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Cute article in the German papers today. Apparently in order to save money, the 1 star generals P4 car rating was scrapped in favour of the "lower" P3 band. P4 meant Audi A4 or VW Passat while P3 meant BMW 3 series, Mondeo or Vectra. I have difficulty seeing the difference here - is an A4 more of a status symbol than a 3 series? How is a Passat better than a Vectra? Anyway, the bean counters decided that the expected savings involved were too small and the whole idea has been scrapped.
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BMW has always been seen as equivalent to Ford/Opel in Germany for as long as I can remember.
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I think Ford must be nudging ahead of BMW in the UK at least - given that the 325 very recently, was outselling the Mondeo. Mondeos, therefore, should be worth more, owing to the "rarity" value.
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Sorry, I MEANT to say the 3 series was outselling the Mondeo.
Makes yer fink.
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I think my reply to Pendlebury's posting, 'Toyota - More quality failures from Toyota', might better have been placed here.
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Toyotas just do not sell in Germany and a 3 series is about on a par with a rusty Ford Escort.
Audi A6 is the car to be seen in followed by an E class and the 5 series are owned by Bavarians or wannabes.But they still have a massive car industry and most people still by German made products where possible.
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In many areas of Germany,it is seen as more important to have the "latest" car on your driveway than the actual make.
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I suspect its simply a factual error hence the inclusion of the Passat alongside the A4. Becuase even in Germany, a Passat costs less than a 3 Series and people are unlikely to ever chose between a Passat and an A4.
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Can't recall who it is now, but I saw on TV recently an obviously wealthy German citizen who was choosing to drive an A8. Reminds me of the commentary I've seen in the past on this and other boards that Audis have most appeal there; from the build and paint quality of my erstwhile 100E, I can understand why, having owned MBs ever since.
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Audi's are generally better built than MB's of recent years. The 100E is obviously very old and built long ago ;-)
But the likes of Toyota/Honda/Ford etc. have moved forward on quality. VW is no longer the best in the mainstream cars. Then VW might become Porsche owned soon. Who'd have thought that.
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Does the 3-series figures include the estate and saloon models ONLY
or do they include the vert and the coupes?
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Does the 3-series figures include the estate and saloon models ONLY or do they include the vert and the coupes?
No, I'm sure they include the green ones!
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As much as I really like Audi, Mercedes Benz have now finally got their act together.They have spent an absolute fortune fixing up the quality problems. Certain people have been fired including the former boss. After asking round and generally doing my homework, I would put my money on a decent Mercedes Benz.
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"people have been fired including the former boss"
Think we'll find he went due to the Chrysler debacle.
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I don't blame the Germans if they are badge snobs. I know the new Ford Mondeo is an extremely good car and obviously the best in it's class. More power to Ford!!! I am genuinely not a snob; but I would never buy a new Ford Mondeo as I simply don't like it's looks.( The old Mondeo was good looking). Those lights at the back etc really don't look pretty. Obviously I wouldn't buy a car purely on looks; but I don't like the latest Seat Toledo ( I have the good looking and reliable old one). The Germans get their cars the heck of a lot cheaper than those people in the Republic of Ireland. I heard they buy Mercedes cheaper in Spain than Germany ( the car orrigionally coming from Germany.A German friend told me. If they can be bought cheaper, they are right to buy better looking German cars.Certain Mercs, BMWs and Audis hold their value well ( obviously not the largest engined ones). As I mentioned in a previous letter, MercedesBenz have fixed up their act.
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. As I mentioned in a previous letter MercedesBenz have fixed up theiract.
And didnt they jolly well need to cattleman.
Who says they have got everything sorted now?
I truly hope they have they make very desirable, handsome and powerful and very expensive cars, whether they now deserve the 'quality' description to be added remains to be seen.
Will be interesting to see how the current line up performs when they are 4 to 6 years old.
I'll be more convinced of a manufacturers belief in their own product when they start throwing 7 year warranties at them like Kia (included in the price not with a books worth of small print get out clauses to wade through).
I really do hope you are right i would love to get an E320 diesel about 3 or so years old when my old 124 eventually kicks the bucket.
Trouble is it might just see me out!
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gordonbennet. I fully understand what you are saying about MB. My Seat Toledo TDiSE just keeps going incredibly. I had definitely planned to replace it with a lounge on wheels; but between the Irish stockmarket collapse and the building slump in Northern Ireland, new cars have to wait. There are still an amazing number of E Class Mercedes in Dublin and BMWs.Many Mercedes E Classes are obviously second hand. My neighbour has just bought a 2002 BMW 5 series 525i from England.I see, that is the car thet Whatcar like secondhand.
It's a pity that both I and two other people didn't like the lack of upper back support in the new C Class MB. I prefer the back seat of my 1999 Toledo. They are planning to be horribly strict over here with car tax next year. Unbelievable.
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I'll be more convinced of a manufacturers belief in their own product when they start throwing 7 year warranties at them like Kia (included in the price not with a books worth of small print get out clauses to wade through).
I'm not sure warranties mean manufacturer's belief in their own product. It's more likely down to local incentive pool and marketing. For example - Ford Focus is offered with 2 years warranty in Czech or Poland and 5 year warranty in USA (and it costs half as much). Not much to do with reliability of the item though...
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[ Anything I drive can and will be used against me ]
Edited by v0n on 01/12/2007 at 17:23
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"MercedesBenz have fixed up their act. "
Not judging by the complaints they haven't warrant claims are just the same only difference is that agents have been given more money to spend on claims.
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