I am checking up what people actually think about these two cars. I am mainly interested in the smaller engine versions. I know Mercedes are supposed to have got their act together and ripted out bad electrics. ( I know that has been done). I also heard that BMW have fixed up their electrical problems with the 5- series. I have heard the I-Drive is now a lot better with it's 8 added buttons.
I really like the look of the most recent versions of both these two cars. Mercedes has the quieter design where as the BMW 5 series is still a very modern design.
I would be genuinely interested about what people with experience think?
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Hi Cattleman.
well here goes i agree with you they are both pleasing to the eye and i daresay they will both be very competent drives. Mercs of the present do look good and the BM didn't do much for me at first but its grown on me and i think its probably the more handsome of the two...externally, apart from the front which looks unfinished. Inside though in my opinion the Merc is refined and more individual whereas the BM seems to be following the standard format for design..my opinion only and beauty is in the eye etc.
We are told that both marques have sorted out their issues, meself i'll wait and see what the reports are in 3 or 4 years time obviously depending on the year of car you are contemplating and the time you intend to run it.
Just to stir things a little have you looked at Lexus recently you would be surprised at just how good they are, with a longevity potential that would make designers of old mercs take notice, and very refined and reliable. We all know that the japanese can make electrical systems of astonishing reliability and the cars under scrutiny are crammed to the gunnels with gizmos.
Be intersting to see how others think.
Brian
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gordonbennett. Thanks very much for taking the trouble to answer me. I think with both these cars it is very important to choose the right colour. The other things though are even much more important though!! I personally would take a very long time to get used to BMW's I-Drive. I would be very interested in hearing more about the now improved I-Drive. I admit both these cars go much better with the much bigger engines; but we have to be sensible because of polution and taxes unfortunately but rightly so.
I have only sat in the small Lexus IS, and I found it definitely has the wow factor.I loved the driver's seat and the fit and finish of the car ( cream inside) seemed superb.Having been on a very enjoyable holiday to Japan in April '06 and talking to a relative who has worked there for many years,it would be hard to believe that the Japanese would be careless assembling a Lexus. To go back to what I said about the IS lexus, it was sadly very cramped for adults in the rear. What a shame they didn't make it larger, but with the same good looks. Personally I liked the look of the smaller IS 250 and 220D SE better than the bigger Lexus which challenges the E Class etc.The rear of the larger Lexus takes getting used to. My family disagreed with me.They also have fallen in love with the looks of the recently revamped and updated version of the 5 series( they improved it very recently). I certainly think that the new people in charge of Mercedes have been going to incredible lengths to get things right.
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I am checking up what people actually think about these two cars.
correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you already had?
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=55429
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Dynamic Dave. I did ask questions before and people kindly gave me their oppinions which I greatly appreciated. I would never exactly duplicate the thread and waste people's time. That's not me!
I am very seriously considering one of these cars, I needed to find out more detail. I needed to know if the new revision of the 5 seies has properly fixed the working of the I-Drive and made it very easy to use, also I wanted to know more about the base models in each case, as that is what I will go for.They cost a lot and I want to make the right decision.
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Having had both as company cars over the last few years (E270 CDI A/G auto estate, 525d M Sport touring auto and 535d SE touring auto) my preference is for the BMW, simply because it does not feel its size. The facelifted 'E' class may well be better in this respect than the '04 version I had however.
But...I am somewhat younger than the target customer for these cars, so if handling and general 'chuckability' are not critical to you the MB has by far the best ride IMO. The interior is also nicer I think and, as an estate, far better thought out. For example, on both cars the rear roller blind lifts automatically when the tailgate is opened. Only the MB closes it though; in the BMW it stays 'up', obscuring vision through the rear, unless manually pulled back down. Likewise the MB has a dash warning to indicate if the rear seats are not secure, far nicer interior lighting and a better standard stereo.
There are other small details that make the MB a nicer car to live with as well - for example, both BMWs and the MB I had came with headlamp wash. In the BMW this is triggered every 4th or 5th time the screen wash is operated; on the MB it was operated seperately and could be used when needed - sometimes every time the screen was washed; sometimes not needed at all!! It's also got more rear legroom and, as an estate at least, a far larger boot. Interior plastics were better in the MB, though the recent 'facelift' ( LCI in BMW speak IIRC) might have addressed this. Lower spec 5 series come with pretty basic a/c controls, so if looking at a 520d make sure you've actually seen this, as the 6 cylinder ones come with far better climate control.
