I have never seen bonneted (like cars) lorries in UK.
In USA, they are in good numbers. I think many other parts of the world (incl. continental Europe) both cab forward and bonneted lorries/trucks are used.
Is there any legislation that they can't be used here?
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I see one regularly! It's a huge black recovery truck often seen around Essex. Apart from that one that I see all the time, they are very rare.
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I always assumed it was to do with legal restrictions on the overall length of the vehicle and manoeuvring in tight spaces in loading areas etc
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I would guess that forward visibility, size and manoeuvrability are against them in this country.
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Personally, I would like to see lorry cabs re-designed to position the driver at a similar height to car drivers, with a similar amount of forward protection.
We might then notice a distinct change in lorry driving style....... :-(
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No, they'll still overtake each other at 56mph on a motorway incline.
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OP: only cab forward lorries in UK
No, Scania sell a tractor with a bonnet. A local haulier has a few, but his are the only ones I've seen. I *think* there are MB, Volvo and some French tractors with bonnets too.
Edit: the reason you see so few of them is that the bonnet takes up extra space on the ferry. As hauliers pay by the foot, the shorter and taller their rig can be, the cheaper it is to ship the same load volume.
Edited by Gromit {P} on 10/10/2007 at 12:22
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mm rig
thats a big 10/4 on the answer there buddy
certainly sounds right......................im gone.........breaker /breaker
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They used to be standard here, like bonnetted buses and coaches.
Maybe the design does not justify the space taken by a relatively small engine; it is more efficient to stick it under the cab. American lorries have enormous engines capable of pulling trains of trailer trucks. They don't seem to have caught on here yet.
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As stated higher up the thread, it's length restrictions pure and simple. (19 metres rings a bell, but, perhaps that's a superceeded number, because I'm thinking back to the 1980's, before the weight restrictions were increased beyond 38 tonnes)
The very few bonneted trucks which you see on our roads typically are hauling some very dense material, and their trailers don't need to be full length - for example tankers containing cement powder.
The ferry reason is a bit of a red herring - most UK trucks never go on a ferry.
Number_Cruncher
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I used make and fit stainless HGV exhaust and CRT's and the only normal control tractor units I've seen have been Scania.
I don't think they have any advantages in the UK, because of our length limit.
They are a bit awkward to work on, IMO, as part of the engine is still under the cab front bulkhead.
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Aim low, expect nothing & dont be disappointed
Edited by Sim-O on 10/10/2007 at 13:28
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A pivate Haulage Contractor near Lancaster used to run a "long-nosed" Mac with a tipper trailer, haven't seen it for a while, don't know if he still has it.
Billy
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In Leeds there are a fleet of lorries like this which deliver crushed stone, I think. Very big, very red, and very shiny.
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I'd always assumed that the owners of 'American' trucks were trying to make the same 'style statement' as the owners of American cars :-)
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"Is there any legislation that they can't be used here?"
The main reason is that we have two lenghts to work to 16.5m overall length for an artic and a max 13.6 m for the trailer the thing is that bonnet pushes you over the 16.5m so you would break the C & U regs.
Scania sold the T cab model over here for a while but registered under 100 anuually and as they are mainly leased there was a residual problem.
Some tipper operators use them because the trailers tend to 12 m ones
hope that answers the question
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>>16.5m overall length for an artic
Yes, that is more like it - I don't know where I was getting 19m from!
Number_Cruncher
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I see a couple of bonneted trucks occassionally - usually they're hauling logs.
pedantry time:
the correct term is 'cab-over' as in that great song by CW McCall:
'cab-over Pete with a reefer on...'
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the correct term is 'cab-over' as in that great song by CW McCall: 'cab-over Pete with a reefer on...'
LandRovers with this configuration are called Forward Control.
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pedantry ^ 2
cab over means a truck without a bonnet - the cab is over the engine.
A bonneted truck may also be called a conventional type
Number_Cruncher
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driver sat over or infront of front wheels = Forward Control
driver sat behind front wheels = Normal Control
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Aim low, expect nothing & dont be disappointed
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The haulier I mentioned earlier who ran the Scanias-with-bonnets was in the bulk cement business too.
Overall length is a big issue here in Ireland as so many of our trucks *do* go on ferries. So much so that one of our biggest hauliers set up an office in Holland where much of their fleet - almost all left-hand-drive - is located.
Likewise, the new port tunnel linking Dublin Port to the M1 was built to standard EU size, and many of the trucks using the Ro-Ro ferries can't fit in the tunnel because they use high-sided trailers to maximise the load carried.
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Yes that is more like it - I don't know where I was getting 19m from!
some snipquoting
Could have been the 18m limit for a wagon and drag you were thinking of!!
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 10/10/2007 at 18:17
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There is one that is seen around telford quite a bit - used by a frainage firm with the muckman down the side of the unit. Also the other day i saw a big Peterbilt being used as a HGV recovery vehicle.
