The Jobsworth at a well known insurance co. wants my last two years tax returns in order to justify my charge for two hours of time in the accident that their insured caused....
What has it got to do with them what I earned for the last two years, I wonder, or how many hours I worked to earn it? Has anyone had a similar request from another insurer?
Name and shame edited
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 10/12/2007 at 17:42
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The Jobsworth at etc. wants my last two years tax returns
Ask for the name of their Director and tell them you want to speak/write to him/her.
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 10/12/2007 at 17:42
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Finding and providing those details has got to be worth another hour... :)
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Tell them the clain is now 2.5 / 3 hours as you had to research the details and contact your accountant - if they require an accountant's letter then this will be an additional £30 say!
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Yes indeedy, sort out and provide the information they want (its a reasonable request) (and a blocking tactic by them) and point out thats just added another hour of your time.
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< Ulla>
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I assume they have requested this to corroborate the claim you have submitted based on 2 hours of your time at your identified charge rate. Without challenging your submittal (as I assume it to be correct) It would be easy for any person off the street to say they had spent 2 hours of their time at a salary rate of say £1000 / hour.
Now whilst I am unclear why they need 2 years as I would have believed 1 to be sufficient, you must realise that this request has some merits or without these checks this could become the next big scam in the area of insurance along with "where there's blame there's a claim".
Carse
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If you're making a claim against another, and his insurers are acting in his place, then it's proper for them to ask you to justify your claim.
You might want to consider how you show it was time you lost from working, rather than non-earning time; and how you reach an hourly rate for any earnings lost.
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Given that I charged £10/hr less than a local indy garage charges, I'm not sure it's a "rip-off". My plumber also charges more than the £45/hr I asked for....
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I thought it would be like that ly. They're taking it. Damn cheek if you ask me. You have my sympathy.
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Still, I've now fired off a letter to the Head of Customer Services. She'll be paid £100k/yr, so it costs them about £200k yr to keep her, so that's £125/hr. If she takes 15 minutes on it, plus her secretary's time etc, that'll cost them another £50 to process it. Plus she'll probably tell the claims dept. to stop messing about, and pay up!
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- if they require an accountant's letter then this will be an additional £30 say!
I charge £50 + vat for such letters - but you could recover that from the insurer!
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No wonder insurance is so expensive.
"Oh, it all makes work for the working man to do ..."
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I'm wondering if they queried your claim (or asked for cast iron documentary proof) because your 'per hour' earnings looked out of sync with your vehicle? I don't know either your job or car course, but just a hypothesis. Put bluntly, if you'd been driving an recent XJ6 they may have jumped at your £90(?) lost earnings claim - & the converse if you'd been driving a 10 year old runabout.
From a business POV though, it seems entirely correct to ask for proof - just standard business practice.
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Are you claiming that you lost time from your business, or are you claiming for your personal time?
If it's the latter, then I don't see what your earnings have to do with it - why should someone who is a low paid employee value their personal time differently from someone who is a high paid employee?
Edited by Bill Payer on 10/12/2007 at 18:45
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put the shoe on the other foot.
You have an accident, its your fault. You cause £2000 of damage to the car. The other person claims for the damage and £10,000 for the time he's spent dealing with the claim.
You claim that this is excessive, he says not. What would you expect your insurance company to do next? There's some possible options:-
Decide that £5,000 per hour is perfectly reasonable and pay him for his lost time.
Decide that he really should be paid £5.35 per hour
Ask him to prove his hourly rate.
--
I read often, only post occasionally
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I'm one of the exceptions to life - I don't drive a car in keeping with my house value or my income. All my customers are in California, so they never see my car. I live down a muddy track, and I have three dogs. £35k worth of A6 estate does not make sense. Added to which I'm from Lancastrian stock ;-)
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I have always charged companies like this less then my normal charge out rate, when they query it I just tell them I am happy to charge them my full rate if they prefer!!! It has always worked in the past for me. The reason I do it like that is so if it were to ever end up in the small claims court it looks far better to the Judge if I was not charging my full rate - never had to take it that far yet though!!!! All the companies involved have been happy to pay the £35ph I have claimed off of them!
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If she takes 15 minutes on it, plus her secretary's time etc, that'll cost them another £50 to process it.
He/she is unlikely to earn the amount you imagine.
Even if it was that amount, the Company has to pay him/her their wages whether or not your letter is sent and/or read and/or binned.
Anyhow, wrong person to write to. You need to write to a Board member for anyone to take any notice.
