Hi guys, one of my mates is looking for a cheap Japanese diesel car. He's not sure whether to go for Nissan Primera or Mitsubishi Carisma. He could get both of these with around 100k miles on them within his budget. We know nothing about Nissan or Mitsubishi diesels. I've had Primera petrol and he had a Carisma petrol in the past and they both were utterly reliable.
He basically needs a car mainly for motorway driving (Bedford to Harrow) so he wants something that very cheap to run, reliable and somewhat comfy. Thanks!
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not sure about the whole range of Mitsuibishis but the 2 litre derv that we have is a VAG one (although gearbox is Mitsu)
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Can't comment on the Carisma but I had a Primera 2.2DCi and it was rubbish. Engine was noisy, car was tinny and overall it was nothing like as good as any of the 5 various Datsuns and Nissans my Dad had, including the original 1990H-reg Primera.
I'd go as far as suggesting one of the last of the old shape Primera 2.0 petrols would be a better choice than either of the above. They'll do 40ish on a run and no diesel turbo bits to blow up and cost far more than the fuel saved in the meantime! Same goes for last of the old Mondeo 2.0's. HJ ran one of those and said almost all faults had been ironed out by the end.
How about something French if you definitely want to go diesel. Xantia diesel is supposed to be cheap yet good I understand. 306HDi maybe?
Good luck
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I still don't know how people can call an engine that can propel cars as heavy as Almera to 60 in 8.2 seconds and is highly remappable - a "rubbish". Especially that old Nissan diesels, the CD17 and CD20 from early nineties era were just so slow and dull in comparison.
Anyway. Carisma DI-D vs. Primera dCI. Surprisingly, despite its name, out of the two, the DI-D is Renaults F9Q belt driven engine in disquise (Renault Espace, Laguna etc), and very frenchy sounding "dCi" is Nissan's own, chain driven design. Even more surprisingly, the latter seems to be less reliable...
Primera will be noticeably stronger, faster and more relaxed as its paired with better 6 speed gearbox. It's also bigger, more stable and much, much better equipped. Trim levels in UK sold Carsimas were scandal (especially considering trims available elswhere), you will never come across climate control, stereos are cheap aftermarket 1din affairs, even in "Elegance" trim Carima offers one of the worst leather interiors on this side of the Lada factory and silver painted plastics to match. Mitsubishi on the other hand feels lighter, is a tad less ugly of the two mongrels and is easier to park.
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[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
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Read: If you are looking for a car with an engine as reliable as you're used to, you've come to the wrong place with either of these cars.
Both are fault-prone, and in fact both cars in general are deficient in the reliability department in general compared to their Japanese peers.
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Hello,
v0n - actually I described the whole car as rubbish, not just the engine. I stand by that statement. The quality of the car was no match for the 80's and 90's Nissans we had in the family. Sorry if that's not what you want to hear but that was my ownership experience and having experienced both I am in the perfect position to compare old skool Nissans with the current Renault crop. There are widely reported and problems with the 2.2DCi engine all over the internet, so it's right that MazMan is made aware of potentially huge costs in the event of a failure on that engine.
As I said before - no experience on the Carisma so didn't comment on it.
Still think a 2.0 repmobile petrol will be cheaper place to park Mazmans money in this case.
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Guys his budget is around £1500 so he'll be able to get Nissan Primera 2.0TD which I believe is Nissan's own engine and Mitsubishi Carisma 1.9 TD (don't know who manufactured these).
What other Japanese options he's got with that sorts of budget.
They've got another car in the family so this would purely be used by him for commuting and would hardly ever drive it locally.
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Mmm...
Toyata Carina or Avensis - 1.8lean burn Avensis is economical.
Maybe older Honda Accord?
Mazda 626
Don't rule out petrols. Remember it's only one big turbo diesel bill and you'll lose far more than savings gained from higher diesel mpg. Petrols are also cheaper to buy and I wonder if the old Primera 2.0TD is any more economical on a run than the 2.0 chain-cam petrol of that era.
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Guys his budget is around £1500 so he'll be able to get Nissan Primera 2.0TD which I believe is Nissan's own engine and Mitsubishi Carisma 1.9 TD
The old TD Primera was a popular taxi, mainly because the engine would do silly mileages without breaking. Wasn't hugely economical to run, and was as noisy and unrefined as they come, not to mention slow. Didn't even have the normal Nissan advantage of a chain-driven camshaft. Tell him to buy a petrol Primera of the same vintage, saving himself money and hassle. Even the 1.6 petrol was vastly faster than the diesel, and will do 40mpg on a run.
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Originally posted by Jase:v0n - actually I described the whole car as rubbish not just the engine. I stand by that statement. The quality of the car was no match for the 80's and 90's Nissans we had in the family.
I actually agree with that.
Orginally posted by MazMan
Guys his budget is around £1500 so he'll be able to get Nissan Primera 2.0TD which I believe is Nissan's own engine and Mitsubishi Carisma 1.9 TD (don't know who manufactured these).
I personally dislike every bit of CD20 + turbo as used in older Primeras. There are just no redeeming features in them - they are neither flexible, nor economical, slow and short in power. Turbo lag of unmeasurable proportions and massive flat spots all over the place and short bursts of usable torque around 3000 rpm. Very old school unit. Had the same engine in Largo and it didn't work well either. I think they also used them in Serenas.
Old Carisma TD had F8Q under bonnet - again, Renault made. Think R19, R21 diesels. Loud, not particularly fast, paired with notchy gearbox.
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[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
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"Both are fault-prone, and in fact both cars in general are deficient in the reliability department in general compared to their Japanese peers."
I can't agree with this, from my experience. I've had a 2000 petrol Carisma for nearly 6 years. Only 2 faults - first, throttle body went after five years. I'd been using cheap petrol. It's actually a Volvo part. Mitsubishi immediately offered to go halves on the cost of replacement, even though the car was well out of warranty. Secondly, last year a front spring snapped - guy at the garage said he'd never seen that before. I think it's due to the vast number of speed bumps I have to pass every day.
I had the brake pads done for the MOT, but apart from the odd wiper and tyre, it has been a very reliable and cheap car to run. It's boring and I really fancy a change, but I'm conscious that I could easily spend £5-6k and get a car that's less reliable than the one I've got.
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The Mitsubishi Carisma - proof that the Japanese do have a sense of irony!
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The Mitsubishi Carisma - proof that the Japanese do have a sense of irony!
It gets better. Mitsubishi Evo is marketed in most countries as Lancer Evolution, pretending to be "upgraded" version of mundane Lancer, even though in terms of design they probably share two radio knobs, if that, among themselves.
In mid to late nineties Mitsubishi sold Evos mostly as Lancers - in UK for example, the base of Lancer range was... Australian made estate car. But on the continent, in countries that never sold any Lancer models, Evo V and VI was marketed as "evolution" of... Carisma. So, you would walk in to Mitsubishi showroom somewhere in Finland and to your left you had regular Carisma GLS in its non colour coded, rubber strip, plastic wheel trims, 90bhp glory and to the right you had Carisma GT Tommi Makinen Edition, which looked nothing like the previous car, drove nothing like the previous car and never even seen Dutch factory where Carismas and Volvo S40ies were made. Now that is what I call sense of humour.
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[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
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Sounds like both Nissan and Mitsubishi diesels of 90s are a BIG no no for backroomers.....I'll advise him to look elsewhere. Maybe Toyota Carina diesel or Mazda 626 diesel (if he finds any in his budget)?
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