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Agree with Westpig!
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>>>who looks down their nose and equates a VW Lupo with a Bentley or a Smart with a Merc S Class or an Aygo with a Lexus, etc.
But VW, Mercedes and Toyota know how to make cars properly. Tata makes cars but do they make them properly? What happens if the contract to supply Jag engines from Ford ends - will Tata develope their own substitute or buy in one from Isuzu, VM or someone?
Edited by Sofa Spud on 17/12/2007 at 16:21
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Exactly.
I think what you're more likely to see is Tata borrowing old Jaguar platforms, putting a new skin on them and selling them in China and India.
Nothing wrong with that.
Remember, amazingly MG Rover *wanted* to use that Tata supermini, it wasn't forced on them!
I doubt much, if any production will be moved from Britain, due to the image problems the brand would have if the cars were made in India, for example. Although this may not bother US buyers that much, who are, after all the majority of customers.
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BMW build 3 and 5 series in India and they don't seem to have suffered with image problems, so why would Jaguar?
People bought them built by Brummies, so what's the difference with Indians building them? The Taj Mahal isn't just an Indian Take away, you know.
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I seem to remember reading that the reliability for the CityRover was amongst the highest of any supermini.
I can't see any real reason to believe that Jaguar under Tata will be worse than Jaguar under Ford. Remember there was a time when Japanese cars were looked down on. And even now, only Korean car makers are brave enough to offer exceptionally long warranties.
I would not let this put me off buying a Jaguar.
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Do not confuse Indian manufacturing with third world standards. Many manufacturing plants in India are state of the art. Most labour intensive industries use Indian sourcing and have done for years. Some of the very "poshest" brands in my industry have a huge percentage of their product made in India but ship it to Europe in component form so they can still claim "made in" Italy or UK or wherever. Branding is much more often about what you think you are getting than what you actually get.
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Well, looking at the other contenders, perhaps the best of a bad bunch ...
... but what a shame to see such a marque go to India (jeez, America was bad enough!).
Yeah, yeah - not pc - I know - but that's how I feel.
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Wonder if they'll get those young guys to do a restyle job, on the X-type - the ones that were in the Pug commercial, a couple of years back!!
& don't Tata - or ANother Indian company own British Steel, as was?
So we'll still have a British produced product!
VB
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don't Tata - or ANother Indian company own British Steel, as was?
Yes Tata do own Corus (British Steel) as was. They also own Tetley Tea. Plus some other companies here in the UK:
www.tata.com/0_tata_worldwide/across_uk/articles/2...m
The " ANother Indian company " in the steel business is the world's largest steel maker
www.arcelormittal.com/
And according to the Independent, Bill Gates has lost his crown
news.independent.co.uk/business/news/article310995...e
"Ambani overtakes Gates to become world's richest man
Reliance Industries, which was founded by Mr Ambani's father, Dhirubhai, spans oil, textiles and biochemicals and has annual revenues of $27bn, close to its fellow Indian conglomerate Tata Industries. "
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Tata or American private equity company One Equity, I'd choose Tata every time. Jaguar and LR are foreign-owned anyway, so they may as well go to someone who will sort them out.
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later down at ones private golf club
>>>>>>>>>>>> and what do you drive old boy?
why i drive a tata
in fact its a big tata
a very big tata
no cant see it...............
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According to the excellent Austin rover web site, this tata deal is a JV With Fiat whith a possible tie up with Alfa & Jag could be interesting!
Ford would almost certainly still be a share holder too, so no problems with engines and the like
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later down at ones private golf club >>>>>>>>>>>> and what do you drive old boy?
who down at this Golf club states..." Well i drive a VW, you know the big one, the Bentley"
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a previous boss of mine sold his Range Rover and bought a Tata Safari. (Ok he still had the Jag and Honda S2000) Seemed pretty well screwed together to me, sometimes badge snobbery means people miss out on perfectly decent cars.
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The automobile industry becomes more global every time one looks at it. I have completely lost track of what is made where, and from what components. Despite much experting (as we market researchers used to call it) here, I suspect most people are in the same boat.
I suspect too that some old-fashioned attitudes are present here, not that I have anything against them as such. But I can't help feeling that Indian and Chinese cars are or very soon will be as good as Korean and Malaysian ones at their best, and Thai ones too. Hindustans aren't all that well made, or so it is said. But I imagine there's a whole heap of new globalized stuff about to start appearing in India.
At a slight tangent, there was a late fifties/early sixties Fiat 1100 copy that used to be made in India, complete with big ball-joint steering column gearchange. I don't know what it was like, but I loved the boxy, perky, zippy little 1100 in its day.
Badge snobbery is for ignoramuses only. Assess the product. I don't see why Indian Jags should be any worse than the (somewhat overblown IMO) efforts that have been appearing in recent years. Nice motors no doubt, but not all that special seeming.
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Another thought: practicality is at a premium in the emerging industrial economies where average incomes are very low. This may well result in cars that are modern in all important respects but a bit retro in some others - with more practical and durable, and easily repaired, bumpers, lights and so on. Bad roads also set a premium on durable, repairable, absorbent, well-controlled suspension (also useful for man-made obstacles in the decadent West).
Cars like that would be better than the pretentious carp we get here (albeit only because we want it, as AE has pointed out).
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Knowing the Tata's, they will not interfere in operational aspects nad let JLR set the standards and they will use their vast resources to enable things. Expect the following
1: Local assembly of JLR products in India - before you say it, Merc C,E and S CLass's as well as BMW 3 and 5's are put together in India. This opens a potentially vast market to JLR
2: Sourcing of components...according to JLR standarrds. Mercedes, VAG, BMW, Volvo trucks source from India. Tata has the purchasing power in the indian automotive ancialliary industry to get these
3: In the long term, synergies with Fiat and Maserati
4: Tata's awful SUV's be replaced by LR based items
5: Execution of labour intensive R&D concepts
The CityRver/ Indica is the car of the masses, mainly as taxis. It appeals on three counts - low price, diesel fuel economy (in india) and space. The next gen one will be revealed with Fiat engines. When it comes to cars, Tata are still learning, you can expect the JLR design staff to be used to design cars for the group.
Has anything changed adversely at Tetleys or Daewoo trucks ? Quite the contrary, th management is happy and not changed much since pretakeover. Consider what Tata as a group can put into JLR. Preferential steel prices from Corus, IT support etc from TCS amonsgst other things.
The chairman Ratan Tata is a long term player who see things through. He could have chucked up the Indica at the teething stage but he soldered on knowing it will pay backonly after 10 years. He had transformed the organisation from a traditional hierarchy to a meritocracy. When it comes to brands, check out the Taj group of hotels
Campton Place - San Francisco
The Pierre - New York
51 Buckingham Gate - London
St James Place - London
Blue - Sydney
All pretty high end hotels. Tata is not Proton - a subsidised government org with an unfair monopoly. Tata took on Maruti Suzuki (govt owned with a head start) and rattled them. Not beat them.
Again things could go wrong but in the long term, my bets are it will go well as long as both parties respect each other. Remember, Ford treated JLR as expensive small fish. Tata will treat JLR as a treasure
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