My summary? The MB was a nice, big, comfy cruiser; the BMW feels like a super-sized 3 series... :-)
HTH
Peter
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Peter S. I really appreciate the trouble you went to with your letter. It is very imformative and is of very great help to me.Reading this I would go for a Merc. E Class. Recently when they were testing the new C Class in Ireland where cars are vastly more expensive because of VRT tax etc. They actually mentioned that a lot of people may go for an E Class 200 rather than a C Class. I personally think the extra space and comfort make the E Class a lovely car.
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Cattleman6...
With the all new Meredes Benz E Class due in 2009 I would not personally be minded to consider the current model E Class.
Have you considered the Jaguar XF as a possible contender?....I wasn't too keen initially but I have to admit that it is starting to grow on me. I will certainly be looking at it 'in the metal' before I make my own ultimate decision.
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Geordie1. With stock markets the way they are at present, I will definitely have to wait before I buy a new car. I won't be rushing it. The all new E Class will be superior to the present one I have no doubt. I know when I visited a place in Northern Ireland, they said the residuals of the older E Class will be affected because of the newer larger E Class coming out.I know they will probably charge a bit more for the new one. I will look at the Jaguar XF. Thanks very much for giving me those tips, I appreciate it.
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You're clearly smitten with MB, Cattleman, to judge from your recent threads. Therefore, surely the real question isn't MB vs BMW (or anything else) but rather which Benz to go for.
If depreciation really mattered, you'd buy a Skoda Superb which would honestly give you all the build quality a Mercedes *should* have (and many recent ones haven't judging from the comments of knowledgeable owners and enthusiasts here) at half the price. The Superb would have to be worth exactly *nothing* after 5 years to leave you more out of pocket than an E class would!
I don't say this to be irritable, merely to put the logic of buying a premium priced car out of concern for residual values reported by a dealer who's hoping to make a sale in context.
So, which Benz? Considering the two-litre tax threshold in Ireland, it makes sense to buy a 180 or 200 model. Even the 200 is underpowered in an E Class, and the 180 was inadequate for the previous model C class. Factor in that the new C is out, but the E is due for replacement, and that's pretty much the logical decision made for you: a C200 Kompressor (petrol with mechanical supercharger) or C200 Diesel, depending on what mileage you expect to do.
Personally, I'd prefer an auto - especially if MB have retained the foot-operated parking brake - but that's something you can decide after the test drive.
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thanks very much for your very good points " Gromit{p}". I realise what you say makes absolute sense. At my time of life and indeed I spend a lot of time in cars on longish runs as well as horrible city driving. With Mercedes I would definitely get an automatic. I imagine that the new 220 diesel E class would definitely be O.K. I can't help it, I always particularly like the new improved and fixed up E Class. My family fancy the 5 series because of the more sporty look.As I mentioned I won't be rushing in to buying imediately. Many thanks!
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I normally love light metalic blues; but both the 5 series BMW and the E Class Mercedes look superb in either very dark blue or black ( has to be very clean and shiny though).The Mercedes also seems to suit off silver colours I think. Colour matters more than one might at first think. I wonder what people's favourite colours are? I think in the UK a little time ago silver metalic was favourite ( also for resale value) and black has made a big comeback.
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I had 2 black BMWs. Avoid it.
Looks great when new/polished and scratch free. That's it.
Impossible to keep looking good without at least 1hour/week and then you get swrils in the paint or laquer which show. And stone chips...and touching up..
Silver is a far more forgiving colour.. and imo suits MB .
madf
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madf. You are right. I have a dark blue car and every little bit of dirt and scratches show on it. I have to try to keep it clean and polished. I often don't succeed. I think silver ( slightly mushroom or very very light brownish and gold mix in the silver) very poular MB colours I have noticed. Sorry my discription isn't great, my apologies. I hired a C Class with a very slight light gold brown tint in the metallic silver paint ( a very popular colour). Dirt hardly showed on it!!