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Also the prevalence of US trucks with the bonnet design to me is another sign of alot of US manufacturers of anything ie we've always made it this way, it keeps it simple to make and our market is big enough to ignore what anyone else does in the world and does not require a need to be really clever with packaging/miniturisation etc.
I've always thought that alot of US engineering design is utilitarian almost military in style (ie big chunky and tough but not exactly stylish and certainly not always looking particularly modern) and lacks the neat engineered "modern" German or stylish Italian design. Look at their kitchen appliances even high end ones, building fitments (eg every single building seems to have the same shape of exit door), their trucks, their public buses, their fire engines.
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One of my family is a lorry buff (:-0 ) and he says its a case of "separate development" of which Darwin could have used as a classic case study.
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Manouverability is a lot of the problem the tractor will be longer both in length and wheelbase which obviously means less load length available and a much worse turning circle.
Any trucker worth his salt will tell you visibility down the front is a problem anyway (yes i know some modern trucks have a convex down mirror fitted at top of screen) but can you imagine how far the ''shadow'' blind spot would be looking over a 6 or 8 ft bonnet thats 8 ft high anyway.
And before the truck driver bashing brigade gets under full steam you want to try it yourself for a while and see just how stupid and suicidle some drivers (of any vehicle can be) , and yes i know there are brain dead truckers just as there are brain dead drivers of everything else
You cant really compare here with the US as watch any hollywood film when the small child/pram/injured hero/georgeous girl in underwear (sorry got carried away there) falls in the road you hear the air horns of the truck as it bears down but it can't stop cos US trucks don't have brakes so be glad you are here.....so there
ttfn
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>>Any trucker worth his salt will tell you visibility down the front is a problem anyway
Especially my cousin! He inadvertantly used our Scammell Crusader to push a Triumph Herald out into a roudabout. As he reached the head of the queue, he simply forgot the Triumph was there, and couldn't see it.
Number_Cruncher
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Scammells! now then! theres a name! come to think of it, near here there is a shipyard, on occasions pre-built lumps of ships are moved between fabrication areas to building areas, and these are moved by "heavy hauliers", these consist of huge trailers (with loads of axles) the rear -end of which is steered by a chap with a remote walking along side. The "tractor" units that haul these huge loads are always "long-nosed" scammells. Never seen a "flat-face" used for really Heavy Haulage/abnormal loads.
illy
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Also the prevalence of US trucks with the bonnet design to me is another sign of alot of US manufacturers of anything ie we've always made it this way it keeps it simple to make and our market is big enough to ignore what anyone else does in the world and does not require a need to be really clever with packaging/miniturisation etc.
The main reason is that most states have a maximum trailer length of 48 feet some states 53 (Don't ask) where as there is no overall rig length.. One other thing is genearally a US truck drives faster 65 mph is common and the amount of hours at the wheel is far greater 13 hour driving time is a minimum where as in the UK it's ten hours maximum and that's only allows twice weekly.
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Blimey NC now we are into scammells and yes i've had them in me time are we in danger of doing the ''when i was a lad routine'' if so can somebody dig out an old video of Monty Pythons Yorkshire chaps routine so we can get the correct lunacy content.
Don't want to get hit by a crusader anyway crumple zone measured in paint microns
ttfn
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gb
Crusaders were about not that long ago; I remember hauling a pile-driver to Manchester with one only....
Ooh 'eck! That was twenty years ago..... Doesn't time fly.
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Always remember ( when I were a lad oop north .....) the Pickfords abnormal loads were always hauled by long nosed Scammells.
The common lorries at that time when I waited by the old Great North Road for the bus to school used to be Foden, Atkinson and Guy which were all flat fronted and then there was the Thames Trader with a small protruding front mini bonnet.
The only bonnetted lorry I have seen locally in Sussex was being driven by Chrith Eubank in the middle of Brighton main shopping area on a Saturday a few years back with much airhorn blasting and waving.
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Scammells....... starter buttons........ must lie down.......
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A Trader was officially semi forward control.At one time Ford built forward control(D-series) and normal control(K-series???) at the same time-there was little demand for normal control but servicing was much easier.To service a forward control,you need a tilt-cab or a complete cab removal.In the States many trucks will have four to six different registration plates to take advantage of different tax/load/length regimes in the various states.
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helicopter
He takes it out to show off whenever his ego is running a bit low.
Maybe one day he'll learn to drive it and get a LCV licence.....
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Screwloose,
Actually your forum name would be well applied to the lithping one.....
I'm not sure if he still has the truck or could even afford the fuel.
At the time he had earned about £10 million.
He was declared bankrupt a couple of years ago by the taxman owing £1.3 million....
His wife has divorced him.
He lost his house and all his assets so he may yet end up driving trucks for a living.
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helicopter
I think he still has his Peterbilt "Preening Posers Special-Edition." [5th wheel removed; so he can "drive" it on his ordinary car licence.]
So, with his record of regularly hitting things with it, if he wants to earn as a driver; he'll only have two problems.
Getting insurance and finding someone mad enough to let him near their [under 7.5t] truck!
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