Hi there,
Earlier on today a traffic light changed in front of me. As I stopped I am pretty sure I was flashed by a red light camera behind me despite stopping before the line. It seemed to only flash once though.
I can't be 100% sure it was the light behind or the one opposite me flashing another car as it was raining heavily at the time and I was busy concentrating.
Does anyone know whether they only flash once?
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They surely have to flash twice? Once with the light red, and you before the line in the road. The second with the light still red, but you having driven on over the line. Don't see how they could work with only one flash.
I pass 3 of these every time I drive to work, and think they must be entirely fair, even if it means people won't move out of the way for emergency vehicles.
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even if it means people won't move out of the way for emergency vehicles.
You would have to be fatuously stupid and self-important to imagine the minuscule risk of trouble for jumping a light outweighed dealing with some emergency, perhaps a life-threatening one. People should be banned from driving for refusing to get out of the way under those circumstances.
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...the minuscule risk of trouble for jumping a light outweighed dealing with some emergency perhaps a life-threatening one.
I remember seeing an article in the paper not too long ago whereby a driver had contested a red light summons as he thought he had a good case, seeing as though he had moved out of the way slightly for an ambulance with the blues and two's on.
Evidence gathered by his brief confirmed that there was indeed an ambulance, and that the said ambulance was carrying a heart attack victim at the time, and time was precious.
Nevertheless, the court, in the wisdom that is synonymous with this forsaken country, suggested that this was not a valid enough reason to avoid the red light charge, and the charge was upheld.
It's for this reason why I detest these cameras even more than speed cameras, as, if the same scenario happened to me, I would feel under tremendous pressure to do the right thing, but would have the tut tutting of the state at the back of my mind.
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>>> ...the minuscule risk of trouble for jumping a light outweighed dealing with some emergency perhaps a life-threatening one.
>>>Nevertheless, the court, in the wisdom that is synonymous with this forsaken country, suggested that this was not a valid enough reason to avoid the red light charge, and the charge was upheld.
And sad as it is, I am in the latter camp. I know that morally it is wrong but it is my licence and I will not be pushed out of the way by an emergency vehicle at lights for the very reason that I might get flashed.
I would like to know if a police office would prosecute you for obstruction if you did not move out of the way though. A sort of damned if you do, damned if you don?t scenario.
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Zippy
If the police officer is right behind you in a car and leaves his lights and siren on, then you could justifiably claim that you crossed the line after being directed to do so by a police officer in uniform. [One of the times when it is legal to cross a red.]
If the police officer was on foot, then surely it's incumbent upon him to direct the traffic so as to assist the progress of the emergency vehicle.
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If the police officer is right behind you in a car and leaves his lights and siren on then you could justifiably claim that you crossed the line after being directed to do so by a police officer in uniform. [One of the times when it is legal to cross a red]
I looked this up last time there was a discussion on this subject. Only an officer 'engaged in directing traffic' can authorise a motorist to ignore a red light etc.... driving a patrol car is not directing traffic, so that would be a no-no
law needs amending...or a healthy dose of common sense in the police criminal justice unit.. or failing that......at magistrates court to be found guilty, but end up with an absolute discharge
where oh where has common sense gone nowadays?
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law needs amending...or a healthy dose of common sense where oh where has common sense gone nowadays?
Cheer up Westpig, there must be quite a lot of it about, or so one would hope if caught up in one of these not-quite-nightmare scenarios...
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i suspect you're right, only the odd one gets reported, suitably hyped up by the press for a good old healthy dose of sensationalism to sell the rag
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WP
The law is clearly a bigger ass than even I thought.... Thanks for the clarification though; a really useful bit of down-to-earth info.
Now; if the car refuses to move, could you then nick the driver for obstructing you? You've doubtless met plenty who would sit there deliberately even if they could, legally, just move over a bit.
Common sense isn't as common as it used to be. The dead hand of total central control leaves no room for on-the-spot initiative.
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Now; if the car refuses to move could you then nick the driver for obstructing you? You've doubtless met plenty who would sit there deliberately even if they could legally just move over a bit.
interesting point.......i'd suggest that it would be difficult to get a conviction on someone who blocked a police car at a red light and who stated " i didn't move because the officer did not have the authority to move me on and i didn't want to fall foul of the law"...although strictly speaking they could be obstructing the officer in the execution of their duty...
it needs a lawyers input......PU?
