive junctions where five or more roads converge: either slow everyone down to a crawl, or get everyone through as fast as possible.
At the "Magic Roundabout" (Only in Britain would a road feature be officially named after a children's TV series!) even local drivers slow right down, since they are never really sure if the other drivers are locals or visitors. The general consensus is to take it gently, follow instincts, and if in doubt pause.
At Place Charles de Gaulle in Paris, you just hare round the Arc de Triomphe; it's not a place for dawdlers. I entered on Foch and left on Wagram (eighth exit) seconds later - the gap between me and the other cars can only be described as "fag paper". Cobblestones that shook the car to bits and three screaming passengers but I took the bull by the horns and just did it.
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children with dinky toys and chalk road markings would do a better job in most cases
This fact was demonstrated in one of the shows on TV. Some 13-15 year olds actually designed motorway exits better than so called transport experts!
When I first entered Hemel Hempstead magic roundabout, I was honked twice, entered in the wrong exit. Came back, got honked once and then managed to go in right way. After that no problem :)
But I still don't understand the logics behind these crazy road designs!
PS: I don't have a Sat Nav. Interested in knowing how to they behave in magic roundabouts.
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I used to commute through hemel hempstead, via the magic roundabout (and before it was built).
The six mini-roundabouts are *much* better at handling traffic than the big single roundabout that preceeded it (and now forms the ring of this ring junction)
The magic roundabout has been a big success, and that's why it has stayed.
Similiarly, I now frequently use J4 off the M3. This has traffic lights on the roundabout at the end of the slip road; and they have improved traffic flow. The bus lane down the A325 isn't such a great idea, IMO.
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i'd love to know who thought it was 'common sense' to obstruct a drivers view approaching a roundabout and then call it 'road safety'
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i'd love to know who thought it was 'common sense' to obstruct a drivers view approaching a roundabout and then call it 'road safety'
A pet hate of mine, too, Westpig!
Apparently, it's done deliberately to slow drivers entering the roundabout because 'slow = safety'....
So instead of allowing drivers to time their approach and entry onto the RB with minimal recourse to stopping, this just leads to long tailbacks as everyone is forced to stop before joining (particularly from the outside lane).
Brilliant!
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obstruct a drivers view >> approaching a roundabout and then call it 'road safety' A pet hate of mine too Westpig!
And mine. I don't just hate it, I regard it as deliberately making the roads more difficult and dangerous for no conceivable reason, so I utterly despise it as well, and genuinely wish harm to whoever thought of and authorised it. Halfwits have no place in local government, LOL.
Perhaps Westpig can drop some hints as to how suburban guerillas can torch these things - which are usually made of matchboarding - without getting caught...
:o)
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Obstructing the drivers view? you can hate it as much as you like but it works and its proven to work. Halfwit? for designing something that works?
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Do I gather that you approve of these silly things AE?
Reading between the lines, there's nothing to say that you do. But if you do, why? Has bitter experience turned you into a mimser?
Come to think of it I remember you (along with others) said the ridiculous 50 limit on the A3 was a good idea.
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Lud
I do approve of these things.
My favourite is to obscure the view onto a roundabout. It causes traffic to actually slow down on the approach give way line becuase the driver cant see whats coming, rather than take the
"wow let me time this right so I can zip in at 50mph" approach. (which I have been guilty of in the past)
The A3? My views on this are firm. I have lived near, commuted on, used this road for nigh on 34 years. It has been in the past one of the most dangerous roads I know. The 50mph speed limit is sensible and correct, and heavy enforcement by speed cameras vital.
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Guilty shmilty. You have let the carphounds beat you down. You are just wrong about those roundabout approach screens.
On the A3, you may have a point. Not one that I really go along with, but a point nonetheless.
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i'd love to know who thought it was 'common sense' to obstruct a drivers view approaching a roundabout and then call it 'road safety'
Me too. There are a couple on Leeds ring road (Cottingley and Makro for anyone who knows the area) which are built up mounds. On both the high centres obscure all but wagons.
Once you see a gap the only option is to floor it. Despite it being a dual carriagway to go straight on I nearly always use the left hand lane to give me a bit more time to clear the roundabout.
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the thing is with obstructed view roundabouts is:
the cautious continue to drive cautiously as they always would have done... so no real change
the interested and aware driver who wishes to make progress, no longer can, so it becomes frustrating and irritating....
the dim, unaware, reckless, stupid, etc, ... drive down as they always have done and either pull out inappropriately or brake very hard at the last minute
great bit of road safety that
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Sounds like the new traffic lights on Milburngate at Durham. Simple 4 way roundabout now converted to a mess of lights, lanes and bus lanes (even though the bus lane itself actually goes through the centre of the roundabout - who thought that was a good idea!)
In all my travels I've never seen such a poorly thought out system. The net effect is traffic jams at any time of the day, wheres previously there was only issues at rush hour.
Of course the cynic in me would point to the fact this coincides with the anti-car Durham Councils park and ride/'congestion' schemes.......
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I have used j4 of the m3 regularly over the last 6 or 7 years and have never seen the roundabout gridlocked. Handy Cross j4 of the M40 on the other hand does it at least 4 or 5 times a week, looked to be getting that way again at 740 this morning.
No amount of "common sense" design can prevent sheer bloodymindedness of some drivers who are determined to progress 10 yards further even if it means blocking access to the roundabout to others.
Don't find the magic roundabout at the bottom of the hill in High Wycombe any problem really, can't remember when I last saw it gridlocked though it does get very busy at times.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 15/01/2008 at 13:46
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Being a Wycombe person, the magic roundabout is a piece of cake, even so now they've recently resurfaced it repainted the white lines & painting additional arrows on the lanes too.
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Hemel Roundabout. I always found it a piece of cake, even as a learner. But then I was a local.
A3 50 limit. I agree with AE on this as the road/lanes are quite narrow and it is in a built-up area. Doesn't mean that I actually stick to it, but if it was NSL, it would be dangerous.
And every time I'm anywhere near Paris I always do a quick loop of the Arc De Triomphe whilst it remains pure. It works very well, considering the heavy traffic flows it has to deal with. Can you imagine this surviving in London? Ken would reduce it to 2 lanes (one for buses) or do a 'Trafalgar Square' on it. As the Dutch have proved when it comes to road markings, "Less is more".
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