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I hired a C Class ....
What did you think of the C Class?
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Bill Payer. I actually loved the 200 CDI C Class with manual gearbox ( the older shape) which I hired for 12 days and did more than 1,000 miles of everyday very heavy rush hour city traffic with lots of roadworks etc and potholes together with plenty of motorway longish distance runs. I became really fond of that car. I also test drove a new shape 200 Elegance C Class auto.Very nice to drive.
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They seem to be selling a large number of new 5 series BMW in Dublin and a great deal in Northern Ireland. Many are the 520 D.
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I just did a thorough investigation checking the E class Mercedes and the 5 series BMW in a few dealers near and out a little bit from Dublin. Really both these cars are absolutely superb if you get the right engine etc etc.
There is an interesting article if one prints in to the Google search " Businessweek Mercedes" and then go down and click on the heading " Mercedes Gains, But Still Lags Rivals". To be honest i would love either of these cars today!!! Unfortunately I must wait a little longer.
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I would say if you enjoy driving and want sporty handling with sharp steering and firm ride go for the BMW. If you want a good a-b car that is a comfortable old bus go for the Merc. Go for the diesel in either, i.e Merc 220/270cdi or BMW 520d/525d although the twin turbo 535d is a cracker.
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Rocketron. Thanks for the interesting information you mentioned. I actually wrote a nice letter just now and it vanished!!! Such a nuisance! I''ll try again.
The other day I went and investigated major dealerships outside Dublin for both of these cars: Firstly I visited a Mercedes place out in the country. They had a lovely new E Class. The driver's seat was extremely well contoured and very supportive. Of course it was the 200 E class at a very high price. It is a superb car. I know the ride is best with Mercedes; but I don't think they have a special deal with servicing like BMW.
I went to a BMW dealer just south of Dublin. They had a lovely second hand 525 D auto an '07 model with very little mileage.Lovely black-dakota leather seats etc etc. They were knocking about 10,000 euro off the orrigional new price. I know the 525D automatic is a better than the popular 520D with manual gearbox.Unfortunately I had to let it go!!!!! I think though this type of car almost new second hand ( ex manager) is worth looking out for.
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So Cattleman6 are you buying a new car? You've been talking about a new C-Class and now E-Class/5-Series and saying how good they all are. Are you after a new car :-)
You're also the most polite poster I've ever seen on here or anywhere. A real gentleman to be honest. You thank all responses. I'm just getting curious about what you might buy now ;-)
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rtj70. I definitely plan to buy either an E Class or a 5 series. I will probably go for the BMW 5 series, as they do have that special package with servicing. I do quite a large mileage so it probably would benefit me. The new recently facelifted 5 series really looks refreshing.
Both cars are expensive; but the Mercedes E Class is more expensive to run ( particularly servicing).
I had a visiting relative with me, and we also thoroughly investigated the new C Class again and the 316 BMW. The C class is extremely well put together; but both of us really didn't like the back seat. The support for the upper backisn't great. We also saw the most basic 3 series. In Dublin you can buy a 316. Again I wouldn't want to do 1,000 miles sitting in the back. Both the C Class and the 3 series are lovely well made cars though. I have to carry adults in the back often, so the most basic E class or indeed the more basic 5 series would be best. I love the styling of both these cars.
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This Christmas I have to visit Cape town for a week. My wife got a special deal on a hired car. I am booked to hire a BMW 3 series automatic. It will be very interesting, as I test drove a Mercedes C Class automatic and thoroughly liked it. So many times one doesn't get the car one orders though. One must live in hope!!
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Rocketron. I forgot to mention, I found all the seats back and front in the BMW 5 series are very comfortable and supportive ( the whole way up the back).