Better still, write to the 3rd party and tell them to pay up or else you go to court!
Edited by jbif on 10/12/2007 at 19:09
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Just a different slant.
I have been made aware of a Police Officer who nipped out in their lunch break in their own car and was involved in a collision.
Somehow it was found that they were not covered to drive in their break because for Police Officers a lunch break is a concession and not a right. It is therefore paid. And before anyone starts its 45min and not an hour!!
It was found that the Officer did not have buisness cover on their policy, they were driving for Police purposes and the journey was not 'to and from work'.
End result they would not pay out and probably a sheeting for 'No Insurance'.
Wonder if this lot are on a similar tack??
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Fullchat
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Fullchat's post reminds me of something many must have thought. The snivelling and crooked nature of insurance company small print is a national disgrace. Of course as any fule kno it's about squeezing a few more drops of blood out of the punter. Shouldn't be allowed.
It would not be difficult at all to have simple, no-nasty-surprises insurance. Indeed it might well cost less.
We are legally obliged to have insurance. Why do we have to buy it from a bunch of screaming crooked carphounds?
I've often wondered. The marvels of capitalism, innit?
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I have always charged companies like this less then my normal charge out rate, when they query it I just tell them I am happy to charge them my full rate if they prefer!!! It has always worked in the past for me...
Just how many accidents do you have that it becomes such a regular thing??
(or am I missing something here..?)
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Fullchat - I don't follow you - I'm claiming from the other party's insurance. I'm assuming he was covered for his trip from home to the station car park.
A few years ago a bank, not the one I then used, caused me to have to do about two hours sorting out of a problem that they had caused. I billed them for two hours. I got a cheque by return, with no quibbles.
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You've been lucky then! Sometimes my customers try the old "billing for my time" trick, it gets met with an outright and point blank refusal! I do offer some compensation if we're in the wrong, but I never get drawn into the paying for time thing.
It's always funny how everyone that phones me up is on £100 per hour in their day job and yet they seem to struggle with even the basic admin of household tasks... ;-)
That's not aimed at you by the way LY, it's more of a general observation.
Blue
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It seems to me that far from being a Jobsworth the person at the insurance company is doing his job properly and ensuring that any payments are fully justified. Payouts come from other policyholders, so its reassuring to know that the company are taking this action and helping to hold down premiums by protecting against possible fraud (I am not saying the the OP's payout is not justified, but it is just possible that some claimants might be dishonest and inflate their hourly rate.)
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Local,
You seem to be missing the point, you could be only claiming £10 per hour but how on earth do the insurance company know this is correct and this is what you currently earn without evidence.
You have to prove what you earn and therefore how out of pocket you are before anyone with any sense would consider your application, so as I mentioned further up the post they need proof.
Carse
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However, the rather basic idea of taking my profit figure and dividing it by 2000 (approx working hours in a year) supposes two things; 1) that I work full time, and 2) that I charge the same rate throughout the year, for all jobs, whether I have a backlog of work, or I'm desperate for work.
The two hours it took me to sort this out had to be done straight away. I could not leave it until after Christmas. Thus it's realistic to charge this at my "distress" rate, which could be anything between 150% and 200% of my "booked" rate, which is the rate I charge for work which is slated, but with a pre-agreed 14 day turn-around.
A neighbour is semi-retired, and still works 10 hours a week. He charges £90/hour, but the ins co. would assess his earning rate as 25% of that.
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I hope you'll be declaring your time payment to the tax man then?
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The two hours it took me to sort this out had to be done straight away. I could not leave it until after Christmas. Thus it's realistic to charge this at my "distress" rate which could be anything between 150% and 200% of my "booked" rate which is the rate I charge for work which is slated but with a pre-agreed 14 day turn-around.
No offence intended Local Yokel, but I feel that the insurance company might think you are trying to pull a fast one if you explain it like that to them.
Perhaps you could supply copies of a few invoices to reassure them?
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Local,
Taking your claim as justified, 150, 200% of what!!!. The insurance company do not know what you earn until you tell them and prove it.
As such their request for financial records still holds merit. Therefore not jobsworths just prudent.
Carse
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I wonder what the point of asking for advice is if one then argues against it.
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I would send them you Tariff on Headed note paper or ask them to get in touch with your accountant and point out that your account will bill them their standard rate.
They could easily rack an extra £200 in charges here. Watch the them go grey.
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Insurance companies are good at sniffing out the BS and fairytales. I can demonstrate what I earn and my hourly rate pretty easy - if you want the money then probably best to send them the info.
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