Wed 21 Nov 2007 21:29 Are the deals going to get better ? - Pendlebury

I was reading an article today that stated Toyota will be laying off the temporary contract staff, reducing overtime and adding 2 additional days to the normal summer shut down holiday as they need to cut back on production at Burnaston. It seems that the credit crunch and weakening economy is making selling cars more difficult. Are we about to see more better deals to attract us throughout next year I wonder. Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 21 Nov 2007 21:46 Are the deals going to get better ? - carl_a

It seems that the credit crunch and weakening economy is making selling cars more difficult. The reason they are selling less cars is because the new Auris isn't appealing in the slightest. Last Corolla was a move in the right direction, new car is a step back in some ways and it costs too much. Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 21 Nov 2007 21:57 Are the deals going to get better ? - bell boy

good point carl-a just been to the website and thought it was a pewgot + vehicle shown may not be to uk specification,wats that all about then eh? Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 21 Nov 2007 22:07 Are the deals going to get better ? - Ruperts Trooper

Why don't Toyota sell diesel automatics? These form a growing market segment but Toyota don't sell them, except the Land-Cruiser! They've got a diesel engine in most models and their Aisin-Warner division makes some of the best automatics, well able to handle diesel torque in other manufacturers' cars. Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 21 Nov 2007 22:39 Are the deals going to get better ? - Pendlebury

I agree with the comments above about the Auris but it applied to the Avensis as well. My understanding of Ruperts question above is that unlike most other car companies the Japanese, and Toyota and Honda in particular prefer to design and manufacture more of the car themselves - including gearboxes. That way they can control the quality better and this has once again been reflected in the latest Whatcar reliability survey - Honda and Toyota coming 1st and 2nd again. So rather than buy an automatic box from say ZF - like everyone else does, they manufacture their own gearboxes and a diesel requires a much stronger auto because of the torque. With the volumes they are likely to sell, it does not make that much sense to do it, although I hear that Honda will have an Accord diesel auto when the new model arrives but only on the 150bhp and not the 180bhp. I'm not sure there really is agrowing market for them especially as diesels become more complex and expensive with the proposed EuroV legislation. Europe and the UK where diesels are popular (for some strange reason) are not the biggest markets for Honda & Toyota. We are small fry compared to other markets in the US and increasingly Asia. Edited by Pendlebury on 21/11/2007 at 22:43 Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 21 Nov 2007 23:04 Are the deals going to get better ? - pd

If they're in the European market seriously - and they clearly are judging by their factories and investment in Europe then Honda and Toyota clearly need good diesels. In the Avensis sector about 80% of sales are diesels - even if only 10% of all buyers want an auto a diesel auto will account for 8% of sales. Until petrols match diesels on CO2 and fuel consumption sales will continue to grow regardless of the complexity issue (which is probably a bit of a red herring anyway because once petrols match this - which they probably will - they will also be a lot more complicated). With current fuel prices and CO2 tax issues the market will continue to vote with its feet. Whatsmore, if Mercedes start to make inroads in the US with their diesels - and with fuel $3.50/gallon and rising there they might - don't be surprised if the Japanese start introducing diesel to the US until and unless they can get petrol engines matching fuel consumption of diesels. Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 22 Nov 2007 09:34 Are the deals going to get better ? - Ruperts Trooper

Pendlebury - the point I was trying to make is that Toyota already make excellent high torque automatics for the rest of the world, why don't they use them in their own models? Aisin-Warner is a division of Toyota - AW front-wheel drive autoboxes are used by GM (Vauxhall, Opel, Saab, Holden), Volvo and recently Ford and Land-Rover. GM fit an AW autobox to the Isuzu-built 3.0CDTi so there's no problem handling the high torque. Diesel autos isn't the biggest sector but it is growing - Toyota don't have to develop anything, just sell what they already make! Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 22 Nov 2007 19:09 Are the deals going to get better ? - Pendlebury

>>Until petrols match diesels on CO2 and fuel consumption sales will continue to grow regardless of the complexity issue << I don't think that will remain the case after EURO V when the other emmissions factors are considered. CO2 is the dominant measure at the moment but when Nox and CO etc are targeted for reduction in the same manner then diesel will not be so popular IMO. Also if you consider the behaviour of our current government, as soon as EURO V move the goal posts and introduce targets for the other pollutants then I'm sure the government will start taxing diesel even more and also diesel company cars because they can do it in the name of the environment - knowing that they now have a captive ownership population to target. Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 22 Nov 2007 20:46 Are the deals going to get better ? - Vansboy

I don't know how they're doing for business, but the Toyota dealer in Luton has a heavy stockholding on their site. Everthing looks 'boring' & expensive, to me, despite having a reasonably comprehensive range. Bit of a contrast to the previous brand, there, Mazda. Always carried minimal stock, empty showroom, similar number of customers, too! VB Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 22 Nov 2007 21:50 Are the deals going to get better ? - rtj70

When choosing my new company car in July I was probably looking at the Mazda6 and the Avensis 2.2d T4. Why I got the Mazda6 before a proper test drive of the Avensis.... - There was a wait of over a month to get the Avensis for 48 hours - I got the Mazda6 and liked it - Short test drive of the Avensis... okay but really bland inside and out - My wife liked the Mazda - When an Avensis pointed out my wife did not like it So even we both knew I'd be about £20pm better off in the Avensis based on my calculations I ordered the Mazda6 and cancelled the Avensis test drive and told them why. Ironically the local Toyota business centre could lend me one straight away if they could supply the car (if ordered by me) but no it had to come from somewhere else. Then again the Mazda came from Leicester instead of Stockport. Suppose I should have got British built.... but they are so boring to look at. And I used to have the Mondeo! The new one next year might be more exciting.... and maybe that's the other reason for a cut in staff. Reply | Report as offensive | Link