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I know this particular thread is suposed to be about the bigger cars; but let's mention a thing or two briefly about their " smaller brothers".I genuinely felt that the new C Class Merc. felt slightly better built than the 3 series BMW when I sat in both the other day. The back seat of the C Class slopes back quite a bit; but I felt they could have had a tiny bit more support higher up the back.What an absolute shame, as I love the car. I am not the slightest bit snooty I can assure you, but I wouldn't buy a 316 BMW. That model felt very much baseline. I am sure the better engined 3 series also feel on a different planet and have a much better feel inside the cabin.I know the 3 series has an enormous and deserved reputation worldwide; but I would go to a cheaper make with a better engine rather than buy a 316. I know they did it to sell more cars and of course to escape crippling tax. They are also thinking of mass company car sales of course. I do have respect for the company though. I see, the best buy on the executive market second hand in the UK is the 5 series ( the model just before Bangle changed it). Someone I know in Dublin has just bought an '02 one in the UK. Very sensible choice.
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Cattleman6...
Be aware that (as previously outlined in my earlier post in this thread) in addition to the new E Class due in 2009, a new 5 series is also planned for early 2009.
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Geordie1. Thanks for that Geordie1. I've been looking at pictures of them on internet. Amazing, they always seem to be making the cars bigger!! I actually notice at Dublin airport when I have to pick up relatives from a plane from the UK, that the larger cars can't fit in the parking bays.
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Actually if one prints in " new Mercedes E Class 2009" in to the Google search, then the heading which shows the address " cars.uk.msn.com" that shows the best picture.
If one puts in the same heading only for the BMW , worldcarfans has an interesting photo. Sorry I am a total novice at computers, I letting you know where I saw the best pictures so far. I am afraid that the new car will have to wait a good while in my case.
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Cattleman6...
If I were you, I'd buy the current E-class, NOT the new one 2009 model. Sure, it might be way better at first glance, but full of niggles etc. Do you really want to be a "guinea pig" for them? Just think of all those problems current model had on its launch few years back.
E200 Kompressor is very underpowered, you need a decent V6 to move that barge - a 3.0 litre will suffice, which they call E280 apparently, for some reason. If you're into diesels, the E320 CDI would be ideal or - if money is an issue - E220 CDI. The first one comes with lovely 7G-Tronic autobox as standard, the second one - manual (5-speed auto is optional here, 7-speed NOT available.) And don't forget the AIRMATIC suspension - it's a must !
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Free enterprise is the basis of western democracy.
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Oh, and another thing - don't even think the new 2009 model will come with less than 6 cylinders, they plan to get rid of ordinary 4-pots this time once and for all.
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Free enterprise is the basis of western democracy.
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Oh and another thing - don't even think the new 2009 model will come with less than 6 cylinders they plan to get rid of ordinary 4-pots this time once and for all.
I have seen that reported elsewhere but I would be very surprised if it were true.
1. I believe that the E220CDI is the biggest selling model of the current range.
2. In order to reduce emissions MB are looking at smaller engines combined with hybrid drive so 4 cylinder engines are highly likely.
3. There is a new 4 cylinder twin turbo diesel around the corner producing 204 hp. MB previewed this engine in the C250 Bluetec at the Frankfurt motor show (due for launch in 2009). I'd be surprised if there wasn't going to be an E250 Bluetec as well.
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In view of the last two very informative posts, I have taken everything in and am very greatful. It is interesting , that in the which report on reliability, the E Class proved more reliable than the 5 Series BMW. However the Audi A6 got the best position coming top in it's class. In the repoert on smaller cars, the BMW 3 series beat everything including the Lexus IS etc etc. Credit where it is due I always say. To be honest, I take an interest in these reports; but the individual manufacturers are always trying to update and often improve. I wouldn't buy a car on the basis of a report though.
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rjr wrote:
"I believe that the E220CDI is the biggest selling model of the current range."
Nope, the E320 CDI is. The 220CDI - which is actually a pumped-up version of a 2-litre 200CDI - is very popular in the new C-class, though.
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Free enterprise is the basis of western democracy.
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Nope the E320 CDI is.
The E220 CDI accounts for nearly half of all UK E-Class sales and outsells the E320 CDI by around 4 to 1.
The 220CDI - which is actually a pumped-up version of a 2-litre 200CDI - is very popular in the new C-class though.
Strictly speaking the 200CDI is a detuned version of the 220CDI which is actually a 2.1l rather than a 2.0l.
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You all probably know that there are very nice photos of both cars at:
www.netcarshow.com/mercedes-benz/
www.netcarshow.com/bmw/
I have seen quite a lot of 220D E Class Mercs. There are a lot of 200 E Class in Ireland.
