Having three kids the youngest of which is now on a booster seat I was surprised at HJ's advise reagarding child seats in Sat's DT, I quote:
"Never, ever rely on an inertia-reel belt to locate a child seat"
Having researched and invested in childseats over a 13 year period I am really not convinced that this is sound advise because this is how the majority of child seats are designed to fit into cars and we have many friends and relations that locate child seats in this way.
HJ, a clarification would be appreciated?
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Last year, at some great expense, our mag carried out extensive tests on 8 different seats at a facility in Germany. I can't remember many details other than it was inertia reel belts fixing that fared better overall. In particular it was one of the cheapest, tackiest-looking bit of tat on the market that came second.
The test was done on some crash rig thingy using high speed photography to show the position of the infant's head during deceleration. Filmed against a target in the background on which there were areas indicated where the head should or shouldn't go and points awarded/deducted accordingly.
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Sorry HJ, but that is complete and utter poppycock!
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I was extremely surprised to see HJ's comment too. I've recently bought a car seat [Britax First Class Si]. I don't have ISOFIX mountings in our car [Toyota Rav4], and have recently been using the seat in an X-Type saloon and an Almera hatchvback [fortunately the baby is only 8 weeks old and was unaware of the shame involved in travelling in her grandfather's pale green Almera!]
The Britax seat is designed to be fixed with an inertia reel belt. If fitting with an inertia reel was unsafe then would Britax still be making them??
If you don't have ISOFIX in every single car you might ever own / use, then you need a seat that can be secured with a seatbelt.
I think there should be some retraction / clarification in next Saturday's DT.
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Despite having Isofix on both our cars we couldn't find an Isofix seat to fit them. What does HJ suggest now? We have two belt fastened seats, a Recaro and a Maxi Cosi and both are held in tighter than a person ever is. If my belt was as tight I would have crushed ribs.
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I didn't read HJ's original comments so can't give my opinion on them as such, other than agreeing with what has already been posted about car seats.
However if his quote was being applied to booster seats I could see where he is coming from, but I don't know what the alternative is?
Some boosters I have seen have "hooks" on the edges that the lap part of the seatbelt loops through to hold child and booster seat in place. However many others don't have this feature and, in my opinion, are no more safer than sitting a couple of cushions under your child. Especially if the shape at the rear does not sit easy with the rear of your seat, then child's bum can slowly push the booster away from the seat which could ultimately result in the child also being pushed out from under the seatbelt.
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2007 Seat Altea XL 2.0 TDI (140) Stylance
2005 Skoda Fabia vrS
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There's more to boosters than just height, Bobby. The seats are hard in order to locate the child's pelvis correctly relative to the lap part part of the belt - so that the belt rests on the bones, not the soft tissues of the abdomen, where it would cause serious injuries in an accident. I'm amazed that two of my six-year-old's school friends have (otherwise intelligent, clued-up, professional) parents who don't get this and think a rolled-up rug or a sofa cushion will do.
That said, I doubt if anyone now is selling boosters without the horns - which, as you've described, are essential for locating the seat properly.
As for HJ's comment, I've just looked it up. The question that prompted it refers to mounting a child seat in a Smart ForTwo, but does not specify the kind of child seat to be used. HJ replies:
...it would be incredibly dangerous [to "fit a child seat that will be held by the seatbelt strap"]. If a car does not have Isofix fittings, you must use the existing seatbelt bolts to attach the correct straps to hold a child seat in place. Never, ever rely on an inertia-reel belt to locate a child seat.
The answer may be intended to apply only to the Smart but it doesn't read that way. If I've read it right, this amazes me and I'd like to see the reasoning it's based on. It seems incredible in effect to encourage owners to tamper with one safety-critical device in order to fit another. I've been through all the various child-seat stages with my own children and read carefully the advice from RoSPA and others on each one and I've never seen anything like this. I hope HJ will clarify this before people over-react and attempt DIY modifications to their seat belt mountings.
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It's a few years since we owned a smart, but smart did supply a frame which bolted onto the seat and into the floor which then accepted a smart car seat. Part of installing the seat also involved turning off the passenger airbag. Like all dealer fit accssories it was expensive, but IIRC use of other seats was not recommended.
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Despite many comments about a universally agreed isofix standard coming soon, in the press in the past, there still seems to be no industry standard isofix system agreed between ALL seat manufacturers and ALL car manufacturers.
Some cars which are listed as having isofix actually will not take all isofix child seats.
You can get 1 pt, 2 pt and 3pt isofix systems. Even if you have an isofix seat that fits your car, will it fit your "other" car if you have one or the grandparents car?
What is needed is EU legistation that enforces a single industry standard for seat fitment.
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All I'll say is that we use Britax seatbelt-retained seats and if fitted correctly with the belt properly tightened up through the adjuster (and used in cars for which Britax say they are OK) they are rock-solid.
Also, seatbelts are designed to restrain full-grown adults so I can't see how the mechanism would have difficulty with the weight of seat and child.
IIRC the person asking the question wanted to know if they could use a particular Britax seat in a type of car for which Britax themselves had said the seat wasn't suitable. Did they really think HJ was going to tell them something different from the manufacturer?
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Have any of the Fords got ISO yet ?
We have a Britax ISO bought 6 months ago for the Clio but just a normal Seat belt held one in the Focus which doesn't feel half as secure as the one in the Clio.
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>>just a normal Seat belt held one in the Focus
What's a Spanish car maker doing putting seat belts in Fords?
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IanW - if it doesn't feel as secure it's not fitted properly. Pull the belt HARD - i.e. imagine you are in a tug of war - grab the belt with both hands and push back with your feet. You will need someone else to fasten the securing clip on the seat.
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HJ,
Any comments?
Thanks.
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