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If you stopped before the white line you will be fine. These cameras are triggered by sensors in the road after the white line.
--
2007 Seat Altea XL 2.0 TDI (140) Stylance
2005 Skoda Fabia vrS
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I thought they needed to flash twice.
What I wondered was whether there was a sensor just before the white line that 'got' you in case you went through, and therefore flashed the once. I had to pull up quite sharply when it turned amber, when I suppose I could have just about got through in time, but with the camera there I didn't want to take the chance.
I've always wondered whether they flash only if you go over the line at red. If you are already into the junction and the lights turn are you safe, for want of a better word?
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I got caught by one of these things once, at the Angel junction. I can't remember how many times it flashed, but it got me anyway.
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Speed cameras need to flash twice to produce two timed images that confirm the distance travelled along the road markings. Traffic light cameras don't; if you crossed the line more than 2 seconds after the red - you're nicked.
Was this a simple single set of lights, or a double set on a staggered juction?
The A24/A272 set is a classic for people stopping at the second set of reds and getting flashed for crossing the first.
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In terms of moving for emergency vehicles, I *think* that they only trigger if your whole car goes across the white line, so you could just go forward enough to clear a space but hopefully not fully over the line. As many of the junctions have cycle boxes etc there will often/usually be plenty of space to do this.
Also, presumably the operator will check the picture to see that you have actually gone through the junction, so I'd hope that if you have stopped a couple of feet over the line but still well out of the crossing traffic then you would have a good case to get off the fine.
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"Also, presumably the operator will check the picture to see that you have actually gone through the junction"
See my comment... a colleague years ago was in this situation in Scotland. Football fans started piling out and he felt intimated. So he moved forward but did not drive through.... light flashed and 3 points and fine followed.
So it looks like they do not check you want through... but how would they with the photo showing you at the point your car crossed the sensors?
Same colleague in Bootle got stopped for police (a few weeks earlier) for doing 47 in a 30.... his immediate defence was "I thought it was a 40"... so why doing 47 :-)
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"I had to pull up quite sharply when it turned amber"
At the speed limit, if as you approached, it turned amber and time to safely (not emergency/sharply) stop you should drive through without a problem. Too close to the traffic lights at that point at the speed limit then safe to drive through.
If approaching above the speed limit then when it turned amber not so much time to stop... and you say "pull up sharply".... And it will be amber for a few seconds for drivers to stop or go through as necessary. Why didn't you continue? Or maybe too fast but not close enough to get through in time*
Assuming not speeding .... none of us would ;-) ... then you must be okay. You stopped before the lights. Or did you cross the sensor? I know someone who moved across traffic line because of football fans crossing the road - he felt threatened... traffic lights camera then flashed and he was done. Another 3 points for him.
* = some traffic light cameras are now also speed cameras using the road sensors when lights green to catch speeding cars... :-) You have to love 'em.
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One of the crucial skills when driving briskly in urban areas is to react instantly and correctly to what is going on at the next junction - traffic lights, exiting traffic, etc. If you have to brake anything other than very gently, you have done something wrong (or, more rarely, someone else has).
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All the photos I have seen of these have the rear wheel on the line on the first picture.
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Sorry for the delay in replying. Problames with the computer at home!
The camera was on a simple, not staggered junction. Had there not been a camera on the junction I would have probably gone through, and done so safely on amber. I guess that because I didn't know exactly how the cameras worked it made me err on the side of caution. At that particular time I wasn't speeding as it was raining very heavily and the traffic was reasonably heavy, although there was nothing behind me at the time
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does going through a red light mean £60 and three points? if so i should of thought it a more serious offence than say doing 35 in a 30 and getting done by a speed camera as your guaranteed to have an accident at a junction more or less
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That's what it cost me milkyjoe. Obviously though I didn't have an accident. If it would have caused an accident I wouldn't have driven through the red light :o).
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If it would have caused an accident I wouldn't have driven through the red light :o).
but officer i didnt mean to kill him /her but i thought it would be ok to pull the trigger
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No one was killed. No one thought they were going to be killed. No one's life or limb was at risk. Just my wallet and my good reputation.
How will I ever hold up my head again?
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