I see a great number of 5 series BMW. The 520D is a giant seller here. An '07 second hand 525D would be much better. ( I recently saw such a car with black dakota leather seats).
I notice, that the inside wood trim in the E Class is superbly done.
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cattleman6, you sure you're not my wife's uncle at 83 years old talking about cars ;-) You're sounding like him more and more everytime you post.
I'd hope none of us would buy a car at this price range on looks alone. It has to be comfortable, perform well and handle as well. And you talk of nice photos we can all find on the BMW/Mercedes websites in better quality.
Either buy one of these or don't. But what have your postings added? Sorry to be harsh but you are very polite but don't half ramble on. Your posts go back months now.
Sorry.
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rtj70. I have every intention of buying one of these cars. I am certainly not buying them on looks alone. I know exactly what I am doing, I just wanted more information about them. Have a good day, I have my job to do.
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After my last post and my email via a mod....
I just typed a lengthy reply and it's vanished. Knowing we can lose text I wanted to copy so did "Control C" but it all went pearshaped.... and it was lengthy.
So will precise:
- I like MB styling inside and out over and above BMW - have they lost the plot? Audi doing what they did now..
- I like to press buttons to do something. Central console on BMW is to "clever" with their controller.
- I prefer Audi styling and function inside (e.g. MMI) and outside too.. but that is me.
- Colleague has an Audi A6 diesel quattro and it's really something to consider - 4wd
- New A4 on the way which shares architecture with the A5 and internal trim
- Do you need more than 2 doors... new A5 is pretty good.
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rtj70. Thanks very much for your interesting and informative post. I sat in an A6 the other day and it was jolly comfortable. I love the E Class; but as I mentioned before I am scared of servicing costs. I wish they had an all inclusive servicing package like BMW.
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I think the current E-class is a beautiful car. I have been chauffered a few times in a 2006 E320CDi (the private hire guy we use for airport pickups at our European HQ has one), and it's swift, silent and beautifully finished. People criciticise Benzes of late, but this car just oozes quality, and feels expensive. It's also done 85,000 km without a single problem.
Cheers
DP
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04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
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DP. It is really nice to read your letter. I love the understated side of the beautiful E Class design. I so much appreciate a letter from someone who has had so much experience with the car. I genuinely think that the main top people at Mercedes are now doing a fantastic job.Every E Class I have had a pleasure to ride in I have been overcome by the beautiful cabin and the comfortable ride. I can assure you, that saying that whilst living in Dublin means something.So many roads here are in the transition stage with awful potholes; but some lovely new toll roads have been built. I had such a good return run up to Northern Ireland yesterday.New roads make it so much quicker.
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Hi,
I was trying to get a comparison with my car VS a BMW i8 I know that sounds a little crazy, but I have a real beauty, a ten year old E class Facelift, i bought for a comparitive steal at only a year and a half old from a main dealer. I love this car, and it's won so well, the only think that failed (the E class's achilles heel) is the From coils had to be replaced, one snapped at 74K miles, but apart from this, happy days of ownership, she returns about 42 to 48 MPG, and has a load of usefull Twist (540NM) at the rear wheels. Just to safisfy my morbid curiousity, I am having a test drive in a BMW i8 soon, to see if there is any kind of comparison? I so love my baby, I doubt I'd ever really give her up. A friend had the "beemer 5" 530I Diesel, I didnt think it compared much, I have heard that the 5 is more of an interatbion, can be thrown around a bit more,, by my E 320 has served me so well, the handlings not too shabby, and I have a new toy in that my Androud links to the Torque app to give me readings from my OBC2 port to get a few tech. type guages . I as a chauffer (while struggling to gain an IT service contract, I'm an IT technician and field engineer by qualification), a while ago drove a 6 month old Jaguar XF, it was breaking down all around from a technical point of view, so i would avaid these too. Another Mercedes owned (had the new E class) said in a BP garage, "Mate your E is weay better than mine" so that was also a good feeling, I am not so keen on the square new shaped ones.
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They're completely different cars.
If you can afford £100,000 for a BMW i8, you can probably afford to keep your E-class for every day and reserve the i8 for 'best'.
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